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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
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knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I still think we should wait and see what they look like before judging if there are alternate forms at all. I think the main reason people want another form is actually more to do with still keeping an air of mystery around the starters. Be it a beast concept or no, people just want something else to look forward to.

I don't know. After seeing most of the responses to these final forms, it feels like most only want multiple forms as form of hope to have a reason not boxing their starters. I feel like it is mostly because they simply don't like the designs and just hope there's another chance to have a design that caters to them better. Though I know that some want it to happen cause it'd be interesting to see.
 

sandtreamftw

On and Off Trainer
I don't know. After seeing most of the responses to these final forms, it feels like most only want multiple forms as form of hope to have a reason not boxing their starters. I feel like it is mostly because they simply don't like the designs and just hope there's another chance to have a design that caters to them better. Though I know that some want it to happen cause it'd be interesting to see.

I'm confident most of those people are just pro-Litten groups dreading at the possibility of another Fire/Fighting. The other camps from what I've seen seem satisifed, even saw some switching their choice to Popplio because of its final evo.
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
If you ever seen TheOneIntegral's theory video about the theme of Sun and Moon being beat vs humanoid, making the concept starters we see as the moon version forms, and the sun version forms being more beastial, or in which case 80% percent of the communities personal tastes in pokemon. Last night I actually did come up with designs for the supposed beastial forms last night, and while I personally think they don't have nearly as much personality as the concepts, these are probably what you would expect from sun version forms.

http://imgur.com/a/pDUUD

I have seen the video, but I disagree on the idea that the bestial forms can't be more than simplistic, nor do I agree that the supposed sun forms you drew (which isn't bad), is already something you can say for sure "yeah, that's going to be it!".

For a example, go look at DeviantArt for fan-made evos for the Starters, and look at the quad ones. A lot of them are pretty creative in my mind. The video even showed one of Litten, whose art I can't find back, but was stated as a Fire/Ground type Saber-toothed tiger PKMN. That one oozed a lot of nice design elements, even for a mere quad.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I have seen the video, but I disagree on the idea that the bestial forms can't be more than simplistic, nor do I agree that the supposed sun forms you drew (which isn't bad), is already something you can say for sure "yeah, that's going to be it!".

For a example, go look at DeviantArt for fan-made evos for the Starters, and look at the quad ones. A lot of them are pretty creative in my mind. The video even showed one of Litten, whose art I can't find back, but was stated as a Fire/Ground type Saber-toothed tiger PKMN. That one oozed a lot of nice design elements, even for a mere quad.

You miss the point the the split forms are supposed to be recognizable as the same pokemon because they ARE the same pokemon. I know the art you are talking about, and that strays too far what split forms are supposed to be. What you're looking for should be a different evolution entirely.
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
You miss the point the the split forms are supposed to be recognizable as the same pokemon because they ARE the same pokemon. I know the art you are talking about, and that strays too far what split forms are supposed to be. What you're looking for should be a different evolution entirely.

Yes, supposed to be recognizable, so yes I do get the point actually. However, what people don't want, is to have carbon copies. Really, you think people are going to be happy more if Litten3's form was just on four legs and that was it, as how your art shows? I highly doubt they would go with that. That would be way too boring, and I can predict people would still hate it. Also, the Split Forms, if true, would likely still be Version exclusive, meaning, they will surely be similar, but also be different. If so, it only makes more sense to make these forms distinct, yet familiar and unique to their version. People can still train, breed and trade their exclusive evolutions. Whether they want to do this or not, is up to them, but its not something unobtainable.

More, for all we know, the Evolution difference could kick in at the first stage, rather than the first stage. The typings can also change because of these forms. Just because Rockruff kept its Type throughout both its evolutionary forms, doesn't automatically mean the starters will do so the same, seeing as they and Rockruff do not share the secret as it was said. Of course, the secret itself can still be the same in a general manner, but be different for the starters this time ahead. The outrage about the Final Evos for the starters, mainly for Litten, is because a lot of people don't want to see Fire/Fighting anymore after getting the type combo 3 gens in a row. Can you blame them for looking at Litten for the first time and coming out with negative responses? I sure can't blame them. Of course, it doesn't help that Fighting emphasizes a lot with humanoid fighters, seeing as Fighting type can also work for Quad bodied PKMN.

Seeing as Litten3's Final Evo Form is Fire/Dark, this makes Litten's evo atleast somewhat different, for me anyways, as I'm still going to choose him if there is no other form to pick, because I mainly have a bias for felines. That or Popplio, whose final evo looking dang majestic and unique.

For the rest, concerning the art on DA, I was just giving a example of how some Quad evos of Litten can still work and still look great, simple and nice. I never once said "that is what the split evos should be or are going to be". Even I am not that delusional to think that way. Of course, its to note that I'm pointing out specific examples, not the idiotic moronic art pieces.
 
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knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
Yes, supposed to be recognizable, so yes I do get the point actually. However, what people don't want, is to have carbon copies. Really, you think people are going to be happy more if Litten3's form was just on four legs and that was it, as how your art shows? I highly doubt they would go with that. That would be way too boring, and I can predict people would still hate it. Also, the Split Forms, if true, would likely still be Version exclusive, meaning, they will surely be similar, but also be different. If so, it only makes more sense to make these forms distinct, yet familiar and unique to their version. People can still train, breed and trade their exclusive evolutions. Whether they want to do this or not, is up to them, but its not something unobtainable.

More, for all we know, the Evolution difference could kick in at the first stage, rather than the first stage. The typings can also change because of these forms. Just because Rockruff kept its Type throughout both its evolutionary forms, doesn't automatically mean the starters will do so the same, seeing as they and Rockruff do not share the secret as it was said. Of course, the secret itself can still be the same in a general manner, but be different for the starters this time ahead. The outrage about the Final Evos for the starters, mainly for Litten, is because a lot of people don't want to see Fire/Fighting anymore after getting the type combo 3 gens in a row. Can you blame them for looking at Litten for the first time and coming out with negative responses? I sure can't blame them. Of course, it doesn't help that Fighting emphasizes a lot with humanoid fighters, seeing as Fighting type can also work for Quad bodied PKMN.

Seeing as Litten3's Final Evo Form is Fire/Dark, this makes Litten's evo atleast somewhat different, for me anyways, as I'm still going to choose him if there is no other form to pick, because I mainly have a bias for felines. That or Popplio, whose final evo looking dang majestic and unique.

For the rest, concerning the art on DA, I was just giving a example of how some Quad evos of Litten can still work and still look great, simple and nice. I never once said "that is what the split evos should be or are going to be". Even I am not that delusional to think that way. Of course, its to note that I'm pointing out specific examples, not the idiotic moronic art pieces.

Don't really see how these are carbon copies. They seem distinguishable to me. And yes, I have been told that these forms a legitimately better than what we got. So it seems like this is enought to make a lot of people happy. And it would be boring, but then again that's what they did with Lycanroc.
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
Don't really see how these are carbon copies. They seem distinguishable to me. And yes, I have been told that these forms a legitimately better than what we got. So it seems like this is enought to make a lot of people happy. And it would be boring, but then again that's what they did with Lycanroc.

Okay, calling them carbon copies wasn't really accurate, but what I'm trying to say is the Evo Forms don't have to look super similar. Lycanroc looks visually very different from its Night Form. The only thing remotely similar is their facial structure, but even that isn't 100% the same thing in exact manner. That said, if the Alternate Forms do make out to be legit, its not even proven if said Sun Forms will be animalistic/quad. That idea only came from Rockruff's evos being either bipedal (Night) or quad (Day). For the Starters, however, there is no way of pointing out stuff that proves whether their Sun Forms are going to be just as animalistic or quad. For all we know, Litten's Sun version evo could still be a bipedal in design.

For me, I believe, again if the Alternate Forms are true, they at-least will have type changes, unlike Rockruff, who kept the Rock type. Yes, I'm including those type icons from the official Japanese site. If so, the types for Sun may be, at the very least, be these in any order:

Litten: Fire or Fire/Ground (Day) / Fire/Dark (Night)
Popplio: Water or Water/Fighting (Day) / Water/Fairy (Night)
Rowlet: Grass/Ground or Grass/Fighting (Day) / Grass/Flying (Night)
 
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JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
Good thinking grass /fighting is a bad type
2337-3482-0698 3ds friend code

Grass/Fighting isn't bad. Breloom, Chesnaught, and (to a somewhat lesser degree) Virizion are all solid Mons.
 

Dialga101010

Dragon Trainer
Grass fighting is a bad type. Breloom is only OU because of spore, the rest aren't OU but do thrive in their tiers. Grass type weaknesses and fighting type weaknesses don't pair well because major threats tend to have consistently have fire, ice or psychic moves of substantial power. Chesnaught has a cool design but ultimately his typing makes his defensive orientation unreliable outside of his tier. Grass starter's success always comes down if they can outshine their type weaknesses, at least in my opinion.
 
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JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
Grass fighting is a bad type. Breloom is only OU because of spore, the rest aren't OU but do thrive in their tiers. Grass type weaknesses and fighting type weaknesses don't pair well because major threats tend to have consistently fire,ice or psychic moves of substantial power.

Chesnaught is on the high end of UU, which is still very good, and it still gets some OU play. Remember that tiers are not equivalent to quality, just usage, which is why Quagsire constantly flucuates from NU to OU, and why both Amoonguss and Tangrowth were hanging out in RU for a bit before returning to OU. A Pokemon can be good and still not get much play, so don't use Smogon tiers as your only measure of worth.

And Spore is fantastic, but Breloom doesn't have to rely on it. Technician and Poison Heal are just as responsible for its tiering as Spore is. In fact, it has a Smogon set right now that doesn't use Spore at all.

Finally, while Pokemon with that Type combo have 6 weaknesses, they also have 6 very useful resistances. Being able to tank Grass, Water, Electric, Ground, Rock, and Dark hits is incredible. That said, that only really matters for Virizon and Chesnaught, which are built with bulk in mind. Brelom is all about hitting hard, andunless you're running the old school SubSeed set, it is seldom expected to survive for long anyway. But when it is built to stall, even Breloom can be annoying to KO.
 

Julia Artemis

Well-Known Member
Chesnaught is on the high end of UU, which is still very good, and it still gets some OU play. Remember that tiers are not equivalent to quality, just usage, which is why Quagsire constantly flucuates from NU to OU, and why both Amoonguss and Tangrowth were hanging out in RU for a bit before returning to OU. A Pokemon can be good and still not get much play, so don't use Smogon tiers as your only measure of worth.

And Spore is fantastic, but Breloom doesn't have to rely on it. Technician and Poison Heal are just as responsible for its tiering as Spore is. In fact, it has a Smogon set right now that doesn't use Spore at all.

Finally, while Pokemon with that Type combo have 6 weaknesses, they also have 6 very useful resistances. Being able to tank Grass, Water, Electric, Ground, Rock, and Dark hits is incredible. That said, that only really matters for Virizon and Chesnaught, which are built with bulk in mind. Brelom is all about hitting hard, andunless you're running the old school SubSeed set, it is seldom expected to survive for long anyway. But when it is built to stall, even Breloom can be annoying to KO.

Cool I didn't realize other people love Breloom as well. It's maybe my favorite fighting pokemon ever, though Hawlucha is a close second. It's so cool and can be devastating with the right moveset
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
Cool I didn't realize other people love Breloom as well. It's maybe my favorite fighting pokemon ever, though Hawlucha is a close second. It's so cool and can be devastating with the right moveset

Who doesn't love Breloom? It's a boxing mushroom kangaroo-saur with stretchy arms! But yes, it certainly does feel the love, and it only seems to get better competitively with each passing Gen :)
 

Julia Artemis

Well-Known Member
Who doesn't love Breloom? It's a boxing mushroom kangaroo-saur with stretchy arms! But yes, it certainly does feel the love, and it only seems to get better competitively with each passing Gen :)

With them making the split of Attack and Special attack and pshysical and special attacks? Since than it replaced Ampharos as my favorite pokemon. Remember the days when Thunder Punch Ampharos could almost destroy everybody? Still I love Ampharos despite this. But back to the main topic I wonder if Rowlet will be one of the weakest starters ever it really seems to have many weaknesses and unless it's really fast and has better defense than I think it will could be destroyed very easily.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
Best existing ones we got

Rowlet: Sniper

Popplio: Serene Grace

Litten: Anger Point/Sheer Force
 

clbgolden12

Alolan (and soon to be Galarian) trainer
what hidden abilities do you guys foresee for the final evos?
Going of the leaked ones, I'm guessing:

Rowlet: Skill Link or Sniper
Litten: Moxie, Moody, Sheer Force, or a new Fire -ate ability
Popplio: New ability having to do with sound based moves
 

TyLogic

Well-Known Member
So how would one get a Hidden Abilty starter anyway?
 
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