Starter Discussion & Thread

[Julia Artemis]

I agree with this (to some as extent, as I'd barely say Popplio3 is "vague" when it comes to its feminine qualities). I think Popplio3 is a bit too feminine for its gender ratio as well, but I don't plan on picking Popplio anyways, so there's no reason to bring it up every page or two.

Exactly I hate Litten for similar reasons, I feel it's over designed and looks like a total mess, and trying way to hard to look edgy and "cool" but I'm not going to pick it for those reasons but I don't need to constantly mention this and just won't pick it. If I get both games I'll pick Popolio and Rowlet

 

[knightwolf09]

Exactly I hate Litten for similar reasons, I feel it's over designed and looks like a total mess, and trying way to hard to look edgy and "cool" but I'm not going to pick it for those reasons but I don't need to constantly mention this and just won't pick it. If I get both games I'll pick Popolio and Rowlet

I want to know how exactly is it overdesigned. It's more simplistic to me. Just draw a tiger standing and give it a wife beater and a belt and there you go. And I don't think it's trying hard to be cool. That's Rowlet3.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

When I'm getting a Gardevoir I usually for for a female but I care more about nature and IV's. If I have a male Gardevoir I just name it Futa

Chuntae the Gothithelle honoring the only male Gothithelle with HA we got in Gen5.

 

[clbgolden12]

I want to know how exactly is it overdesigned. It's more simplistic to me. Just draw a tiger standing and give it a wife beater and a belt and there you go. And I don't think it's trying hard to be cool. That's Rowlet3.

While I don't think it's too overdesigned (aside from its buffness), I do think it does try to come off as "cool" and "edgy". I mean, it's buff, seems very aggressive, and his color scheme mainly consists of black. That's like the definition of edgy.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

While I don't think it's too overdesigned (aside from its buffness), I do think it does try to come off as "cool" and "edgy". I mean, it's buff, seems very aggressive, and his color scheme mainly consists of black. That's like the definition of edgy.

It's not really edgy. For something to be edgy, it has to be provocative/avant-garde, generally to shock people. It's just a giant black and red tiger with a champion belt and a neckbeard. It's not even a true edgelord (deliberately meant to be shocking via taboo subjects or nihilistic.)

 

[clbgolden12]

It's not really edgy. For something to be edgy, it has to be provocative/avant-garde, generally to shock people. It's just a giant black and red Tiger with a champion belt and a neckbeard. It's not even a true edgelord (deliberately meant to be shocking via taboo subjects or nihilistic.)

In its concept art it shows it about to slam a Pikachu with a table and is stretching a guy while lit on fire. I'd say that's at least around Shadow levels of edge.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

In its concept art it shows it about to slam a Pikachu with a table and is stretching a guy while lit on fire. I'd say that's at least around Shadow levels of edge.

Dude shadow is a as useful as a hedgehog in a condom factory but shoehorned narrative wise whenever the devs felt it would be cool instead of necessary, litten is a starter just an average cool cat growing into a cooler cat, honestly Tony the tiger is not as edgelord as Greninja sleek design knowing how Japanese folks adore slugs, beetles and frogs.

Tony tiger is just a WWE character, in fact outside of his color scheme he is awfully simplistic in body structure.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

In its concept art it shows it about to slam a Pikachu with a table and is stretching a guy while lit on fire. I'd say that's at least around Shadow levels of edge.

Not really that edgy. It's based on a Heel Wrestler, of course he's going to pull a John Cena on a Pikachu. Shadow was edgy because his character was very provocative and even taboo at them time (since his game had guns, and at the time it was released, violent video games were taboo for a big part of America), not because he was black and red, turned into a little metroid ball, and smashed into a robot.

 

[clbgolden12]

Not really that edgy. It's based on a Heel Wrestler, of course he's going to pull a John Cena on a Pikachu. Shadow was edgy because his character was very provocative and even taboo at them time (since his game had guns, and at the time it was released, violent video games were taboo for a big part of America), not because he was black and red, turned into a little metroid ball, and smashed into a robot.

Before this discussion continues on, I'm gonna need you to define "taboo".

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Before this discussion continues on, I'm gonna need you to define "taboo".

Gaming wise you need to go full mortal combat on it's time, doom on its time, post office rampage or rape simulator for it to be tabooish.

Or just live in China XD

 

[Thepowaofhax]

Before this discussion continues on, I'm gonna need you to define "taboo".

From a Dictionary Website:

1. proscribed by society as improper or unacceptable:
Source.

Back in the day, at round 2005-7, violent video games were taboo with mainstream culture for perceived notions of it causing children to become violent. And Black Metal. And anything going against "conventional, Christian" morals.

 

[clbgolden12]

From a Dictionary Website:

Back in the day, at round 2006-7, violent video games were taboo with mainstream culture for perceived notions of it causing children to become violent.

... Hm, never knew that.

 

[goodpeople25]

Uh shadow's game was merely the peak of his edginess. Sure it was his game that had the largest amount of provocative guns and swearing and fits the official defention the best. But words are tricky things and I don't think the offical definition is quite what clbgolden12 is going for. Plus words can have degrees and for the majority of sonic games the dark colour scheme and former villian turned anti-hero (plus angst, got to have angst) is edgy enough. (And his oft companions of the provocative jewel thief and the killing machine with it's own bunch of guns doesn't exactly help)

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

It's not girly, it's just fabulous. Not to mention Water/Fairy-type is pretty good IMO, being weak to Electric, Grass and Poison and resisting Fire, Water, Ice, Fighting, Bug and Dark as well as being immune to Dargons.

I like its type combination myself, tho its design isn't my cup of tea. Even being a girl myself, I find the look of Popplio's leaked final evolved form to be too feminine and it doesn't appeal to me since I like starters that look tough when they've evolved. I wonder if little boys who'll play Sun and Moon will be put off by it or if they'll still pick Popplio any ways. ^^

 

[Thepowaofhax]

Uh shadow's game was merely the peak of his edginess. Sure it was his game that had the largest amount of provocative guns and swearing and fits the official defention the best. But words are tricky things and I don't think the offical definition is quite what clbgolden12 is going for. Plus words can have degrees and for the majority of sonic games the dark colour scheme and former villian turned anti-hero (plus angst, got to have angst) is edgy enough. (And his oft companions of the provocative jewel thief and the killing machine with it's own bunch of guns doesn't exactly help)

I mean, by that logic, I could someone is crestfallen without them being sad and/or disappointed and say that it isn't the "official definition" that I'm talking about. You cannot redefine words or slang that easily. I don't see why people think Litten3 is edgy for being black and red and doing what wrestlers do for a living (body slamming a Pikachu, for example). And while yes, part of what defines something as edgy can be grimdark aesthetics, Pokemon is light years from being even called a grimdark game aesthetically.

 

[yuoke]

Why bring up real life? This is Pokemon. The series isn't obligated to conform to any real world biology.

This is why I had zero expectations for what the starters would evolve into. I decided to just wait and see what happens. We are getting ever closer to 1000 species. We have seen enough Pokemon by now to learn that not everything is going to end up what we think is obvious or "logical".

But until gen 5, the starters always did evolve into what people generally thought they would become. That's why I didnt like what tepig turned into or with samurott, or chespin and and fennekin in gen 6. Imagine if turtwig turned into some super muscular bipedal turtle.

 

[Sakuraba]

But until gen 5, the starters always did evolve into what people generally thought they would become. That's why I didnt like what tepig turned into or with samurott, or chespin and and fennekin in gen 6. Imagine if turtwig turned into some super muscular bipedal turtle.

If he did, we would have a different opinion on it. Did anyone expect Torchic to become Blaziken? To grow arms and buggier legs? Or to Charmander to become a dragon-like lizard?

Besides, where's the fun in that?

 

[goodpeople25]

We've had bi/quadpedal switches before that, colour schemes too. If anything I think Gen 4 was the tipping point. Mainly that the themes/dual types were more in addition to what they were and more obvious about the theme. Charizard was a fire breathing lizard/dragon all the way through, venasuar and bayleaf had plants that grew up with them,ect. Even blaziken's fighting type and proportions can be said to come from his chicken/roster side.
Infernape had Chinese literature from a plain fire monkey, empoleon's theme was there with emperor penguins less so with the steel type. Torterra had world turtles,ect from just a grass turtle and more of a focus on it's head leaf than it's shell and the ground type also kina just showed up he aslo bulked up more than some might have guessed though grotle was a fine indicator of size.

But pre gen 4 still had outliers, blastoise had mythology in warturtle that disappears as fast as he grows cannnons out of nowhere (well not quite nowhere there's still most likely a reason but it dosen't seem to be turtle related, p) and sceptile's plants are alot less consistent than bayleaf and bulbasaur. (I think cannons and arm leaf blades and tree tails are freaking awesome but still not very consistent) And typlosion and swampert have the bipedal/quad thing. (Plus fire splitting then regoining, and colour scheme shenanigans respectively)

Gen 5 on was even more obvious on the added themes though, but I think pignite was a better indicator of wht it would evolve into than monferno, and Oshawott at least had the schalop in hindsight so the theme was always there. (colour scheme and proportions didn't of course.) Just though I'd get that out there (been thinking alot about previous starter themes with the discussion lately, really should bookmark thier bublpedia page) Anyway, I'd just be careful with going that far back with what people thought.

 

[yuoke]

We've had bi/quadpedal switches before that, colour schemes too. If anything I think Gen 4 was the tipping point. Mainly that the themes/dual types were more in addition to what they were and more obvious about the theme. Charizard was a fire breathing lizard/dragon all the way through, venasuar and bayleaf had plants that grew up with them,ect. Even blaziken's fighting type and proportions can be said to come from his chicken/roster side.
Infernape had Chinese literature from a plain fire monkey, empoleon's theme was there with emperor penguins less so with the steel type. Torterra had world turtles,ect from just a grass turtle and more of a focus on it's head leaf than it's shell and the ground type also kina just showed up he aslo bulked up more than some might have guessed though grotle was a fine indicator of size.

But pre gen 4 still had outliers, blastoise had mythology in warturtle that disappears as fast as he grows cannnons out of nowhere (well not quite nowhere there's still most likely a reason but it dosen't seem to be turtle related, p) and sceptile's plants are alot less consistent than bayleaf and bulbasaur. (I think cannons and arm leaf blades and tree tails are freaking awesome but still not very consistent) And typlosion and swampert have the bipedal/quad thing. (Plus fire splitting then regoining, and colour scheme shenanigans respectively)

Gen 5 on was even more obvious on the added themes though, but I think pignite was a better indicator of wht it would evolve into than monferno, and Oshawott at least had the schalop in hindsight so the theme was always there. (colour scheme and proportions didn't of course.) Just though I'd get that out there (been thinking alot about previous starter themes with the discussion lately, really should bookmark thier bublpedia page) Anyway, I'd just be careful with going that far back with what people thought.

But the difference is the designs still are basically what people thought. Turtwig turns into a bigger turtle and then a bigger turtle with some added minor things. Chimchar goes from monkey to bigger monkey to bigger monkey with some slight color changes each time. All the evolutions looked natural until gen 5 where tepig to pignite and dwwott to samurott happened.

 

[Creyk]

I like its type combination myself, tho its design isn't my cup of tea. Even being a girl myself, I find the look of Popplio's leaked final evolved form to be too feminine and it doesn't appeal to me since I like starters that look tough when they've evolved. I wonder if little boys who'll play Sun and Moon will be put off by it or if they'll still pick Popplio any ways. ^^

I don't get this though. What's wrong with being feminine? Lopunny and Gardevoir are that too and they are popular. In a world of over 800 pokemon, not all of them have to look agressive and threatening like Tyranitar/Hydreigon.