Starter Discussion & Thread

[JVLightningLover]

Actually the S.S. Anne and Champion cameos showed up in the Bewear leaks first.

But that leak didn't mention battling the Champions on the S.S. Anne (it mentioned the cameos and S.S. Anne as two separate points), and it only mentioned Blue, Lance, and Cnythia, not all of the Champions.

Also, I can't think of a single leak that mentioned Alolan Dragonite, but I wouldn't be surprised if I missed one, given the sheer volume we've been dealing with

 

[Bus]

<snip>

This may go on forever. It may seem kinda rude, but I think the best option at this point is for everyone to just completely ignore each other and forcibly change the subject. So come on, join the party! Hear any good leaks regarding the starters lately? Any theories on what Rockruff's secret is and how it relates (if at all) to the starters? With all the speculation we've done on it already, I feel like we're just setting ourselves up for a disappointing reveal lol. Its going to come out in Corocoro that Rockruff is given to us by the professor; just like the starter and that's their connection lol.

Actually...amusing thought; any possibility that Rockruff is actually a 4th starter? It throws the balance a bit out the window, but it would certainly be a change of pace and make things pretty interesting. Or do you think its just to ridiculous to ponder?

But that leak didn't mention battling the Champions on the S.S. Anne (it mentioned the cameos and S.S. Anne as two separate points), and it only mentioned Blue, Lance, and Cnythia, not all of the Champions.

Also, I can't think of a single leak that mentioned Alolan Dragonite, but I wouldn't be surprised if I missed one, given the sheer volume we've been dealing with

Well, to be fair, the one I read wasn't necesarilly all the champions; just most of the 'significant' story people you;ve met over time. It included N and Giovanni in there as well. And it didnt so much as straight up give the reveal of an Alolan Dragonite as it just listed their pokemon and just noted things like "Ash/Red battles you with a Mega Charizard, a Pikachu, and an Alolan Raichu" and in the list of what they battle you with, I noticed that they had 'Alolan Dragonite' in there amongst Lance's team.

 

[yumenokage]

If the inspiration goes for this myth there is really nothing wrong with it, there is a base for it to work, we can like or dislike it, at best is just like Vaniluxe, a living 2headed Icicle that works as an early pure ice mon. I love that concept and I think the fact that they mixed it with a double scoop ice cream is pure genius, but many just see it as plain ice cream or just another "put a derpy face on an object and call it a pokemon" thing that people who like furry critters or dragons and birds in adventure games plainly dislike for challenging their concept of disbelief.

I like a number of inanimate-object pokemon, such as litwick-lantern-chandelure, of which I think the progression is brilliant, but I must say the whole ice-cream pokemon thing turns me off. When I'm eating ice-cream I don't want to have to be paranoid that it's actually a pokemon...

As for the whole testosterone-seal thing, well, maybe we will actually get split evos and there can be both aspects? Or they can do it for another evolutionary line. I suppose siren/selkie is an interesting turn myself, and we do have a bulkier walrus thingy already... Personally, I'm guessing if the leaks are real and there's no split evo GF purposely made poppliovely and liften sort of balance each other out and the buff vs. elegant scale. Why they thought we needed another buff fire starter that might as well design-wise be part fighting even if it ends up part dark is beyond me, though. I haven't liked a fire starter since gen 2...

 

[Lykouros]

I was about to type out a long explanation on how you don't even understand what sexism is, but I'll leave it to you to research. I'm not your mom. If you want to keep crying about girly things existing, be my guest.

Let me get this straight: you believe this person is sexist and you clearly oppose sexism and believe it an injustice, yet you refuse to put any effort into tackling said injustice by educating this person? On top of this, they are not sexist and you're unwilling to have a respectful discussion about it to begin with. Do tell me again what you're doing right?

I'm sorry for being so snappy about it, but if you aren't willing to educate then it's difficult for anyone to take you seriously. Furthermore, although the person in question sounds as though they are an adult, there are people of all ages on this forum, including youth, who could use more opportunities to learn and less opportunities to be slandered. You ought to realize it is these adverse, disrespectful, and high-and-mighty exchanges which create many of the divides in society (including sexism). If it is an issue which truly bothers you then perhaps you should take some time to actually address it.

Edit: my phone didn't load everything and I did not see this discussion is over. My apologies for furthering it. I may finally post a discussion in the misc board if anyone wants to continue this. Thanks!

The point still stands that the opinion of the starters is not sexist and is but a matter of personal opinion.

 

[knightwolf09]

I like a number of inanimate-object pokemon, such as litwick-lantern-chandelure, of which I think the progression is brilliant, but I must say the whole ice-cream pokemon thing turns me off. When I'm eating ice-cream I don't want to have to be paranoid that it's actually a pokemon...

As for the whole testosterone-seal thing, well, maybe we will actually get split evos and there can be both aspects? Or they can do it for another evolutionary line. I suppose siren/selkie is an interesting turn myself, and we do have a bulkier walrus thingy already... Personally, I'm guessing if the leaks are real and there's no split evo GF purposely made poppliovely and liften sort of balance each other out and the buff vs. elegant scale. Why they thought we needed another buff fire starter that might as well design-wise be part fighting even if it ends up part dark is beyond me, though. I haven't liked a fire starter since gen 2...

I think Litten3 is literally the only buff starter we got. Everyone else is either fat or lean.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Actually the S.S. Anne and Champion cameos showed up in the Bewear leaks first.



And you were hoping for too much realism in a game about supernatural creatures my friend.

And it's OK, I mean we got dewgong, it got an ice breaker horn and lives in ice so it gets the ice type, we got Warlein that also lives in cold climates, guess what...ice.

Both species have their gimmicks, but face horrible competition as the water type is a great type, but a bit overcrowded, this means the ice type makes you want to stay away from them as they aren't fast enough to abuse it, even if they had a cool gimmick or the bst to make them desirable, so they fell into complete obscurity.

They are relatively bland despite being a bit chimeric, but game design flaws made them garbage.

Now we get a third revisit at a last stage pinipede, and it's just based on a myth, no real life traits in a family that has some of the most extreme and amazing convergent evolution and niche adaptations with freaking awesome gender driven selective evolution ensuring those traits not only pass on, but become even more specialized, so yes it is disappointing. So yes it is within the real window of expectation.

This is like having a canine pokemon have 8 legs and wings while also purring, it betrays a bit what you expect of a dog, there might be a bit or genius or a pun lost in translation, but it still betrays those that expect dogs to be dogs or for a dog to showcase an element associated with them.

A Selkie is fine, a Seal or Sea Lion getting the spotlight instead of a myth could have been better.

 

[knightwolf09]

And it's OK, I mean we got dewgong, it got an ice breaker horn and lives in ice so it gets the ice type, we got Warlein that also lives in cold climates, guess what...ice.

Both species have their gimmicks, but face horrible competition as the water type is a great type, but a bit overcrowded, this means the ice type makes you want to stay away from them as they aren't fast enough to abuse it, even if they had a cool gimmick or the bst to make them desirable, so they fell into complete obscurity.

They are relatively bland despite being a bit chimeric, but game design flaws made them garbage.

Now we get a third revisit at a last stage pinipede, and it's just based on a myth, no real life traits in a family that has some of the most extreme and amazing convergent evolution and niche adaptations with freaking awesome gender driven selective evolution ensuring those traits not only pass on, but become even more specialized, so yes it is disappointing. So yes it is within the real window of expectation.

This is like having a canine pokemon have 8 legs and wings while also purring, it betrays a bit what you expect of a dog, there might be a bit or genius or a pun lost in translation, but it still betrays those that expect dogs to be dogs or for a dog to showcase an element associated with them.

A Selkie is fine, a Seal or Sea Lion getting the spotlight instead of a myth could have been better.

Again, it's pokemon. Pretty sure they've proven not everything is going to end up as what you'd expect. It's kind of why it's best to just expect anything, so you don't disappoint yourself too hard. So there's no real betrayal, just too high of expectations. And I know you REALLY wanted that fat Fighting seal. It was kind of all you talked about.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Again, it's pokemon. Pretty sure they've proven not everything is going to end up as what you'd expect. It's kind of why it's best to just expect anything, so you don't disappoint yourself too hard. So there's no real betrayal, just too high of expectations. And I know you REALLY wanted that fat Fighting seal. It was kind of all you talked about.

Or a Dark-type Sea Lion/Leopard seal, a sound based hooded seal or a badass fighting elephant seal.

All could have worked to be honest, a Selkie is OK. But pinipedes go once again unnoticed outside of a couple of myths if Selkie Popplio is real.

 

[Bus]

I think Litten3 is literally the only buff starter we got. Everyone else is either fat or lean.

I was going to try and counter that, but after thinking about it, you're totally right.
Blastoise- fat turtle
Venusaur- Fat....plant monster...thing
Charizard- Just a stereotypical western dragon, though in some art it does look like he's dangerously close to developing a beer-belly

Meganium- A brontosaurus...also kinda chunky
Feraligtor- a Bipedal alligator; pretty standard looking, no buff-ness to him
Typhlosion- Awesome incarnate, but not buff in any way

Swampert- Again, nothing buff about him...cant say he's sleek, but nobody would really say he looks muscly either
Sceptile- Nope; in fact, his arms are kinda scrawny
Blaziken- sleek design; looks lie a kick-boxer wearing some leg warmers, but even then his legs dont look jacked

Torterra- Quadruped with a forest growing on its back; we actually cant see much of his body outside his shell
Infernape- That monkey is very definitely not buff
Empoleon- Kinda chubby emporer penguin with flippers; I dont think its possible for him to look buff

Seviper- Doesnt even have appendages
Samurott- Reverted in its final form and became a quadruped covered in armor; he's not buff either
Emboar- Definitely fat. No hiding that one

Delphox- Slender fox in a robe
Chesknaught- Bulky...I dont even know what...in some armor
Greninja- sleek frog ninja

So...yeah, a buff cat wrestler...or really just a buff starter in general is pretty new. I mean, who else really has a buff physique beyond the Machamp line? The Nido pair maybe?

 

[yumenokage]

I think Litten3 is literally the only buff starter we got. Everyone else is either fat or lean.

maybe in terms of having defined muscles, but there is definitely a common sort of theme. But I admit I probably could have phrased that better. How about, "bipedal, somewhat humanoid, physically oriented (or in infernape's case technically equal special and physical attack, but more physically themed), half-fighting or might as well be half-fighting types."

 

[yuoke]

Samurott actually is decently buff considering you can see his pectoral lines.

https://media.pocketmonsters.net/characters/2587.png/t/400.png

 

[Disaster_Lord]

I was going to try and counter that, but after thinking about it, you're totally right.
Blastoise- fat turtle
Venusaur- Fat....plant monster...thing
Charizard- Just a stereotypical western dragon, though in some art it does look like he's dangerously close to developing a beer-belly

Meganium- A brontosaurus...also kinda chunky
Feraligtor- a Bipedal alligator; pretty standard looking, no buff-ness to him
Typhlosion- Awesome incarnate, but not buff in any way

Swampert- Again, nothing buff about him...cant say he's sleek, but nobody would really say he looks muscly either
Sceptile- Nope; in fact, his arms are kinda scrawny
Blaziken- sleek design; looks lie a kick-boxer wearing some leg warmers, but even then his legs dont look jacked

Torterra- Quadruped with a forest growing on its back; we actually cant see much of his body outside his shell
Infernape- That monkey is very definitely not buff
Empoleon- Kinda chubby emporer penguin with flippers; I dont think its possible for him to look buff

Seviper- Doesnt even have appendages
Samurott- Reverted in its final form and became a quadruped covered in armor; he's not buff either
Emboar- Definitely fat. No hiding that one

Delphox- Slender fox in a robe
Chesknaught- Bulky...I dont even know what...in some armor
Greninja- sleek frog ninja

So...yeah, a buff cat wrestler...or really just a buff starter in general is pretty new. I mean, who else really has a buff physique beyond the Machamp line? The Nido pair maybe?

Any dinosaur mon in Gen 1-2 all had the design flaw of stubby legs and fat tail. They look great on side art, but front angles makes them seen uncanny.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Samurott actually is decently buff considering you can see his pectoral lines.

https://media.pocketmonsters.net/characters/2587.png/t/400.png

Agreed, though Liften is a bit different, due to it having a larger upper body and it being an obligate biped. Also, Samurott has the pecs, but it is far from "toned".

 

[knightwolf09]

maybe in terms of having defined muscles, but there is a common thing. But I admit I probably could have phrased that better. How about, "bipedal, somewhat humanoid, physically oriented (or in infernape's case technically equal special and physical attack, but more physically themed), half-fighting or might as well be half-fighting types."

That sounds a bit long, but I see what you mean. I'm pretty sure people will warm up to him in time. Otherwise it's probably safe to say these are the most disliked starter we've had yet. First we've had the Popplio hate, and now it evolves into something that cause pages of arguments about sexism, Litten's was doomed to be despised for just standing, and some don't even like Rowlet's evo for just having glasses like markings.

 

[yuoke]

That sounds a bit long, but I see what you mean. I'm pretty sure people will warm up to him in time. Otherwise it's probably safe to say these are the most disliked starter we've had yet. First we've had the Popplio hate, and now it evolves into something that cause pages of arguments about sexism, Litten's was doomed to be despised for just standing, and some don't even like Rowlet's evo for just having glasses like markings.

They will be even more hated because the first forms are liked a lot more than the first forms of the unova trio also. yea popplio got some hate at first but not nearly as much as oshawott and litten was liked more than tepig. I'd say rowlet maybe was even liked slightly more than snivy. So the expectations were just set way higher from the start.

 

[Disaster_Lord]

Honestly it's a loud minority using the "sexism card" in this discussion, some are talking about the inspirations behind the designs, the practical breeding uses ingame or other things that bug them about the design.

Saying everything is about the gender of Popplio final stage is a gross over generalization, and it might be offensive for some of the folks that try to get their point across in their arguments but just end up riled in the "gender" debate or get mauled by the "sexism" wild card some people throw around.

 

[yumenokage]

That sounds a bit long, but I see what you mean. I'm pretty sure people will warm up to him in time. Otherwise it's probably safe to say these are the most disliked starter we've had yet. First we've had the Popplio hate, and now it evolves into something that cause pages of arguments about sexism, Litten's was doomed to be despised for just standing, and some don't even like Rowlet's evo for just having glasses like markings.

yep. There's just been too many... Makes me honestly wonder if GF is unaware of the tiredness of this kind of fire starter and the hate that yet another one would generate... surely they must have some idea?

They will be even more hated because the first forms are liked a lot more than the first forms of the unova trio also. yea popplio got some hate at first but not nearly as much as oshawott and litten was liked more than tepig. I'd say rowlet maybe was even liked slightly more than snivy. So the expectations were just set way higher from the start.

Litten might've been my favorite if it stayed quadruped... ;_; Why, GF, Why?!!! It would have needed some quality work to make it not blend in a bit much with things like houndoom, but it could have been pretty awesome. Rowlet also caught my eye from the begining (and I continue to like its leaked evo), but mainly because of the novelty of a grass/flying type rather than innate super-attraction to the design (although I liked the design fairly well, I suppose).

 

[yuoke]

yep. There's just been too many... Makes me honestly wonder if GF is unaware of the tiredness of this kind of fire starter and the hate that yet another one would generate... surely they must have some idea?



Litten might've been my favorite if it stayed quadruped... ;_; Why, GF, Why?!!! It would have needed some quality work to make it not blend in a bit much with things like houndoom, but it could have been pretty awesome. Rowlet also caught my eye from the begining (and I continue to like its leaked evo), but mainly because of the novelty of a grass/flying type rather than innate super-attraction to the design (although I liked the design fairly well, I suppose).

Yea I mean the main reason so many people liked litten was for it being kind of a stereotypical looking calm, reserved, smug cat. It literally turns into the exact opposite of that.

 

[Coller23]

They will be even more hated because the first forms are liked a lot more than the first forms of the unova trio also. yea popplio got some hate at first but not nearly as much as oshawott and litten was liked more than tepig. I'd say rowlet maybe was even liked slightly more than snivy. So the expectations were just set way higher from the start.

Dude, you are way overblowing things.

 

[yuoke]

Dude, you are way overblowing things.

How am I overblowing things exactly?