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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
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Julia Artemis

Well-Known Member
Okay we'll see. But something just feels off about the designs. And I'd argue that all the designs you mentioned weren't that far off. But we need to see the second stage of the starters to tell for sure if the Chinese "leak" is real, from Combusken to Blaziken it made sense, same goes for Pignite to Emboar. But you're right about Samurott that was kind of bizarre and a bad design even though the actual pokemon is very good and powerful. We'll see when they show the second stage of the starters.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I totally believe they're fake. It feels they are trying to copying the style Game Freak goes for with other non starter pokemon, but it just feels off. The idea that Litten becomes a gangster/puroresu wrestler just doesn't make sense to me and Rowlet's while looking possible it just feels too overly complicated in a way they never do with their starting pokemon. They generally have the starter have fairly simple concepts and usually you can make sense of their evolution. Except maybe Oshawott, but even that wasn't as extreme as those "leaked" starter evos. My guess if they'll just be bulky versions of the starters. Perhaps Litten gains a Dark or Rock typing and Poppolio gains Fairy but doubt they'll be as complex as those photos were.

Technically the evos make plenty of sense, from how they are designed to how they relate to the actual animals.

Rowlet is said to have good eyesight, is stealthy, and can fire projectiles. His supposed evo is an archer, who have great accuracy, masters of stealth and are basically snipers, and of course fire projectiles. It even fits with the extinct creature theme that all grass starters have with it being based of a stilt-owl, an extinct bird which used to live in Hawaii, which Alola is based off of.

Litten also makes sense in two ways. One, it's bio states that it's calm, monotoned, and hides it's emotions, which is bound to change by the fact they even stated that trait. His final evo looks to be very emotional and angry, which does sound like it was forshadowed by Litten's bio. Two, tigers are pure muscle. Having Litten evolve into something muscular only makes sense to the animal. It seems to even keep it's trait of lighting itself on fire and uses that for attacks.

Popplio even makes sense. And you can put that together with the facts we know about it now. Popps is based off a performing seal, he loves to entertain so keep that trait in mind. Seals and sea lions make very loud barks and calls. They can even be harmonious. We can see in the E3 demo, that Popps will probably learn plenty of sound moves. Do you know what other creatures have harmonious voices? Sirens. Both are aquatic beings that uses sound. Back to the entertainer trait, Popplio's final form seems be another type of entertain that learns it has another skill, and that is to sing, and it knowing plenty of sound moves seems to support this. So combine Popps becoming a singer, along with how sea lions make calls, and how sirens have beautiful voices when they sing, this evo makes plenty of sense conceptually if not a brilliant origin to base it off of.

Really all of those evos make sense, even if they are fake, the artist definitely put a lot of thought in them, gamefreak levels of thought and design.
 

Wulava

danger chili pepper
Staff member
Moderator
So I decided to take the liberty of drawing curve lines on each of the starters' dex entries, to maybe see if it could provide insight to their evolutions. This is what I've discovered:

-snip-

What do you guys think?

I think you're just overthinking things. Their arrangement on the Dex is just for a beautiful group shot when you get to catch the whole evolutionary line.
Have you seen Eevee's? Eevee is on the center while the rest of its evolutions surround it.

184XOwy.png
 

Bguy7

The Dragon Lord
I really don't think we can use those Pokedex images for any hint of anything myself. We don't know nearly enough about how those things are laid out to use them as a judge as anything.
 

Robotnikthedrap

Well-Known Member
Okay we'll see. But something just feels off about the designs. And I'd argue that all the designs you mentioned weren't that far off. But we need to see the second stage of the starters to tell for sure if the Chinese "leak" is real, from Combusken to Blaziken it made sense, same goes for Pignite to Emboar. But you're right about Samurott that was kind of bizarre and a bad design even though the actual pokemon is very good and powerful. We'll see when they show the second stage of the starters.

Right you are, Artemis! Only time will tell, though I'll hardly be convinced by middles stages alone... they'll certainly give us insight into the direction of their designs; however, on more than one occasion we have been dazzled and amazed by unexpected final stages, including Blaziken and Samurott, two excellent pokemon who proved impossible to envision before hand. Oh, and we mustn't forget that the concept art is separate to the Chinese leak, hence why it's disproval odes not hinder these evolutionary possibilities.

Technically the evos make plenty of sense, from how they are designed to how they relate to the actual animals.

Rowlet is said to have good eyesight, is stealthy, and can fire projectiles. His supposed evo is an archer, who have great accuracy, masters of stealth and are basically snipers, and of course fire projectiles. It even fits with the extinct creature theme that all grass starters have with it being based of a stilt-owl, an extinct bird which used to live in Hawaii, which Alola is based off of.

Litten also makes sense in two ways. One, it's bio states that it's calm, monotoned, and hides it's emotions, which is bound to change by the fact they even stated that trait. His final evo looks to be very emotional and angry, which does sound like it was forshadowed by Litten's bio. Two, tigers are pure muscle. Having Litten evolve into something muscular only makes sense to the animal. It seems to even keep it's trait of lighting itself on fire and uses that for attacks.

Popplio even makes sense. And you can put that together with the facts we know about it now. Popps is based off a performing seal, he loves to entertain so keep that trait in mind. Seals and sea lions make very loud barks and calls. They can even be harmonious. We can see in the E3 demo, that Popps will probably learn plenty of sound moves. Do you know what other creatures have harmonious voices? Sirens. Both are aquatic beings that uses sound. Back to the entertainer trait, Popplio's final form seems be another type of entertain that learns it has another skill, and that is to sing, and it knowing plenty of sound moves seems to support this. So combine Popps becoming a singer, along with how sea lions make calls, and how sirens have beautiful voices when they sing, this evo makes plenty of sense conceptually if not a brilliant origin to base it off of.

Really all of those evos make sense, even if they are fake, the artist definitely put a lot of thought in them, gamefreak levels of thought and design.

Well spoken! I've combed over their finer cruces, and aimed to analyze the essence of their designs; I, likewise, envision them as quite plausible for a multitude of reasons. They are magnificently crafted and purposefully expressed in both concept and mien; that doesn't make them authentic or in any way validate the concepts in a manner of proof, but should they actually be leaked evolutions, none can argue against their fine aesthetic and clever execution. Everyone is free to believe whatever they choose, reasonably speaking; are they bonafide? Unlikely, but possible in lieu of evidence to the contrary. Are they fan fabrications? As of yet unprovable, but still quite plausible. There just so happens to be nothing to discredit their relevancy to this or any other discussion, though I have many unanswered questions in adjudge to this topic:

1) Has an artist come forward, admitting to their creation? Why hasn't anyone at least attempted, either for attention or misdirection?
2) Has the concept sheet been linked to anyone in particular? Any educated guesses?
3) Does anyone even know who posted it originally? I don't recall any such information... they just seemed to have appeared in the quietest fashion.
4) Has anyone at Game Freak, Nintendo or on the official twitters or web sites ever acknowledged or addressed them in any way? Informally?
5) Who would have access to such concept art or "anime test sheets?" Does anyone have any insight?
6) How would something akin to this sheet be "leaked" in the first place? It seems to be an obvious scan... could it have been copied and smuggled?

My, those questions delineated into the extreme... but there are still so many queries to address about these mysterious figures; coming from myself, no less, having been a defender of their credibility for ages now. None the less, they have captured the hearts and minds of many, as much as they have repulsed and disappointed many others. Regardless, not holding them in the highest of regards does not equate to their immediate discharge from the realm of possibility, as the only two residing factors to dispelling their authenticity at this point in time are suspicion and personal opinion. The very same notion applies to those who deem them a possible reality.

Simply put, one does not have to take a definitive side of this issue to discuss them objectively, nor does examining them compromise anyone's intellectual honesty. It's good fun, especially in the event that should they reveal themselves officially. :)
 
Last edited:

LockFelino

Sparkling Noodleboi
Well spoken! I've combed over their finer cruces, and aimed to analyze the essence of their designs; I, likewise, envision them as quite plausible for a multitude of reasons. They are magnificently crafted and purposefully expressed in both concept and mien; that doesn't make them authentic or in any way validate the concepts in a manner of proof, but should they actually be leaked evolutions, none can argue against their fine aesthetic and clever execution. Everyone is free to believe whatever they choose, reasonably speaking; are they bonafide? Unlikely, but possible in lieu of evidence to the contrary. Are they fan fabrications? As of yet unprovable, but still quite plausible. There just so happens to be nothing to discredit their relevancy to this or any other discussion, though I have many unanswered questions in adjudge to this topic:

1) Has an artist come forward, admitting to their creation? Why hasn't anyone at least attempted, either for attention or misdirection?

My memory could be spotted due to being up for around... 48 hours now. But I remember a guy on Deviantart posting individual pictures of them with a small background, he claimed he posted the original leak, but has since quietened down and doesn't respond to questions about them. Him posting them or otherwise, rumour has it the original poster (who still remains anonymous) is a friend of his, who passed on the knowledge of them to him.

For the record, I think he's full of it. Seeing as his entire gallery is taking other people's Starter concepts and other designs and just giving them a background. About as artful as the dodger on an off day.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
My memory could be spotted due to being up for around... 48 hours now. But I remember a guy on Deviantart posting individual pictures of them with a small background, he claimed he posted the original leak, but has since quietened down and doesn't respond to questions about them. Him posting them or otherwise, rumour has it the original poster (who still remains anonymous) is a friend of his, who passed on the knowledge of them to him.

For the record, I think he's full of it. Seeing as his entire gallery is taking other people's Starter concepts and other designs and just giving them a background. About as artful as the dodger on an off day.

I saw this too awhile ago when the "concept art" first came out.
 

Nuzlocker4Life

Well-Known Member
I think you're just overthinking things. Their arrangement on the Dex is just for a beautiful group shot when you get to catch the whole evolutionary line.
Have you seen Eevee's? Eevee is on the center while the rest of its evolutions surround it.

184XOwy.png

That's because Eevee has multiple evolutions involved. Bad comparison to use imo.
Come back to me when you make those leaked final evos fit into the screen.

Also, take a look at this screenshot of the concept art for the trucks for the game art:
1469863404496.png


Notice the grey rectangle? Why would the starters leaked art fail to have these, along with official evolution names? Despite being most likely anime concept art, the animators would need official Pokemon names to go with the art, not Owl3, Tiger3 etc.. This just adds further dismissal to the leaks being real.
 

Seven of Arcanine

RK9 Unit Trainer
While I'm equally dismissive of the leaked evolutions, you're wrong to dismiss Wulava's point about the Rotodex. Eevee's page clearly shows that the screen does not always simply place evolutions side by side or all on one level. The fact that Eevee has multiple evolutions is why it's a good example.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
That's because Eevee has multiple evolutions involved. Bad comparison to use imo.
Come back to me when you make those leaked final evos fit into the screen.

Also, take a look at this screenshot of the concept art for the trucks for the game art:
/snip

Notice the grey rectangle? Why would the starters leaked art fail to have these, along with official evolution names? Despite being most likely anime concept art, the animators would need official Pokemon names to go with the art, not Owl3, Tiger3 etc.. This just adds further dismissal to the leaks being real.

1) Those are trucks, not pokemon art
2) Chances still are that those evos are early concepts which is why they're names haven't been put down cause they haven't been decided.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
1) Those are trucks, not pokemon art
2) Chances still are that those evos are early concepts which is why they're names haven't been put down cause they haven't been decided.
I doubt they're early concept, given how fleshed out the Pokémon themselves are. It'd be weird to not have names for them yet.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
I doubt they're early concept, given how fleshed out the Pokémon themselves are. It'd be weird to not have names for them yet.

yea those definitely aren't early concept arts IF they were real. Especially with how simplistic past concept art has been and those end up being just like how it ends up. These are either the final things or it's fake...and it's very likely fake.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I doubt they're early concept, given how fleshed out the Pokémon themselves are. It'd be weird to not have names for them yet.

Why not flesh out concepts? Cause you'd never know if they end up being the final decision. Also I'm not sure if they come up with names before or after the designs, because I would think they would wait after to see what fits better.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Why not flesh out concepts? Cause you'd never know if they end up being the final decision. Also I'm not sure if they come up with names before or after the designs, because I would think they would wait after to see what fits better.
Because if you fleshed them out and they don't end up being the final thing, then it's basically a waste of time.

And if these are for the anime, it's quite clear that these would be the finalized concepts.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
Because if you fleshed them out and they don't end up being the final thing, then it's basically a waste of time.

And if these are for the anime, it's quite clear that these would be the finalized concepts.

Well, you have a point there. Though that still leaves the question why they are labeled as Owl3, Sea Lion3, and Tiger3, which imply that there were 2 other concepts before them.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
Well, you have a point there. Though that still leaves the question why they are labeled as Owl3, Sea Lion3, and Tiger3, which imply that there were 2 other concepts before them.

or they mean that they are the 3rd in the line of the evolution....if they were theoretically real of course.
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
Well, you have a point there. Though that still leaves the question why they are labeled as Owl3, Sea Lion3, and Tiger3, which imply that there were 2 other concepts before them.
I'm guessing the other two were probably their base forms and mid-forms.

Edit: Greninja'd.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
or they mean that they are the 3rd in the line of the evolution....if they were theoretically real of course.

I also thought that, but that would mean that Litten was labeled as a tiger from the get go, when he is just a regular kitten at this point
 
Honestly My 2 Favorite Starters are Rowlet and Popplio:

I. Reasons for faving Popplio
A. It's Adorable
B. It Needs Love
C. It's like a Sea Puppy
D. It MAY or MAY NOT become a Mermaid in his/her Final Evolution
II. Reasons for Faving Rowlet
A. It's an Owl, and I LOVE Owls
B. It's the first AVIAN Grass Starter Pokemon, and the FIRST Avian Grass/Flying type Pokemon(the OTHER Grass/flying types AREN'T Even Birds)
C. It's cute
 
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