Starter Discussion & Thread

[JVLightningLover]

Haven't we seen Exeggutor using Solar Blade?

Sadly no, we haven't, though the image of a giant swinging neck with a blade of energy on the end would be incredible! We've seen Exeggutor use what appeared to be Egg Bomb/Seed Bomb and Dragon Rush.

 

[SlowPokeBroKing]

Thank you for standing up for this. I made a post regarding this before, but it's one thing to think it shouldn't matter that Pop3 looks feminine, and another to try to claim it simply doesn't have any female characteristics, i.e. Long flowing hair, hair band, hair veil (can't think of the exact name), and a hint of eyeshadow.

The problem is not so much with thinking something is feminine. It's thinking that feminine things should only appeal to girls and being turned off by something simply because it appears feminine. That is an outdated, sexist view.

But if you just don't like the design in general for humaoid purposes or whatever, it's really not a big deal.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

The problem is not so much with thinking something is feminine. It's thinking that feminine things should only appeal to girls and being turned off by something simply because it appears feminine. That is an outdated, sexist view.

But if you just don't like the design in general for humaoid purposes or whatever, it's really not a big deal.

This line of thinking is wrong and is deflecting the reason why people do not like the design to begin with. It is not because they think feminine designs should appeal to females or that masculine designs should appeal to males, it is that the feminine design Pop3 has does not make sense given the gender ratio of the Pokemon and also partially due to the traits male Pinnipeds have for others. They wouldn't care if the gender ratio was switched. Please, before you start crying wolf and kafkatrapping individuals for having an "outdated, sexist" view, look at the actual arguments being given by the other side instead of grasping for the first thing that comes to mind. This is not rocket science, and it shouldn't take someone who has argued against their viewpoints to point this out to you.

 

[clbgolden12]

The problem is not so much with thinking something is feminine. It's thinking that feminine things should only appeal to girls and being turned off by something simply because it appears feminine. That is an outdated, sexist view.

But if you just don't like the design in general for humaoid purposes or whatever, it's really not a big deal.

Unless I'm mistaken, that's not the (main) complaint with Popplio3's feminine qualities, it's its gender ratio.

Edit: Greninja'd

 

[knightwolf09]

I can't be the only one who surprised how much this is bugging people.

 

[£eszi౪]

Point made.
I think the whole Rowlet idea changed everything.
So I'll share my thoughts. The whole idea of having a Grass Flying Pokemon kinda made me think, what if there aren't as many Flying Type Pokemon from the beginning?
Why do I say and ask this? Generally because Gamefreak/Nintendo usually throw a few Flying Types at you from the start because it doesn't take long before you get Fly and start navigating fast. There are usually four in general in the first two to three towns.
You'll usually keep this Pokemon in your team for a good portion of the game so it's used often to travel and not many people like capturing a Flying Type and then immediately throwing an HM at it.

 

[knightwolf09]

Point made.
I think the whole Rowlet idea changed everything.
So I'll share my thoughts. The whole idea of having a Grass Flying Pokemon kinda made me think, what if there aren't as many Flying Type Pokemon from the beginning?
Why do I say and ask this? Generally because Gamefreak/Nintendo usually throw a few Flying Types at you from the start because it doesn't take long before you get Fly and start navigating fast. There are usually four in general in the first two to three towns.
You'll usually keep this Pokemon in your team for a good portion of the game so it's used often to travel and not many people like capturing a Flying Type and then immediately throwing an HM at it.

Don't we have pokerides to make up for HMs like Fly now?

 

[Akashin]

I can't be the only one who surprised how much this is bugging people.

I'm really hoping it happens at the point just so we can put to rest the notion that the 1:7 gender ratio means anything besides rarity. One would think Braixen/Delphox and Sylveon already would have, but here we are.

Don't we have pokerides to make up for HMs like Fly now?

Has that been confirmed? I know it's a reasonable assumption, but I don't remember hearing anything official.

 

[clbgolden12]

Has that been confirmed? I know it's a reasonable assumption, but I don't remember hearing anything official.

Nope, nothing officially confirmed.

Buttttttt, it is a pretty safe assumption. Pokéride seems to be HMs and more.

 

[SKyLineR32]

So are these the most controversial set of starters yet?

 

[clbgolden12]

So are these the most controversial set of starters yet?

Nah, that would have to go to gen 5, because Wottergate.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Nah, that would have to go to gen 5, because Wottergate.

Yeah, definitely. This batch is just getting the same scrutiny as last Gen, except that the complaints over a bipedal Fire Starter and overtly feminine Starter are spread out over two Pokemon, Liften and Poppliovely, instead of being consolidated to just Braixen/Delphox.

 

[SlowPokeBroKing]

This line of thinking is wrong and is deflecting the reason why people do not like the design to begin with. It is not because they think feminine designs should appeal to females or that masculine designs should appeal to males, it is that the feminine design Pop3 has does not make sense given the gender ratio of the Pokemon and also partially due to the traits male Pinnipeds have for others. They wouldn't care if the gender ratio was switched. Please, before you start crying wolf and kafkatrapping individuals for having an "outdated, sexist" view, look at the actual arguments being given by the other side instead of grasping for the first thing that comes to mind. This is not rocket science, and it shouldn't take someone who has argued against their viewpoints to point this out to you.

Maybe I should have clarified better. When I said what I said about appeal, I also meant that a Pokémon can exude feminine qualities and still be male. There is nothing wrong with that either. However, seeing as in the post I replied to you were talking solely about your preference in terms of design as if that's the reason you were annoyed, you can't be too shocked when someone assumes that of you.

So, to elaborate/reiterate: male Pokémon can appear as feminine and should not be a problem with anyone as we should not be applying gender roles to imaginary animals. Also, males should not be put off by feminine designs.

You can say it's not sexist to make yourself feel better, but that doesn't change the facts.

 

[SKyLineR32]

Nah, that would have to go to gen 5, because Wottergate.

Yeah, definitely. This batch is just getting the same scrutiny as last Gen, except that the complaints over a bipedal Fire Starter and overtly feminine Starter are spread out over two Pokemon, Liften and Poppliovely, instead of being consolidated to just Braixen/Delphox.

I see. I was taking a break from Pokemon back when Gen. 5 was new so I missed all of that drama. I've seen a lot of hate for the Alola starter evolutions, so it's hard for me to imagine the backlash was worse than this at one point.

 

[Class Zero]

Maybe I should have clarified better. When I said what I said about appeal, I also meant that a Pokémon can exude feminine qualities and still be male. There is nothing wrong with that either. However, seeing as in the post I replied to you were talking solely about your preference in terms of design as if that's the reason you were annoyed, you can't be too shocked when someone assumes that of you.

So, to elaborate/reiterate: male Pokémon can appear as feminine and should not be a problem with anyone as we should not be applying gender roles to imaginary animals. Also, males should not be put off by feminine designs.

You can say it's not sexist to make yourself feel better, but that doesn't change the facts.

But if they are.. that's not sexist, man. That's called preference.

I agree with you, there's nothing wrong with a Pokemon being feminine and both boys and girls liking the Pokemon as well as its feminine aspects. However, what still is considered normal today, as in the circumstance that is most common occurring, is that boys will find masculine/neutral stuff more appealing than feminine stuff and vice versa.

Honestly this whole discussion is silly, but you can't call people sexist for simply preferring a more masculine or neutral design.

And honestly, I wouldn't yet say it's outdated for others to assume an average boy would like more neutral/masculine designs and an average girl would prefer neutral/feminine designs. Progress has been made to bridge the gender divide, but I wouldn't yet say it's gone by any means and I'd say that it's still normal to think that way.

 

[2dtyplosion]

This feminine Popplio thing is being way overblown. Ever since gen 5 there has been 1 feminine starter. Why is it a big deal that gf wants to give something to the female fanbase?

 

[Thepowaofhax]

Maybe I should have clarified better. When I said what I said about appeal, I also meant that a Pokémon can exude feminine qualities and still be male. There is nothing wrong with that either. However, seeing as in the post I replied to you were talking solely about your preference in terms of design as if that's the reason you were annoyed, you can't be too shocked when someone assumes that of you.

So, to elaborate/reiterate: male Pokémon can appear as feminine and should not be a problem with anyone as we should not be applying gender roles to imaginary animals. Also, males should not be put off by feminine designs.

You can say it's not sexist to make yourself feel better, but that doesn't change the facts.

So basically, if you have an artistic preference towards more masculine things, you are obviously a sexist? You do realize how idiotic this is? I guess my artistic preference to post-apocalyptic landscapes and rather dark looking paintings must mean I exude all kinds of anti-social, nihilist and plain psychopathic behaviors, because, you know, a man liking things that are more masculine must mean they are sexist. I also guess liking more feminine qualities must obviously mean you're objectifying women and thus are still sexist (because this is quite common in small groups of people I have seen; the doublethink is ridiculous). But you know, it seems like you would be the type to say that considering that all you're doing is ignoring the argument that post was a part of as an excuse to call anyone in the "out-group" sexist.

Also, you are ignoring the context of the post you had quoted, as it had distinctly quoted someone who was arguing about that ratio, and thus strawmanning the argument by stating that the post was talking solely about a preference.

Again, while yes, it is OK for a male Pokemon to look feminine by our standards, you are also ignoring past arguments from others saying that Pop3 should be more based on the masculine traits of Pinnipeds, which is applying the behaviors of male seals/sea lions/walruses on a Pokemon with a high rate of being male. Is that sexist? Are biological facts regarding a pre-sentient species magically sexist now? You are completely ignoring the argument that post is a part of so you can cop out to call anyone with opinions dissenting from your own sexist, which, for one, is a basis for Fascist thought (in-group vs out-group mentality).

 

[clbgolden12]

This feminine Popplio thing is being way overblown. Ever since gen 5 there has been 1 feminine starter. Why is it a big deal that gf wants to give something to the female fanbase?

If I recall, I'm pretty sure Delphox's feminine qualities were also complained about quite a bit as well (not so much for Serperior as it does look kind of gender neutral).

 

[JVLightningLover]

If I recall, I'm pretty sure Delphox's feminine qualities were also complained about quite a bit as well (not so much for Serperior as it does look kind of gender neutral).

Braixen and Delphox definitely received criticism, and doubly so because of the bipedal shift. Delphox I feel still gets some hate, but people have certainly come around when it comes to Braixen. It's inclusion in Pokken, from what I've heard, was likely due to its tremendous popularity in Japan.

All that being said, while I like Delphox (though I like Braixen more), I think Poppliovely blows it out of the water designwise. It's actually my favorite final Starter Evo since Samurott in terms of aesthetics.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Braixen and Delphox definitely received criticism, and doubly so because of the bipedal shift. Delphox I feel still gets some hate, but people have certainly come around when it comes to Braixen. It's inclusion in Pokken, from what I've heard, was likely due to its tremendous popularity in Japan.

All that being said, while I like Delphox (though I like Braixen more), I think Poppliovely blows it out of the water designwise. It's actually my favorite final Starter Evo since Samurott in terms of aesthetics.

Delphox has inspiration from witchcraft and shintoism, I honestly see him as gender neutral, but we'll I live in an urban area with loads of bats, owls, tzentzontles, Zanates, snakes Owls, Parrots, pidgeons, vultures, foxes, coyotes and occasional heloderma suspectum that we call scorpion lizard as well as big fat rats and an occasional bunny in the green impact zones so I'm kinda exposed to their behavior in an urban area.

Foxes are one of the most badass animals, they even try to open cars if you leave food inside! Their calls do scare loads of foreigners since it's like a woman screaming, but they show how though the species is and how amazing they are at finding food outside of hunting, I can't see a fox as nothing else than a resourceful badass after growing up where I did, throw in magic and I ended up in love with Delphox, the eeveelutions and Ninetails never got me enamored as much as this wand wielding fox(outside of leafeon, wich sadly sucks ingame).

Gender is defined by the environment one grows, I grew up with foxes opening cars or chasing rats in packs while hiding in the riverside whenever a light went up, so I can't think of them as female at all, even after seeing a fox den when I was little, little fox are timid yet cute BTW.