Starter Discussion & Thread

[BlitzGirl41]

(My Lopunny comment was directed at an earlier comment that said it had a feminine curves... I was pointing out that it's fluffiness is what's endearing about it to a girly girl like me, and that it's body actually doesn't have female curves if you look at the official artwork and anime. Not saying it doesn't have a female inspiration! But it doesn't have female curves. It has a round tear drop body impossible on any human. Thanks for the lore update though, that's really cool!)

I don't think we can all agree that seals and sea lions are mostly known for their male evolutionary adaptations? I don't even know what that means, or why that means Poppliovely can't be a mermaid if that's it's absolute final design (which I'm like 98% sure is but not willing to bet money).

I think we all get to wrapped up in science and game ratios...like this is a game everyone. It draws from real science, but also myths and lore across the world, it's own lore, and what's marketable. All of this goes in combination to create the games and the Pokémon. It won't perfectly match science, or politics, or mythology.

Sometimes the Pokémon have a distinct female look. Sometimes it has a male. Part of your view of its gender is based on where you grew up, your culture, your personal preferences. And it's totally okay to not like a design, or want a different one personally, or to love a design and praise it, and Share why. But ultimately, we can't say that something is objectively wrong. We can't declare subjective opinion as fact.

Poppliovely has many features that would make it stereotypically female to many viewers (long hair, pink colouring, frills). It seems based on a mermaid at least partially (a female mythical creature). And it's okay to love that, or hate that. But if it is real, it's what is, and it's how GF decided to make it, gender ratio and all. Say why you like it, or why you don't, but that doesn't mean it should or shouldn't be anything other then what it is. GF made it, they decided everything about it, it's their mon. Ultimately, it's not a mermaid, or a seal, or what have you, it's a Pokémon. Specifically, it is the Pokémon Poppliovely (or whatever it's name will be).

I don't like Liften. I've given several reasons why I don't, but at the end of the day, if it's real it's real, and many people genuinely enjoy the Pokémon. Its not offending anyone with racial satire as far as I'm aware. I can say I don't like it, but I can't say I'm more right than others who do, or that my opinion should have any sway over GF's final aesthetic decisions.

I may not like the supposed Popplio3 form, but I also have never said it's wrong for anyone to like it, or for it to exist. It's just so different from anything we've really had for starter evos before. Most have either been so-called "masculine", or neutral. Sure, people could argue that Meganium seems "feminine" (I personally don't), but nothing's been on the level as this drawing of Popplio3 we have seen. It's something that, if real, is just hard to get used to because it's out of the norm for a starter Pokemon. In addition, I've also made no claims, such a yourself, that my view of Popplio3 is "right", either.

And as for that post earlier about seals and sea lions, holy crap, please don't remind me about male elephant seals! Those things scare the crap out of me even now that I'm 26. Every time I see a nature documentary and they are in it, I feel so repulsed by the males and their bloody fighting. :C Officially the scariest seal on earth...

 

[Aromatic Mist]

The gender discussion may be moot if it turns out that each starter has a split evolution for its final form. For all we know, if it ends up being true, we could have a more feminine, sleek Litten3 and a more masculine creepy-clown Popplio3. Rowlett seems kind of gender neutral, so its kind of left out lol.

Not only does that seem incredibly unlikely due to the fact the starters only take three slots and forms never differ that much, it also means applying human gender norms to animals which is IMO pointless, animals are too simple to have genders and their appearances don't normally confine to human norms (male birds tend to be hella flamboyant)

Also clown Popplio h as so far just been a fan observation, at most it just seems to draw from multiple performer types.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

....except Ghost Slugs don't have this claimed "red horn" that you are claiming it has. Any google image search just yields a pure white slug. The closest thing, red-triangle slugs, are in no way a basis for Ralts and Gardevoir. Gardevoir's line is not a slug. It is not a gastropod. It is a humanoid, likely based on mages or knights (as the Japanese name is Sirknight and it is supposed to be wearing some kind of tabard, but many people confuse it as a dress.)

Also, Milotic is not based on an oarfish. It does not remotely look like one to begin with (red dorsal fins and elongated body being exceptions), so where did you get this conclusion?

Also, just because it looks like it has braids or other such things does not make it instantly based on Gaelic warriors. This is like me saying anything dealing with axes must be based on Vikings. I guess Haxorus is obviously a Viking, because it's got axeheads for a face.

So, if these Pokemon are like this, why can't Pop3 be feminine? It's quite literally half-based on seals and the other being mermaids, which could mean it's just a selkie.

See them mating, they have a needle near their left side of their head, it has a stripe of red, most moluscs have it yellow or white.

And yes I freaking mentioned Selkies ad Nauseum and the Walrus princess, so yes from a myth standpoint they do have a basis, biologically speaking pinipedes tend to be famous for the males and their adaptations.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

See them mating, they have a needle near their left side of their head, it has a stripe of red, most moluscs have it yellow or white.

And yes I freaking mentioned Selkies ad Nauseum and the Walrus princess, so yes from a myth standpoint they do have a basis, biologically speaking pinipedes tend to be famous for the males and their adaptations.

So? Why should a freaking fictional, magical fairy(?) seal have to take fit well known IRL animal characteristics? Especially after we had the similar Walrein like that was heavily inspired by male seals?

Also, can you please stop mentioning animal genitalia and sexual activity? Not only is it frankly unsettling, it's also totally inappropriate as the forums are for a game that's played by young children! I know I haven't had a perfect track record here, but jeez, too freaking far much?

Also, people here don't seem to be able to understand change is a thing when this Gen has brought so much. No offense to anyone with mental disorders and illnesses that make you oblivious or distasteful of change as this is more aimed at people able to process it, but for goodness sake my little sister can grasp the concept of change and she's probably at least half the age of most of you.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

I may not like the supposed Popplio3 form, but I also have never said it's wrong for anyone to like it, or for it to exist. It's just so different from anything we've really had for starter evos before. Most have either been so-called "masculine", or neutral. Sure, people could argue that Meganium seems "feminine" (I personally don't), but nothing's been on the level as this drawing of Popplio3 we have seen. It's something that, if real, is just hard to get used to because it's out of the norm for a starter Pokemon. In addition, I've also made no claims, such a yourself, that my view of Popplio3 is "right", either.

And as for that post earlier about seals and sea lions, holy crap, please don't remind me about male elephant seals! Those things scare the crap out of me even now that I'm 26. Every time I see a nature documentary and they are in it, I feel so repulsed by the males and their bloody fighting. :C Officially the scariest seal on earth...

Oh, I didn't mean to call out anyone specifically, just remind a general air not to call absolutes on any side. Sorry if you felt that was directed at you!

 

[Thepowaofhax]

I may not like the supposed Popplio3 form, but I also have never said it's wrong for anyone to like it, or for it to exist. It's just so different from anything we've really had for starter evos before. Most have either been so-called "masculine", or neutral. Sure, people could argue that Meganium seems "feminine" (I personally don't), but nothing's been on the level as this drawing of Popplio3 we have seen. It's something that, if real, is just hard to get used to because it's out of the norm for a starter Pokemon. In addition, I've also made no claims, such a yourself, that my view of Popplio3 is "right", either.

Just because something never happened before doesn't mean it can happen. After all, during pre-X/Y, everyone doubted Talonflame until the game was released just because it deviated from the norm of the regional birds.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

So? Why should a freaking fictional, magical fairy(?) seal have to take fit well known IRL animal characteristics? Especially after we had the similar Walrein like that was heavily inspired by male seals?

Also, can you please stop mentioning animal genitalia and sexual activity? Not only is it frankly unsettling, it's also totally inappropriate as the forums are for a game that's played by young children! I know I haven't had a perfect track record here, but jeez, too freaking far much?

Also, people here don't seem to be able to understand change is a thing when this Gen has brought so much. No offense to anyone with mental disorders and illnesses that make you oblivious or distasteful of change as this is more aimed at people able to process it, but for goodness sake my little sister can grasp the concept of change and she's probably at least half the age of most of you.

Well, genitalia is an adaptation, if we check animals most developed secondary gender characteristics to improve their breeding chances, from flamboyant birds to bulky seals it's always about sex.

I remember the ghost slug horn because we saw them mate in captivity, it's honestly beautiful how they make a thread of slime and balance on it as they mate, there is nothing wrong with it, we'll except the "female" eating the "male" genitalia for nutrients that will help with the egg laying.

 

[clbgolden12]

Legit question here, what are we even arguing about? At first it was the leak's legitimacy, then (another) feminine Popplio, are now Popplio3's/Gardevoir's basis? I'm lost.

 

[BlitzGirl41]

So? Why should a freaking fictional, magical fairy(?) seal have to take fit well known IRL animal characteristics? Especially after we had the similar Walrein like that was heavily inspired by male seals?

Also, can you please stop mentioning animal genitalia and sexual activity? Not only is it frankly unsettling, it's also totally inappropriate as the forums are for a game that's played by young children! I know I haven't had a perfect track record here, but jeez, too freaking far much?

Also, people here don't seem to be able to understand change is a thing when this Gen has brought so much. No offense to anyone with mental disorders and illnesses that make you oblivious or distasteful of change as this is more aimed at people able to process it, but for goodness sake my little sister can grasp the concept of change and she's probably at least half the age of most of you.

I've never been under the impression that their comments were inappropriate. They are just talking about real life and not being dirty about it. Heck, even nature documentaries that show animals mating only ever get a TV-PG rating in the US (I am not assuming everyone here is from the US).

Oh, I didn't mean to call out anyone specifically, just remind a general air not to call absolutes on any side. Sorry if you felt that was directed at you!

Oh no, don't worry, I wasn't assuming that! I just was agreeing with you and giving examples of my own viewpoint.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Legit question here, what are we even arguing about? At first it was the leak's legitimacy, then (another) feminine Popplio, are now Popplio3's/Gardevoir's basis? I'm lost.

Gender in Pokémon, some people apparently think that secondary sexual characteristics developing as part of selective evolution aren't important on an animal morphology and thus it's Pokemon impersonation.

Basically people just want people to like the same design they do or hate the same and we try to validate our point of view with biology stuff.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

Gender in Pokémon, some people apparently think that secondary sexual characteristics developing as part of selective evolution aren't important on an animal morphology and thus it's Pokemon impersonation.

Basically people just want people to like the same design they do or hate the same and we try to validate our point of view with biology stuff.

I'm not saying it's not important, I'm saying that people are comparing apples to oranges in regarding to the sexual dimorphism on Pokemon. Most have been talking about it purely in regard of human sexual dimorphism, with some saying that it should be more like a Pinniped, even though we see that Pop3 has a mythological basis as well (mermaid, siren or selkie.)

 

[clbgolden12]

Gender in Pokémon, some people apparently think that secondary sexual characteristics developing as part of selective evolution aren't important on an animal morphology and thus it's Pokemon impersonation.

Basically people just want people to like the same design they do or hate the same and we try to validate our point of view with biology stuff.

Ah... Okeh then.

Doesn't seem like my type of topic, so I'll just spectate and silently root for users taking part in this.

 

[BlitzGirl41]

Gender in Pokémon, some people apparently think that secondary sexual characteristics developing as part of selective evolution aren't important on an animal morphology and thus it's Pokemon impersonation.

Basically people just want people to like the same design they do or hate the same and we try to validate our point of view with biology stuff.

I wouldn't say that anyone is trying to force us to like Popplio3. They're just as passionate about their opinions as the rest of us are.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

Anyone want to speculate with me on shiny colours for the base forms?

I'm kinda worried they are gonna be subtle differences. I love drastic colour changes...I liked fennekin's shiny more than Chespin and Froakie's for example.

I'm hoping Litten gets a full colour change not just like blue stripes instead of red. I secretly want purple popplio, because purple is my favorite colour! I have no idea where to take Rowlett, I feel like he'd be more like Chespin with just darker Brown where he's green.

 

[LockFelino]

Anyone want to speculate with me on shiny colours for the base forms?

I'm kinda worried they are gonna be subtle differences. I love drastic colour changes...I liked fennekin's shiny more than Chespin and Froakie's for example.

I'm hoping Litten geta a full colour change not just like blue stripes instead of red. I secretly want purple popplio, because purple is my favorite colour! I have no idea where to take Rowlett, I feel like he's be more like Chespin with just darker Brown.

I'm kind of scared that Rowlet will just be treated as one of those "edgy" Pokemon and get given pure black for its shiny, where I can actually see its colours being inverted. Its main body being green, and stuff like its bowtie being the beige colour of its regular body, as for Litten, I wouldn't mind it getting a shiny pattern that makes it look like a white tiger.

 

[clbgolden12]

Anyone want to speculate with me on shiny colours for the base forms?

I'm kinda worried they are gonna be subtle differences. I love drastic colour changes...I liked fennekin's shiny more than Chespin and Froakie's for example.

I'm hoping Litten gets a full colour change not just like blue stripes instead of red. I secretly want purple popplio, because purple is my favorite colour! I have no idea where to take Rowlett, I feel like he'd be more like Chespin with just darker Brown where he's green.

I'm still betting Popplio's shiny is pink. Even before I saw the leaked final forms, it just seemed like the color they'd give it.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Anyone want to speculate with me on shiny colours for the base forms?

I'm kinda worried they are gonna be subtle differences. I love drastic colour changes...I liked fennekin's shiny more than Chespin and Froakie's for example.

I'm hoping Litten gets a full colour change not just like blue stripes instead of red. I secretly want purple popplio, because purple is my favorite colour! I have no idea where to take Rowlett, I feel like he'd be more like Chespin with just darker Brown where he's green.

I want purple owl, green cat and hot pink seal.

No seriously, I want those colors.

Most blue pokemon change into purple pink shades(quaggy blastoise), black red and brown go hot pink or dark green, green barely changes in shades or goes blue but I freaking want a purple owl!

 

[Thepowaofhax]

Anyone want to speculate with me on shiny colours for the base forms?

I'm kinda worried they are gonna be subtle differences. I love drastic colour changes...I liked fennekin's shiny more than Chespin and Froakie's for example.

I'm hoping Litten gets a full colour change not just like blue stripes instead of red. I secretly want purple popplio, because purple is my favorite colour! I have no idea where to take Rowlett, I feel like he'd be more like Chespin with just darker Brown where he's green.

I actually hope they make Rowlet's shiny colorations based on old Mongolian armor, as Mongolian cavalry were infamous for their marksmanship, so probably more of a leather brown, dark gray and perhaps a silk white to reference the silk vests that were issued to Genghis Khan's horsemen.

 

[.Aerodactyl.]

Haha! Well the suggestions of green and pink are pretty safe XD Aren't like, most shines green or pink?

I do love the white tiger idea! I never considered an edgy Pokémon, but it does happen. We have black Charizard and black Greninja... Blue Emboar, etc. Rowlett does seem to be the MVP this gen, even to GF. Alternatively, they could just make Litten jet black and make his stripes black...

 

[Rowlet]

Anyone want to speculate with me on shiny colours for the base forms?

I'm kinda worried they are gonna be subtle differences. I love drastic colour changes...I liked fennekin's shiny more than Chespin and Froakie's for example.

I'm hoping Litten gets a full colour change not just like blue stripes instead of red. I secretly want purple popplio, because purple is my favorite colour! I have no idea where to take Rowlett, I feel like he'd be more like Chespin with just darker Brown where he's green.

I said it awhile back but I'd love if Rowlet's shiny had the colors of Autumn