Starter Discussion & Thread

[yuoke]

Maybe I should have clarified better. When I said what I said about appeal, I also meant that a Pokémon can exude feminine qualities and still be male. There is nothing wrong with that either. However, seeing as in the post I replied to you were talking solely about your preference in terms of design as if that's the reason you were annoyed, you can't be too shocked when someone assumes that of you.

So, to elaborate/reiterate: male Pokémon can appear as feminine and should not be a problem with anyone as we should not be applying gender roles to imaginary animals. Also, males should not be put off by feminine designs.

You can say it's not sexist to make yourself feel better, but that doesn't change the facts.

So you are saying anyone that doesnt happen to like this design for popplio is sexist? Okay, nice to know, got it.

 

[Nuzlocker4Life]

And this is why these supposed final evos for the starters are extremely terrible designs: the simple fact that our human brains can't help but take notice of certain aspects or qualities that remind us of things we see commonly among our species (dresses, ripped muscles, hair and beads/bands to hold said hair, bipedal, eye makeup).

Neutrality is important and preferred because it shuts everyone up on all fronts.

 

[Lykouros]

So, to elaborate/reiterate: male Pokémon can appear as feminine and should not be a problem with anyone as we should not be applying gender roles to imaginary animals. Also, males should not be put off by feminine designs.

You can say it's not sexist to make yourself feel better, but that doesn't change the facts.

It's not sexist to prefer male or female designs or not prefer male or female designs. Males and female designs may have qualities males and females don't care for. That is most definitely not sexist, it's preference based on a number of factors. I'm a female and I don't often like playing with female characters if they don't fit what I'm looking for in a female character, and this includes Pokemon. I think the same of male characters. Please, don't claim someone's opinion as sexist as 'a fact'.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Delphox has inspiration from witchcraft and shintoism, I honestly see him as gender neutral, but we'll I live in an urban area with loads of bats, owls, tzentzontles, Zanates, snakes Owls, Parrots, pidgeons, vultures, foxes, coyotes and occasional heloderma suspectum that we call scorpion lizard as well as big fat rats and an occasional bunny in the green impact zones so I'm kinda exposed to their behavior in an urban area.

Foxes are one of the most badass animals, they even try to open cars if you leave food inside! Their calls do scare loads of foreigners since it's like a woman screaming, but they show how though the species is and how amazing they are at finding food outside of hunting, I can't see a fox as nothing else than a resourceful badass after growing up where I did, throw in magic and I ended up in love with Delphox, the eeveelutions and Ninetails never got me enamored as much as this wand wielding fox(outside of leafeon, wich sadly sucks ingame).

Gender is defined by the environment one grows, I grew up with foxes opening cars or chasing rats in packs while hiding in the riverside whenever a light went up, so I can't think of them as female at all, even after seeing a fox den when I was little, little fox are timid yet cute BTW.

Yeah, I never felt that Delphox was all that feminine (though I do get that from Braixen, and I love that Pokken gave it a magical girl theme), but that was the general consensus, likely as a holdover from Braixen. Still, that didn't stop me from training a female one and naming her Willow.

And I wouldn't say that Leafeon sucks. It's actually not terrible, and has its uses as an offensive Cleric and hard hitting Physical Attacker, it is just held back by a limited movepool, as is sadly true of many Eeveelutions

And finally, yes, foxes are incredible. I honestly don't mind that (if you count Alolan Ninetales) we've gotten new foxes 3 Generations in a row. They're just so lovable!

 

[Nunn]

Don't we have pokerides to make up for HMs like Fly now?

Nope, nothing officially confirmed.

Buttttttt, it is a pretty safe assumption. Pokéride seems to be HMs and more.

I gotta disagree, they just seem like pokemon you can ride from gen 6. Besides maybe Charizard.

The others all seem to have specific areas you can ride them in. So it just looks like they expanded more upon what they did last gen.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

I gotta disagree, they just seem like pokemon you can ride from gen 6. Besides maybe Charizard.

The others all seem to have specific areas you can ride them in. So it just looks like they expanded more upon what they did last gen.

Not really, you can literally summon them anywhere. At least we won't burden HMs on our mons, including Starters now. Surf would make a nice TM though.

 

[Illusio]

Nah, that would have to go to gen 5, because Wottergate.

Aye, though I would say these guys are second to them.

This feminine Popplio thing is being way overblown. Ever since gen 5 there has been 1 feminine starter. Why is it a big deal that gf wants to give something to the female fanbase?

Maybe it's just me, buy I never saw Serperior as feminine, at least not completely. Delphox I also felt was more gender neutral, though I do understand that one more due to the robe.

 

[JVLightningLover]

I gotta disagree, they just seem like pokemon you can ride from gen 6. Besides maybe Charizard.

The others all seem to have specific areas you can ride them in. So it just looks like they expanded more upon what they did last gen.

I don't know, I think you'll be able to call on them whenever. Check this out:

http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/media/uploads/aug_1_assets/ride-770x562.png

Notice how the Poke Ball has a slot that allows it to seemingly connect to the device? Odds are that all you have to do is dial up the Mon you want and send them out. I'm sure there will be some restrictions (it is directly mentioned that Mudsdale is not allowed on many paved roads), but Pokeride will likely be service you can call on at will. We even see a Tauros on a paved road in one of the trailers, walking away from Hala, implying that it will be allowed in towns and outside of Routes in general.

Though I am wondering why this came up in the Starters thread...

 

[SKyLineR32]

And this is why these supposed final evos for the starters are extremely terrible designs: the simple fact that our human brains can't help but take notice of certain aspects or qualities that remind us of things we see commonly among our species (dresses, ripped muscles, hair and beads/bands to hold said hair, bipedal, eye makeup).

Neutrality is important and preferred because it shuts everyone up on all fronts.

Don't try to speak for everyone. Not all of us are bothered by these kind of design features, especially since they've been seen on Pokemon since Gen. 1.

 

[yuoke]

Don't try to speak for everyone. Not all of us are bothered by these kind of design features, especially since they've been seen on Pokemon since Gen. 1.

I think he means that while not everyone is bothered by it, there are a lot of people that clearly are. Yet neutral designs don't bother anyone.

 

[Mrs. Oreo]

I don't get this though. What's wrong with being feminine? Lopunny and Gardevoir are that too and they are popular.

I don't think there's anything wrong with feminine pokemon per se. I just think Popplio's final stage could've been a bit more gender neutral in appearance since it's a starter pokemon and should appeal to boys and girls equally. But the way things are, it looks like it'll be more popular with female players. ^^;

 

[SlowPokeBroKing]

So basically, if you have an artistic preference towards more masculine things, you are obviously a sexist? You do realize how idiotic this is? I guess my artistic preference to post-apocalyptic landscapes and rather dark looking paintings must mean I exude all kinds of anti-social, nihilist and plain psychopathic behaviors, because, you know, a man liking things that are more masculine must mean they are sexist. I also guess liking more feminine qualities must obviously mean you're objectifying women and thus are still sexist (because this is quite common in small groups of people I have seen; the doublethink is ridiculous). But you know, it seems like you would be the type to say that considering that all you're doing is ignoring the argument that post was a part of as an excuse to call anyone in the "out-group" sexist.

Also, you are ignoring the context of the post you had quoted, as it had distinctly quoted someone who was arguing about that ratio, and thus strawmanning the argument by stating that the post was talking solely about a preference.

Again, while yes, it is OK for a male Pokemon to look feminine by our standards, you are also ignoring past arguments from others saying that Pop3 should be more based on the masculine traits of Pinnipeds, which is applying the behaviors of male seals/sea lions/walruses on a Pokemon with a high rate of being male. Is that sexist? Are biological facts regarding a pre-sentient species magically sexist now? You are completely ignoring the argument that post is a part of so you can cop out to call anyone with opinions dissenting from your own sexist, which, for one, is a basis for Fascist thought (in-group vs out-group mentality).

I was about to type out a long explanation on how you don't even understand what sexism is, but I'll leave it to you to research. I'm not your mom. If you want to keep crying about girly things existing, be my guest.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

I was about to type out a long explanation on how you don't even understand what sexism is, but I'll leave it to you to research. I'm not your mom. If you want to keep crying about girly things existing, be my guest.

I do understand about what it is, but you clearly don't if one little preference substantiates as "sexism", thus diluting its meaning to nothingness, nor have you even payed attention to what I said in the first post. I quite clearly pointed out that I was debating against the point that Pop3 is too feminine due for its gender ratio and that I didn't care that it was feminine. You're deliberately not looking into the actual arguments and calling people sexists for preferences and debating against the design by using reasons such as the biological evolution of real life Pinnipeds and that its design doesn't make sense for the gender ratio, which pretty much equates your entire argument as "anyone I disagree with is literally Hitler". There are no gender roles involved, and there is no one bashing the design over being feminine, both of which are the "reasons" you pulled out of no where to justify your folly argument. Please, do not bother with this debate if you're not going to have the common courtesy to read back on the actual conversations.

 

[yuoke]

I was about to type out a long explanation on how you don't even understand what sexism is, but I'll leave it to you to research. I'm not your mom. If you want to keep crying about girly things existing, be my guest.

Are you really going to act that ignorant and bigoted like that, seriously now? You need to understand how to handle other people's opinions, bud.

 

[knightwolf09]

I don't think there's anything wrong with feminine pokemon per se. I just think Popplio's final stage could've been a bit more gender neutral in appearance since it's a starter pokemon and should appeal to boys and girls equally. But the way things are, it looks like it'll be more popular with female players. ^^;

I've seen a couple of guys like the design though. It's something that can easily be looked over unless you don't like the design in general, but I think people's inner masculinity it what's bugging people the most. Pokemon both feminine and masculine are mostly supposed to appeal to everyone, not just a specific gender.

 

[SlowPokeBroKing]

I do understand about what it is, but you clearly don't if anything but one little preference substantiates at "sexism", nor have you even payed attention to what I said in the first post. I quite clearly pointed out that I was debating against the point that Pop3 is too feminine due to the gender ratio and that I didn't care that it was feminine. You're deliberately not looking into the actual arguments and calling people sexists for preferences and debating against the design by using reasons such as the biological evolution of real life Pinnipeds and the aforementioned gender ratio, which pretty much equates argument as "anyone I disagree with is literally Hitler".

Again, you don't understand what sexism is. You think you know because everyone thinks they know, but a little bit of research and insight will go a long way. The fact that an article on a forum about Pokémon has been hijacked due to questioning gender ratios over a seal with pretty hair is the proof we should all need to want to really grasp how integrated sexism is in society.

 

[yuoke]

I've seen a couple of guys like the design though. It's something that can easily be looked over unless you don't like the design in general, but I think people's inner masculinity it what's bugging people the most. Pokemon both feminine and masculine are mostly supposed to appeal to everyone, not just a specific gender.

It's not that for me, because I don't like litten's for being overly masculine. So what does it say if I don't for that, but also don't like popplio's? I also didn't like delphox, but I didn't like emboar either. So it's not a sexist thing, clearly.

 

[knightwolf09]

It's not that for me, because I don't like litten's for being overly masculine. So what does it say if I don't for that, but also don't like popplio's? I also didn't like delphox, but I didn't like emboar either. So it's not a sexist thing, clearly.

Don't lump me in with trying to call people sexist now. If you don't like those pokemon that's due to your own personal tastes.

 

[yuoke]

Don't lump me in with trying to call people sexist now. If you don't like those pokemon that's due to your own personal tastes.

I'm not lumping you in but you just were saying that people that don't like popplio's are just insecure regarding their masculinity. All of these bigoted and pointless arguments could end if some people could learn to accept that not everyone will have the same opinion as them.

 

[Thepowaofhax]

Again, you don't understand what sexism is. You think you know because everyone thinks they know, but a little bit of research and insight will go a long way. The fact that an article on a forum about Pokémon has been hijacked due to questioning gender ratios over a seal with pretty hair is the proof we should all need to want to really grasp how integrated sexism is in society.

Again,

There are no gender roles involved, and there is no one bashing the design over being feminine, both of which are the "reasons" you pulled out of no where to justify your folly argument. Please, do not bother with this debate if you're not going to have the common courtesy to read back on the actual conversations.

Read back on the argument before crying wolf about sexism. They just don't think the gender ratio makes sense, this is not sexist considering the very thing this Pokemon is based on a siren/mermaid/selkie, which mythologically is always female (except the selkie, but female selkies are more famous due to the stories about them). Pop3 is, by majority, male, with a lot of feminine traits. While I don't really care, nor is it human/humanoid, it is pretty petty to go around with this whole mantra of everyone is sexist because they disagree with your opinion, which is quite bigoted I might add.