Starter Discussion & Thread

[Charmander27]

I said this in another tread, gonna say it again; Z-Moves Transformations are nothing but redundant. Why have two things that do the same ****?

While I agree, and think that it's dumb that Z-moves (in general, but especially transformations) and mega evolutions are coming off as different things, I'm going to explain how they could be different. One transforms on a whim, the other does a special attack THEN transforms. If I understand it correctly, Z-moves can only be used once per battle?

In addition, maybe they reveal that mega stones were just one type of Z-stone, the kind that lets you evolve, and that the rest of them are alternate types.

I think that Sun and Moon will be more like "Pokémon Z" than people are willing to believe.

 

[Dialga101010]

So, aside from Bruxish, I've liked every Pokémon revealed thus far in Sun and Moon. However, I didn't like any of the concept art starter leaks... at all. Something about them seems really fake and not right, but people are treating them as confirmed because of a girl with a flower in her hair in a Hawai'ian themed game. For all I'm concerned, it was a giant Bellossom until GameFreak says otherwise.

It's not just mallow that confirms it but the fact that a rugby monkey (passimian), a sea cucumber(pyukumuku), and werewolf evo for rockruff were leaked at the same time which have all with uncanny accuracy been predicted by the same leaker at the same time. The leak is 100% confirmed. I too felt suspicious of the starter evos with only Mallow as proof but with these other confirmed leaks make me certain of the starter leaks. Also the more I look at the starter leaked art the more I am sure the art isn't fake and the more I like the art. Rowlet's final evo's hood still looks ugly to me though. I understand your suspicion but I assure you this is not a time it warranted.

 

[Julia Artemis]

While I agree, and think that it's dumb that Z-moves (in general, but especially transformations) and mega evolutions are coming off as different things, I'm going to explain how they could be different. One transforms on a whim, the other does a special attack THEN transforms. If I understand it correctly, Z-moves can only be used once per battle?

In addition, maybe they reveal that mega stones were just one type of Z-stone, the kind that lets you evolve, and that the rest of them are alternate types.

I think that Sun and Moon will be more like "Pokémon Z" than people are willing to believe.

I totally agree with this. I think they started the game as Pokemon Z, to actually give Zygarde a reason to exist and make sense of mega evolutions, but probably didn't think there was enough there to warrant a game and just decided to roll it into a new generation and kind of let their minds run wild after visiting Hawaii. Which I'm glad about since this seems like the best game since Black and White and maybe the best ever.

 

[goodpeople25]

It's not just mallow that confirms it but the fact that a rugby monkey (passimian), a sea cucumber(pyukumuku), and werewolf evo for rockruff were leaked at the same time which have all with uncanny accuracy been predicted by the same leaker at the same time. The leak is 100% confirmed. I too felt suspicious of the starter evos with only Mallow as proof but with these other confirmed leaks make me certain of the starter leaks. Also the more I look at the starter leaked art the more I am sure the art isn't fake and the more I like the art. Rowlet's final evo's hood still looks ugly to me though. I understand your suspicion but I assure you this is not a time it warranted.

From what I understand The chinese leak (rugby monkey,ect) and the concept art, (Mallow included) are connected in that the chinese leak mentions the starters being an archer, a wrestler and a water/fairy siren (renewing interest in the preceding concept art) but ultimately they are separate. (For example It could be a piggyback by the Chinese leak even if most of the other info is true.)

 

[Dialga101010]

Here's my source: http://http://pokejungle.net/2016/08/01/chinese-rumor-leaked-starter-evolutions-confirmed-true/
I'm pretty sure that based on this they are the same leak but pokejungle could have gotten it wrong.

 

[knightwolf09]

From what I understand The chinese leak (rugby monkey,ect) and the concept art, (Mallow included) are connected in that the chinese leak mentions the starters being an archer, a wrestler and a water/fairy siren (renewing interest in the preceding concept art) but ultimately they are separate. (For example It could be a piggyback by the Chinese leak even if most of the other info is true.)

Then the riddler has pretty much accepted them as real, and he's the most reliable source yet. So if he says they're real I buy it. That and the more I think about how the starters are designed and made, the more the make sense as the starter's final evos.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Here's my source: http://http://pokejungle.net/2016/08/01/chinese-rumor-leaked-starter-evolutions-confirmed-true/
I'm pretty sure that based on this they are the same leak but pokejungle could have gotten it wrong.

The Starter Art Leak and the Chinese Leak are separate. PokeJungle only included them together because the art (once it was confirmed real via The Great Mallow Incident) helped to validate the leak.

 

[Dialga101010]

Hmm... Are you certain on that I haven't found anything that explicitly links the two or separates them as separate leaks now that I'm looking into it. I got info on the leaks a few days after they were taken down from their original posting so if you saw them originally posted then I'm sure you're right.

 

[Sakuraba]

I totally agree with this. I think they started the game as Pokemon Z, to actually give Zygarde a reason to exist and make sense of mega evolutions, but probably didn't think there was enough there to warrant a game and just decided to roll it into a new generation and kind of let their minds run wild after visiting Hawaii. Which I'm glad about since this seems like the best game since Black and White and maybe the best ever.

First off: No. No Pokemon game will surpass Black & White. And I bet you five finger of your choice that SM will be bashed and attack for at least an year after it's release.

And I highly doubt Pokemon Z was ever considerate. Given the difference in tech from XY to SM.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Hmm... Are you certain on that I haven't found anything that explicitly links the two or separates them as separate leaks now that I'm looking into it. I got info on the leaks a few days after they were taken down from their original posting so if you saw them originally posted then I'm sure you're right.

The art leaked on June 4th, and the Chinese Leak dropped on July 8th. Here, use this image to help keep everything straight:

http://i.imgtc.com/8epT6Ir.png

 

[B. Thunder Tiger]

Then the riddler has pretty much accepted them as real, and he's the most reliable source yet. So if he says they're real I buy it. That and the more I think about how the starters are designed and made, the more the make sense as the starter's final evos.

Pretty much everyone by now has accepted that the Wrestler, Siren and Archer are the final evos for the Starters. There is no doubt there, and it would still not change my decision in using Litten. The question, however, remains, whether the Starters have alternate evo forms as it has been speculated heavily since the reveal of Rockruff's Secret Evolution, and whether the Archer. Siren and Heel Wrestler are the Night Forms or not.

 

[knightwolf09]

Pretty much everyone by now has accepted that the Wrestler, Siren and Archer are the final evos for the Starters. There is no doubt there, and it would still not change my decision in using Litten. The question, however, remains, whether the Starters have alternate evo forms as it has been speculated heavily since the reveal of Rockruff's Secret Evolution, and whether the Archer. Siren and Heel Wrestler are the Night Forms or not.

If you ever seen TheOneIntegral's theory video about the theme of Sun and Moon being beat vs humanoid, making the concept starters we see as the moon version forms, and the sun version forms being more beastial, or in which case 80% percent of the communities personal tastes in pokemon. Last night I actually did come up with designs for the supposed beastial forms last night, and while I personally think they don't have nearly as much personality as the concepts, these are probably what you would expect from sun version forms.

http://imgur.com/a/pDUUD

 

[JVLightningLover]

Pretty much everyone by now has accepted that the Wrestler, Siren and Archer are the final evos for the Starters. There is no doubt there, and it would still not change my decision in using Litten. The question, however, remains, whether the Starters have alternate evo forms as it has been speculated heavily since the reveal of Rockruff's Secret Evolution, and whether the Archer. Siren and Heel Wrestler are the Night Forms or not.

Yes, that is the question. The exact translation from CoroCoro in regards to Rockruff's secret as it relates to the Starters is:

“There is a secret hidden in that little body. In fact, there are also surprising secrets about the starter Pokémon too…!?”

It doesn't explicitly say that its secret is connected to the Starters' secret(s), We mostly just assumed there was a connection, since both were mentioned together, but then the question remains; why have we seen the artwork for one form of each Starter Evo, and not both?

Some have speculated that the Starters will get Synchro/Z-Forms, but the only leak supporting that (the artaleaka leak) was DOA. It could possibly be signature Z-Moves, with them being the only Gen 7 Mons to get them. Honestly, it could be any number of things.

Hopefully seeing the Starters' mid-Evos (which should pop up some time next month) will shed a little light on things.

 

[Taodragon]

If you ever seen TheOneIntegral's theory video about the theme of Sun and Moon being beat vs humanoid, making the concept starters we see as the moon version forms, and the sun version forms being more beastial, or in which case 80% percent of the communities personal tastes in pokemon. Last night I actually did come up with designs for the supposed beastial forms last night, and while I personally think they don't have nearly as much personality as the concepts, these are probably what you would expect from sun version forms.

http://imgur.com/a/pDUUD

Hmm, I'm still not sure I completely subscribe to the idea that the "Sun forms" would be more bestial. I can see where they're coming from with UB-02 Absorbtion and of course Lycanroc, both of which are different takes on a different form of Ultra Beast/Pokémon, but Passimian and Oranguru are pretty even in their human traits and the rest are kind of neutral off the top of my head. So unless it's a form specific thing or more Sun/Moon exclusive things lean in that direction, I could easily see the 'humanoid vs. bestial" theme to be coincidence.

With that said, what you did draw is a possibility for their potential forms, though I will agree that they'd need a bit more to their designs to make them pop like some of their counterparts.

 

[knightwolf09]

Hmm, I'm still not sure I completely subscribe to the idea that the "Sun forms" would be more bestial. I can see where they're coming from with UB-02 Absorbtion and of course Lycanroc, both of which are different takes on a different form of Ultra Beast/Pokémon, but Passimian and Oranguru are pretty even in their human traits and the rest are kind of neutral off the top of my head. So unless it's a form specific thing or more Sun/Moon exclusive things lean in that direction, I could easily see the 'humanoid vs. bestial" theme to be coincidence.

With that said, what you did draw is a possibility for their potential forms, though I will agree that they'd need a bit more to their designs to make them pop like some of their counterparts.

The sad thing is though, this is what people want. You have any idea, how much love these forms got? This is why I said 80% of the community prefer this. They don't want monsters, they want animals.

 

[Sakuraba]

The sad thing is though, this is what people want. You have any idea, how much love these forms got? This is why I said 80% of the community prefer this. They don't want monsters, they want animals.

Worst part is, if it were to happen (which it won't) most people would buy the version with them. Ergo, promoting a lazier design from GF for the 8th gen and onwards.

 

[Taodragon]

The sad thing is though, this is what people want. You have any idea, how much love these forms got? This is why I said 80% of the community prefer this. They don't want monsters, they want animals.

I'd say it's more complex then that (and dependant on what you see as monstrous). UB-02 Beauty is much more humanoid then Absorption is, which is more animal-like, yet the former seems to be more popular then the latter from a general perspective.

So I don't think bestial starters would automatically be more popular, as always, it's going to depend on the design and how received they are to the fandom.

Worst part is, if it were to happen (which it won't) most people would buy the version with them. Ergo, promoting a lazier design from GF for the 8th gen and onwards.

And what makes you think they'd be 'lazier' if they went the bestial route? There's a lot you can do to make a Pokémon unique in an animalistic form, Pokémon has done it multiple times over and can do it again. You don't need a design to be humanoid to be a more complex design just as much as you don't need a design to be bestial to be simplistic, and ironically, you're making the same blanket statements that you're accusing others of by assuming things like that.

It also ignores that people have been receptive to designs that are humanoid just as much as their bestial counterparts, just look at Greninja.

 

[sandtreamftw]

I really don't think you should be basing a large part of the communities' preference with those beast concepts. They are crudely done, with little detail. That concept Rowlett3 alt form is basically the leaked one, but stripped of his details. No offense to your work, Knightwolf09

 

[knightwolf09]

I really don't think you should be basing a large part of the communities' preference with those beast concepts. They are crudely done, with little detail. That concept Rowlett3 alt form is basically the leaked one, but stripped of his details. No offense to your work, Knightwolf09

Oh I was mostly aiming for that. I took examples from Lycanroc's split form and came up with designs to make them similar enough that you can recognize them as the same pokemon but with their own differences. And this is what I got, and the pretty much the best case of what we'd get. You have to remember that they're supposed to be the same pokemon, hence why there's not to drastic of changes.

 

[sandtreamftw]

Oh I was mostly aiming for that. I took examples from Lycanroc's split form and came up with designs to make them similar enough that you can recognize them as the same pokemon but with their own differences. And this is what I got, and the pretty much the best case of what we'd get. You have to remember that they're supposed to be the same pokemon, hence why there's not to drastic of changes.

I still think we should wait and see what they look like before judging if there are alternate forms at all. I think the main reason people want another form is actually more to do with still keeping an air of mystery around the starters. Be it a beast concept or no, people just want something else to look forward to.