Starter Discussion & Thread

[yuoke]

I find myself in the same boat here, especially if it does end up being Fire/Dark or Fire/Ground. It almost feels like a self aware jab at themselves for having three generations of Fire/Fighting starters.

Well it's not a funny jab or joke if that's what it is. That almost seems like a covering up excuse for lack of creativity. Of all the different things a fire cat could turn into, they just essentially just take his head, but put it on an over the top musucle head roided up body, like how they put tepig's head on emboar. Not to mention the fact that it's based on a wrestler which was also emboar.

 

[knightwolf09]

Well it's not a funny jab or joke if that's what it is. That almost seems like a covering up excuse for lack of creativity. Of all the different things a fire cat could turn into, they just essentially just take his head, but put it on an over the top musucle head roided up body, like how they put tepig's head on emboar. Not to mention the fact that it's based on a wrestler which was also emboar.

But Emboar is fat and bulky though, and a sumo wrestler. Frankly I starting to see it as more based off a thug than a wrestler lately.

 

[LockFelino]

Well it's not a funny jab or joke if that's what it is. That almost seems like a covering up excuse for lack of creativity. Of all the different things a fire cat could turn into, they just essentially just take his head, but put it on an over the top musucle head roided up body, like how they put tepig's head on emboar. Not to mention the fact that it's based on a wrestler which was also emboar.

Yes, yes. I'm quite aware of the whole "It's like Emboar" and "pasting its head on a roided up body" thing, you've said it multiple times. It's not like we can't have two Pokemon based on the same, or in this case similar things. Or else it's like "Oh sorry Greninja, we already have a frog and a ninja. Can't be made, blame Politoed and Accelgor". Not to mention Emboar and "Litten3" have different body types entirely, with Emboar being more stocky and rounded, while Litten3 is certainly a lot more lean and spry in comparison. This prompts different fighting styles rather than just "IT'S WRESTLING, THEY'RE BOTH WRESTLERS", which may be true. But not every wrestler fights in the same way. Especially heel wrestlers, which Litten 3 appears to have traits of if the smaller images are anything to go by. Illegal moves, lashing out at the commentator (in this case the Pikachu with the microphone).

 

[Alexander18]

Litten would probably be better if it evolves into Fire/Dark since Fire/Ground would be 4x weak to Water. All three starters should be able to hit each other without a 4x weakness with their primary type attacks.

 

[Bus]

Yes, yes. I'm quite aware of the whole "It's like Emboar" and "pasting its head on a roided up body" thing, you've said it multiple times. It's not like we can't have two Pokemon based on the same, or in this case similar things. Or else it's like "Oh sorry Greninja, we already have a frog and a ninja. Can't be made, blame Politoed and Accelgor". Not to mention Emboar and "Litten3" have different body types entirely, with Emboar being more stocky and rounded, while Litten3 is certainly a lot more lean and spry in comparison. This prompts different fighting styles rather than just "IT'S WRESTLING, THEY'RE BOTH WRESTLERS", which may be true. But not every wrestler fights in the same way. Especially heel wrestlers, which Litten 3 appears to have traits of if the smaller images are anything to go by. Illegal moves, lashing out at the commentator (in this case the Pikachu with the microphone).

Dude, its not just the fact that its been done, its that its the same arch type AND the same type combination on the same kind: a starter. You used a really crappy example with greninja; its no way near the same. The same for Greninja would be if there was already a ninja frog water starter and they decided to make a ninja seal water starter. its the fact that its yet another starter that has the same typing AND the same motiff that gets people riled up.

Another fire/fighting wrestler starter would be just plain stupid given all their options. Nobody is saying their can't be another fire/fighting pokemon, but the triple combination of another starter, with the same type, on a theme already used is infuriating given how creative they are with other pokemon. It doesn't matter if one is more sumo wrestler style and the other is a grappler; the fact that the rumor has them both as wrestlers is just plain uncreative and you know it. Dont defend or rationalize it, man; its irritating. You're playing defense on really annoying point. You know as well as everyone else here that it would be annoying as crap if this came out to be true and you would be disappointed.

EDIT: Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me when people defend really stupid things. Its like some people go out of their way to defend something that the entire planet knows is stupid just because they want to be different and edgy.

 

[Macabrelicious]

Well it's not a funny jab or joke if that's what it is. That almost seems like a covering up excuse for lack of creativity. Of all the different things a fire cat could turn into, they just essentially just take his head, but put it on an over the top musucle head roided up body, like how they put tepig's head on emboar. Not to mention the fact that it's based on a wrestler which was also emboar.

You're completely right about Litten3, but I don't think that's fair to Emboar. The thing still very much looks like a pig, and Emboar's a more thematically sound wrestler body shape/looks less cartoonish, and doesn't feel unnatural to me

Dude, its not just the fact that its been done, its that its the same arch type AND the same type combination on the same kind: a starter. You used a really crappy example with greninja; its no way near the same. The same for Greninja would be if there was already a ninja frog water starter and they decided to make a ninja seal water starter. its the fact that its yet another starter that has the same typing AND the same motiff that gets people riled up.

Another fire/fighting wrestler starter would be just plain stupid given all their options. Nobody is saying their can't be another fire/fighting pokemon, but the triple combination of another starter, with the same type, on a theme already used is infuriating given how creative they are with other pokemon. It doesn't matter if one is more sumo wrestler style and the other is a grappler; the fact that the rumor has them both as wrestlers is just plain uncreative and you know it. Dont defend or rationalize it, man; its irritating. You're playing defense on really annoying point. You know as well as everyone else here that it would be annoying as crap if this came out to be true and you would be disappointed.

EDIT: Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me when people defend really stupid things. Its like some people go out of their way to defend something that the entire planet knows is stupid just because they want to be different and edgy.

Damn, you really went IN

nothing but the truth though

i just wish that instead of making a joke about it they would actually do something different.

exactly

 

[LockFelino]

Dude, its not just the fact that its been done, its that its the same arch type AND the same type combination on the same kind: a starter. You used a really crappy example with greninja; its no way near the same. The same for Greninja would be if there was already a ninja frog water starter and they decided to make a ninja seal water starter. its the fact that its yet another starter that has the same typing AND the same motiff that gets people riled up.

Another fire/fighting wrestler starter would be just plain stupid given all their options. Nobody is saying their can't be another fire/fighting pokemon, but the triple combination of another starter, with the same type, on a theme already used is infuriating given how creative they are with other pokemon. It doesn't matter if one is more sumo wrestler style and the other is a grappler; the fact that the rumor has them both as wrestlers is just plain uncreative and you know it. Dont defend or rationalize it, man; its irritating. You're playing defense on really annoying point. You know as well as everyone else here that it would be annoying as crap if this came out to be true and you would be disappointed.

EDIT: Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me when people defend really stupid things. Its like some people go out of their way to defend something that the entire planet knows is stupid just because they want to be different and edgy.

Well that's your opinion, and I'd fight for your right to have it. But I'm in no way defending something for the sake of being different or "edgy", if you think I am, that's your prerogative. I just think it's a bit stupid to go "ZOMG FIRE/FIGHTING EVERYTHING WILL DIE", when we don't even know what the typing will be. If people don't like the design, they don't like the design. I can't change that and nor do I really want to. And for the record, I couldn't care any less as to who is annoyed or not by it, that's their thing to deal with. Plus there's the glaring fact that it may not even be real to begin with, as you said yourself.

 

[knightwolf09]

Dude, its not just the fact that its been done, its that its the same arch type AND the same type combination on the same kind: a starter. You used a really crappy example with greninja; its no way near the same. The same for Greninja would be if there was already a ninja frog water starter and they decided to make a ninja seal water starter. its the fact that its yet another starter that has the same typing AND the same motiff that gets people riled up.

Another fire/fighting wrestler starter would be just plain stupid given all their options. Nobody is saying their can't be another fire/fighting pokemon, but the triple combination of another starter, with the same type, on a theme already used is infuriating given how creative they are with other pokemon. It doesn't matter if one is more sumo wrestler style and the other is a grappler; the fact that the rumor has them both as wrestlers is just plain uncreative and you know it. Dont defend or rationalize it, man; its irritating. You're playing defense on really annoying point. You know as well as everyone else here that it would be annoying as crap if this came out to be true and you would be disappointed.

EDIT: Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me when people defend really stupid things. Its like some people go out of their way to defend something that the entire planet knows is stupid just because they want to be different and edgy.

Nobody ever really proved the Litten evo is Fire/Fighting though. They're just judging based on looks and freaking out in turn.

 

[clbgolden12]

Nobody ever really proved the Litten evo is Fire/Fighting though. They're just judging based on looks and freaking out in turn.

In all fairness, before the translations for the concepts came it really, REALLY seemed like a Fire/Fighting. It literally has abs, muscles, etc. Without knowing it fights dirty, pretty much everyone assumed it was Fire/Fighting.

 

[Bguy7]

Well it's not a funny jab or joke if that's what it is. That almost seems like a covering up excuse for lack of creativity. Of all the different things a fire cat could turn into, they just essentially just take his head, but put it on an over the top musucle head roided up body, like how they put tepig's head on emboar. Not to mention the fact that it's based on a wrestler which was also emboar.

To be fair, a bulky and muscular bipedal tiger isn't an unheard of motif. Just look at Tony the Tiger, he mascot of Frosted Flakes.

Dude, its not just the fact that its been done, its that its the same arch type AND the same type combination on the same kind: a starter. You used a really crappy example with greninja; its no way near the same. The same for Greninja would be if there was already a ninja frog water starter and they decided to make a ninja seal water starter. its the fact that its yet another starter that has the same typing AND the same motiff that gets people riled up.

Another fire/fighting wrestler starter would be just plain stupid given all their options. Nobody is saying their can't be another fire/fighting pokemon, but the triple combination of another starter, with the same type, on a theme already used is infuriating given how creative they are with other pokemon. It doesn't matter if one is more sumo wrestler style and the other is a grappler; the fact that the rumor has them both as wrestlers is just plain uncreative and you know it. Dont defend or rationalize it, man; its irritating. You're playing defense on really annoying point. You know as well as everyone else here that it would be annoying as crap if this came out to be true and you would be disappointed.

EDIT: Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me when people defend really stupid things. Its like some people go out of their way to defend something that the entire planet knows is stupid just because they want to be different and edgy.

How about this, it is your opinion that it is uncreative. Maybe you think that, and that's your prerogative, but it's certainly not objective fact, so you really have no right getting upset over someone else, with a different opinion, attempting to defend a design that they think is alright. Debate all you like, but don't lash out at them.

Personally, I agree with LockFelino, while this supposed Litten Evolution may be similar to Emboar, but I don't think it's nearly close enough to warrant any significant complaint.

 

[Seven of Arcanine]

Opinions always seem to be the end of somebody's world.

I'd say both sides have very valid reasons to think as they do in this case. There are varying degrees in how one thing can be similar to another thing, and everyone is going to have a different point in which those thing become "too similar," and it probably comes down to how specific we see their defining traits. Those who get no more specific than "wrestler" are right to say they are so similar. Doesn't make those who get more specific wrong to say sumos and heels are far enough apart.

 

[Robotnikthedrap]

Dude, its not just the fact that its been done, its that its the same arch type AND the same type combination on the same kind: a starter. You used a really crappy example with greninja; its no way near the same. The same for Greninja would be if there was already a ninja frog water starter and they decided to make a ninja seal water starter. its the fact that its yet another starter that has the same typing AND the same motiff that gets people riled up.

Another fire/fighting wrestler starter would be just plain stupid given all their options. Nobody is saying their can't be another fire/fighting pokemon, but the triple combination of another starter, with the same type, on a theme already used is infuriating given how creative they are with other pokemon. It doesn't matter if one is more sumo wrestler style and the other is a grappler; the fact that the rumor has them both as wrestlers is just plain uncreative and you know it. Dont defend or rationalize it, man; its irritating. You're playing defense on really annoying point. You know as well as everyone else here that it would be annoying as crap if this came out to be true and you would be disappointed.

EDIT: Sorry to rant, but it really bugs me when people defend really stupid things. Its like some people go out of their way to defend something that the entire planet knows is stupid just because they want to be different and edgy.

Defend "really stupid things"? "The entire planet"? Hardly, good Bus; the whole of opinion, should it not include the topic of human suffering, is subject entirely to personal taste and predilection. Yours or otherwise... so, it was most gracious of you to apologize for said statement in advance. Everyone should be so polite!

Opinions always seem to be the end of somebody's world.

I'd say both sides have very valid reasons to think as they do in this case. There are varying degrees in how one thing can be similar to another thing, and everyone is going to have a different point in which those thing become "too similar," and it probably comes down to how specific we see their defining traits. Those who get no more specific than "wrestler" are right to say they are so similar. Doesn't make those who get more specific wrong to say sumos and heels are far enough apart.

Well stated, Seven of Arcanine. However, I feel it once again necessary, though I have must often repeat myself for those in the "anti fire and fighting starter league", to aid in dispelling the "wrestler" Emboar nomenclature, as it is fairly inaccurate and far too often thrown around to vindicate gratuitous dissatisfaction with Game Freak's creative processes. Merely three articles of association bind the poor creature to this branding, and nothing more:

1) It wears a "singlet", which "may" be used for wrestling purposes, though is used more for aesthetic in this case
2) It is of the fighting variety; which, of and in itself, is a massive category with many different styles of combat with real world application (other than wrestling)
3) It's pre evolution, Pignite, is clearly wrestler inspired, yet Emboar, who is almost exclusively bulky, has little to do with the "sumo" fighting style

Other than that which I have listed, it is a large, boar like creature, inspired by a warrior monk of Chinese literature and mythology. "Fighting type" applies to so much more than the general populace seems to openly recognize. It is plain to see why many wouldn't so easily grasp the extent of Emboar's design, so I would never bare ill will for this misunderstanding. Still, I do all in my power to make others aware of this information, for the good of the Pokémon community.

Lord EDIT of Edington: Honestly; does no one deem the superb intensity of the "tiger headed wrestler" appropriate, regardless of past fire evolutionary choices? Judge the design and concept for what they are, but "unoriginality" is groundless in consideration to quality, implementation, and possible future success. Society always claims to be moving away from judgemental superficiality and into fair acceptance, and yet so many would condemn Game Freak's actions, solely for the sake of personal taste and senseless deviation from previous coincidence or pattern. Should it prove to be outstanding in battle, will it not meet with positive reception? Of course it will, design condemned or otherwise.

Out of curiosity, is there a logical basis for this, or a definitive measure of importance? Surely, a "fire cat" could evolve into countless creatures; however, the same case could be made for ANY Pokémon; and as well all should recognize, not every design would suit the entirety of the fan base- Game Freak is no doubt painfully aware of this, and yet they press on, independent of "popular opinion". I've always respected them to an immense degree because of that, friends.

 

[2dtyplosion]

All I want is a Quadraped fire/dark tiger for Litten. It seems like grass and water starters get a good variety, why is the fire starter always a biped muscle thing? (I know Delphox doesn't have muscles but it's still biped and slightly humanoid.)

 

[knightwolf09]

All I want is a Quadraped fire/dark tiger for Litten. It seems like grass and water starters get a good variety, why is the fire starter always a biped muscle thing? (I know Delphox doesn't have muscles but it's still biped and slightly humanoid.)

Charizard and Emboar wer chubby, Blaziken and Infernape were slim, and Typhlosion was an animalistic shape. Not to mention all of them are based off bipedal animals, except for Typhlosion, who is based off an animal that had potential to only stand on it's hind legs, but it does also move on four. It was only Emboar where they started to break a bit from realism. So again, why complain about bipeds now?

 

[Robotnikthedrap]

All I want is a Quadraped fire/dark tiger for Litten. It seems like grass and water starters get a good variety, why is the fire starter always a biped muscle thing? (I know Delphox doesn't have muscles but it's still biped and slightly humanoid.)

An earnest desire! I personally find the "alleged concept" of Litten's evolution to be artistically pleasing, but make no mistake; for the sake of you, 2dtyplosion, and all others who yearn for the "utopian ussuri" that you have been dreaming of, I most sincerely hope that your collective vision comes to fruition against the thrilling odds which plague you! Many I personally know outside of this forum will be crushed should Litten evolve into the aforementioned concept... still, I harp on these undeniable facts to better prepare everyone for this inevitable possibility. The design is sound, and the likelihood is a reality, for both quadruped and biped, but it is also unhealthy to allow Pokémon designs to so negatively impact one's feelings. It's all subjective, you know.

A "Ussuri", by the by: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e4/f1/8f/e4f18f304d3a4033c3a0f0e1fe8ce1c5.jpg
An adorable creature, to say the least.

 

[2dtyplosion]

Charizard and Emboar wer chubby, Blaziken and Infernape were slim, and Typhlosion was an animalistic shape. Not to mention all of them are based off bipedal animals, except for Typhlosion, who is based off an animal that had potential to only stand on it's hind legs, but it does also move on four. It was only Emboar where they started to break a bit from realism. So again, why complain about bipeds now?

I actually don't mind bipeds. The Cyndaquil line is my favorite. I also don't see the problem with some variety?

 

[Lykouros]

So again, why complain about bipeds now?

I make no claim to speak for everyone who has an issue with the bipedal fire starters, but I'd like to add that the issue likely doesn't lie solely with this supposed leak. I was alright with the bipedal fire starters up until 4th gen, and make no mistake, they do each have their own theme. However, 4th, 5th, and 6th gen all left me wanting for a fully quadruped starter, despite enjoying those concepts in their time. Come 7th gen, myself and many others are still hoping for a quadruped starter.

It's become so predictable that when the starters for 7th gen were released, I already found myself apprehensively rejecting Litten, despite loving its base concept. Of course, it's final evolution will have other qualities that many are sure to enjoy, but the bipedal theme is so predominant I'm afraid those other qualities may not stick with me. I suspect that others who have commented on this particular evolution are feeling similar.

Edit: My signature also reminded me that Typhlosion doesn't bother me so much because it does return to being quadruped when it attacks, and Charizard is flying in his 3D animation. I also appreciate that Blaziken sometimes stands on one leg to give its pose more dynamic, and perhaps if the other fire starters also adopted some unique stances I could more easily see past the bipedal trait.

 

[Robotnikthedrap]

I actually don't mind bipeds. The Cyndaquil line is my favorite. I also don't see the problem with some variety?

Indeed; variety is the seasoning of existence, as it were. However, Pokémon are not governed by such an unnatural principal, and they are not, in all probability, designed in the passion of sudden inspiration. A great deal of thought is put into each creature, no doubt with the franchise as a whole in consideration with each and every addition to it's roster. I feel confident in Game Freak's judgment, and while I'd much rather walk away all the more satisfied with all pocket monsters, to sacrifice unadulterated satisfaction for balance, artistic integrity, and more enthusiastic attention to detail as well as quality control, is a sacrifice I relish in conceding.

 

[2dtyplosion]

I just hope with designs like Tapu koko and mimikyu that gf would be thinking outside the box.

 

[Robotnikthedrap]

I just hope with designs like Tapu koko and mimikyu that gf would be thinking outside the box.

Ah, yes; always it is my sustained trepidation that Pokémon may one day abstain from it's comfortable boundaries! Surely, too; should any of these rumored "leaks" hold true, it'd result in quite the outsourced box rational!

Still, I firmly believe that the crude, wrestling Litten persona would result in a devil of a good time, should it come to fruition! Such a personality, and precious in it's own right!