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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
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glacialcat

Well-Known Member
Something more badass and less femenine, specially from the owl.

A concept that lead the finals evolution look like this for example, would have been real nice.

???

A bowtie wearing Preppy owl is.... feminine? It's by far the most male-coded of the 6 officially revealed designs.
 

MattySadler

Well-Known Member
After the initial reveal of the three starter Pokemon, I really liked both Rowlet and Popplio, but hated Litten. However, I actually really like all three of the evolutions, so much so that Torracat has caused me to start looking at Litten in a less negative light. I'm interested to see where they go with the final evolutions.
 

Froakin' Koga

Well-Known Member
I don't think Robin Hood was ever a snobby brat. In many stories his father was a knight but that's about it.

In late-medieval legends about Robin Hood, he was actually an earl that left for the woods during the king's reign. So yeah the nobility is there but not the snobbiness. And this interpretation of Robin Hood as a former persisted in the 1950's with Disney gave their interpretation of the legend. Haha this is a silly discussion. But I highly doubt they're in the design room and they agree it's based more on a CW American tv show than a household fairy tale
 

WolfeyStar

Ganbaruby!
Has anyone else noticed that the "torra" in Torracat's name kinda sounds like terra, like in earth?

I'd be ok with a Fire/Ground final evolution, as long as it's not "Luchalitten" in the end.
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
After the initial reveal of the three starter Pokemon, I really liked both Rowlet and Popplio, but hated Litten. However, I actually really like all three of the evolutions, so much so that Torracat has caused me to start looking at Litten in a less negative light. I'm interested to see where they go with the final evolutions.

I like Torracat too. I think it will work as a good compromise for people who love litten but hate Liften. They can just eviolite their Torracat in game if they want to keep the more cat-like qudraped. It certainly won't be as strong as the evolution, and probably won't have much viability competitively unless it has a great HA, but in game it should be strong enough, as those have been made easier and easier as of late :) Especially with all the extra training methods.
 

LockFelino

Sparkling Noodleboi
Has anyone else noticed that the "torra" in Torracat's name kinda sounds like terra, like in earth?

I'd be ok with a Fire/Ground final evolution, as long as it's not "Luchalitten" in the end.

I personally thought it was a corruption of "tora"/tiger. But I suppose terra could potentially work through the same logic
 

.Aerodactyl.

Well-Known Member
I personally thought it was a corruption of "tora"/tiger. But I suppose terra could potentially work through the same logic

I think the best way to confirm or debunk that would be to look at several names in other translations and see how they break down for hints. On its own, I don't think it's strong enough, but if a few other languages also make hints I could see it.
 

wunderkind

Well-Known Member
Well, as much as I love Litten, Dartrix might have just guaranteed Rowlet as my starter. The hair is just too fabulous.

Torracat's pretty good, too. I can see it turning into Litten3, with it getting some extra bulk compared to its base form and reference to its fiery cat-punch.

Not a fan of Brionne though. The frilly torso just looks odd to me. And those eyes...
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
Gotta to say, Torracat's name is getting more brlliant with the minute. In addition to my statement eariler and how I thought the name was constructed:

Update on Torracat's name:

For those who want to know, its possible that the name Torra may be derived from the following:

Tora - Japanese for "Tiger"
Ora - Hebrew for "Light" (its bell looks like a organic ball of light of sorts)
Ra - name of the respective Sun God, and its Egyptian for "Sun" *

(*) = The bell looks like a mini star/sun thing, and is said to generate flames. This could be akin to how the Sun emits solar flares.

Putting all of this together, the name "Torra" may literally mean "Sun Light Tiger". To note additionally, Cats were known to be highly revered in Egypt. To me, it looks like the Split Evo Forme theory could be true, and Litten evolving into a pure mono Fire-typed Sun-themed tiger for its Sun-Exclusive Evo. Now whether its bipedal or quad I don't know, and depends on your own personal thoughts. I will be honest though, I can see a bipedal Sun-themed tiger warrior working for the wrestler theme.

Along with that, there's also JVLightningLover's suggestion, which is just as brillant:

I'm surprised no one's mentioned this, but it is likely that the "Tor" section of its name comes from "torch" as well. Still don't know if we can count on Version Exclusive and/or Day and Night forms, though.

And finally, according to users on Bulbagarden, the word Torra may also be based on the words:

Torrar -> Portugese for "Grill/Roast"
Torrid -> referring to "the heat given off by the sun", "giving off intense heat", or/and being "ardent" and "passionate".

Pretty dang brilliant if true.
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
Nyahīto - Meow + Fire + Heat
Matoufeu - Tomcat + Fire
Miezunder - Cat + Tinder
Nyaohiteu - Meow + Fire
Yánrèmiāo - Blazing hot + Meow.

None of the other languages seem to imply an earth connection.
 

WhiteBlair

The Exceptional Everyman.
See, here's the thing.

Now, I understand that middle evolutions tend not to look all that great, but Brionne is bad. Popplio went from quirky adorable to DUDE EWW GROSS WHAT IS THAT in 2 seconds. I just can't take this design.

I so hope the siren evolution for Popplio is true, because that will surely save it and secure its spot on my team. If not, whatever it is, it damn well better not be a continuation of this Toddlers and Tiaras catastrophe.

The girl that you laughed in middle-school situation, is what I'm considering the middle and final evolutions of Popplio.
 

Weavy

I come and go suddenly
I really like Dartrix and especially Torracat. Brionne needs some getting used to, but I don't hate it.

I'm definitely going with Litten now. I've always had a strong bias towards cats, and this seals the deal. And unlike most people, final Litten doesn't bother me in the slightest, and I don't care if it's biped or quadruped, always found that stupid. If it is Fighting, I will moan a bit, but if it's Dark, even more sold.
 

JVLightningLover

Veteran Trainer
The girl that you laughed in middle-school situation, is what I'm considering the middle and final evolutions of Popplio.

Yeah, exactly. Brionne is always dancing and singing at weird times, has braces, always wheres a tutu for some reason, so all the other Mons in school make fun of her. But then she shows up at 10 year class reunion, and boom! She's an elegant, successful Poppliovely, and all the jaws drop.
 

Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
Already said that. Before the reveal it could have been either Robin Hood or GA but now it is quite obvious thanks to Dartrix snobby nature.



Yes but GA is a more developed character than Robin Hood and resemblance is uncanny at this point.



I don't think Robin Hood was ever a snobby brat. In many stories his father was a knight but that's about it.
Excuse me? Green Arrow, a character that has existed for 75 years is more developed than a character that has been part of British folklore and identity for centuries? Yeah no. He may have a more detailed lifestory just because what is written about him is more cohesive, as it has been overseen by one company for its whole existence, but I 100% guarantee you that far, far more has been written about Robin Hood, each new story retelling and redeveloping the ideas of the original legends and adding in new things and adapting ideas.

Above all else, GF are not going to base a Pokemon on a DC character, when the character that DC character is based on is far, far, far more well known across the world. And that's leaving aside the fact that Green Arrow is a licensed and strictly owned character they could get into a lot of trouble for mimicking, whereas Robin Hood is public domain. Because that happens when the first poems written about you are nigh on 700 years old.

Also, Dartrix makes perfect sense as a juvenile Robin Hood. Robin was presented as the alter ego of "Robert, Earl of Huntington" in a play written in 1598. Since then there have been hundreds of different portrayals of him as landowner or knight or some other nobility who became an outcast due to conspiracy, bad fortune, or his own design. As the stereotype of medieval nobility would suggest, he is usually shown as snobby and prim in at least the earlier stages of his life. Some even continue this into his outcast days, sometimes as a joke, to explain why he was so fixated on his green outfit. (Y'know, like how Dartrix is obsessed with his plumage?)

So yeah. If a Pokemon is based on a green archer, you better believe it's Robin Hood. Any similarity to Green Arrow is just because Green Arrow himself is based on the myths and legends of Robin Hood.
 
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Paul1985

Ana de Armas fan
My favourite of the three starter evolutions is Brionne.
 

Lykouros

Sandslash fan
Excuse me? Green Arrow, a character that has existed for 75 years is more developed than a character that has been part of British folklore and identity for centuries? Yeah no. He may have a more detailed lifestory just because what is written about him is more cohesive, as it has been overseen by one company for its whole existence, but I 100% guarantee you that far, far more has been written about Robin Hood, each new story retelling and redeveloping the ideas of the original legends and adding in new things and adapting ideas.

Above all else, GF are not going to base a Pokemon on a DC character, when the character that DC character is based on is far, far, far more well known across the world. And that's leaving aside the fact that Green Arrow is a licensed and strictly owned character they could get into a lot of trouble for mimicking, whereas Robin Hood is public domain. Because that happens when the first poems written about you are nigh on 700 years old.

Also, Dartrix makes perfect sense as a juvenile Robin Hood. Robin was presented as the alter ego of "Robert, Earl of Huntington" in a play written in 1598. Since then there have been hundreds of different portrayals of him as landowner or knight or some other nobility who became an outcast due to conspiracy, bad fortune, or his own design. As the stereotype of medieval nobility would suggest, he is usually shown as snobby and prim in at least the earlier stages of his life. Some even continue this into his outcast days, sometimes as a joke, to explain why he was so fixated on his green outfit.

So yeah. If a Pokemon is based on a green archer, you better believe it's Robin Hood. Any similarity to Green Arrow is just because Green Arrow himself is based on the myths and legends of Robin Hood.

Thank you for clearing this up. I am a huge fan of Green Arrow, but the original Robin Hood mythos should not be forgotten.
 

Shneak

this is a Nessa x Sonia stan account ✨
It's a good thing we got the final starters leaked. Ultimately today's reveal doesn't matter too much for my decision. But the Alola starters are *100 emoji*

Dartrix is hilarious and definitely cements it as my starter. I like the Robin Hoot evolution but I wouldn't have minded a further take on Blathers from Animal Crossing. Dartrix already resembles a teenage version.

"The Pop Star Pokemon." lolno. Brionne's ingame model is poor but her art and design isn't terrible. I don't like it too much but the siren evolution seems like an improvement. I still want to use a Popplio in addition to Rowlet but I don't want a Brionne for a decent portion of the game.

Torracat is fine. Doesn't really change too much from Litten and Litten was already a good design. Too bad it evolves into that strongmabomination.
 
In late-medieval legends about Robin Hood, he was actually an earl that left for the woods during the king's reign. So yeah the nobility is there but not the snobbiness. And this interpretation of Robin Hood as a former persisted in the 1950's with Disney gave their interpretation of the legend. Haha this is a silly discussion. But I highly doubt they're in the design room and they agree it's based more on a CW American tv show than a household fairy tale

I never mentioned the CW show :c

But I would shed more light on the matter in my comment to this other poster.

Excuse me? Green Arrow, a character that has existed for 75 years is more developed than a character that has been part of British folklore and identity for centuries? Yeah no. He may have a more detailed lifestory just because what is written about him is more cohesive, as it has been overseen by one company for its whole existence, but I 100% guarantee you that far, far more has been written about Robin Hood, each new story retelling and redeveloping the ideas of the original legends and adding in new things and adapting ideas.

Above all else, GF are not going to base a Pokemon on a DC character, when the character that DC character is based on is far, far, far more well known across the world. And that's leaving aside the fact that Green Arrow is a licensed and strictly owned character they could get into a lot of trouble for mimicking, whereas Robin Hood is public domain. Because that happens when the first poems written about you are nigh on 700 years old.

Also, Dartrix makes perfect sense as a juvenile Robin Hood. Robin was presented as the alter ego of "Robert, Earl of Huntington" in a play written in 1598. Since then there have been hundreds of different portrayals of him as landowner or knight or some other nobility who became an outcast due to conspiracy, bad fortune, or his own design. As the stereotype of medieval nobility would suggest, he is usually shown as snobby and prim in at least the earlier stages of his life. Some even continue this into his outcast days, sometimes as a joke, to explain why he was so fixated on his green outfit.

So yeah. If a Pokemon is based on a green archer, you better believe it's Robin Hood. Any similarity to Green Arrow is just because Green Arrow himself is based on the myths and legends of Robin Hood.

I was going to reason with you but then noticed your location and I presume you are taking this personally. Either way let me try. The thing with GA is it has developed more in those 75 years than Robin Hood can ever. Because, as you said, it lacks a single owner. Every story would be different. While GA kept on developing on its base story. People at GF are Japanese, if me as a non Japanese don't know about Robin's snobbish nature in several media, even though I have watched dozens stories, then I can't expect GF to know about this. Its also possible that the designer was a westner but I don't think they will let a person from West design a starter.

Now to the part why they would choose GA over Robin Hood when GA itself is based upon the latter? Because right now super heroes are much more popular than some folklore. A company like GF would want to capitalize on that. Naruto was popular they made Greninja, simple as that. I mean think about it, would you rather drive an electric car from Tesla or a 1950's Cadillac running on diesel? Besides they are getting fresh material without looking much further into some folk characters history.

And seriously do you believe DC would sue them for this? Unless they explicitly name it GA I don't think DC would even look in this direction.

Like I said before, in the past single Pokemon were based on different ideas. But just because it is a green archer its not Robin Hood. They might have drawn ideas from it.
 

Orphalesion

Well-Known Member
Yay! Starter mid-evo reveals!!!

Dartrix...you're breaking my heart, Rowlet looks cute and Dartrix looks awesome and then it evolves into the ugly archer owl with the goofy hood and wood glasses...why, GF? Why?

Torracat... Looks cool, I like it better than Litten who leaves me kinda meh.

Brionne...D'awww you look dorky, the classic "awkward phase" some middle evos have before it can become the glamourous mermaid. I LOVE her description!
Only I have no clue where the name comes from "Brionne"...does anybody know details?

Poor Popplio fans lmao.

Why poor us? Brionne shows development towards the mermaid, just like I wanted...

Thank you for clearing this up. I am a huge fan of Green Arrow, but the original Robin Hood mythos should not be forgotten.

The Robin Hood mythos is a glorious conglomeration of different traditions Robin Hood as we know him today is a mixture of the well-known outlaw (who wasn't a nice guy in the earliest versions and was killed by his sister who was a nun irrc) a Fairy-like character associated with May celebrations (probably the same source for Robin Goodfellow in the Midsummer Night's Dream) and a popular character from French Shepherd plays. Maid Marian was originally also associated with May celebrations, but independent of Robin (she was the original May Queen) And it it wasn't until the Shepherd Robin got a lover named Marian that the two may celebrations were associated with one another. When the three Robins were merged into one character over time Maid Marian simply went along and ended up as the outlaw's girlfriend.

The Arthurian Mythos is a similar glorious quagmire. Originally Morgan LeFay WAS an actual fairy who helped Arthur until he was baptized and then turned against him, Mordred wasn't Arthur's son in the beginning but just some random villain, Lancelot and Guinevere were first made lovers at the request of a French noblewoman who wanted a forbidden romance in the story and the Holy Grail wasn't associated with Arthur at all in the beginning and was included to give Arhtur something to do between building Camelot and getting killed.

That's the great thing about characters from folklore, they evolved so much over time

I was going to reason with you but then noticed your location and I presume you are taking this personally. Either way let me try. The thing with GA is it has developed more in those 75 years than Robin Hood can ever.

Lolwut? No, see the above and I'm a German/Irish born Australian, so I'm not taking that personally (and I doubt Inconspicuosaurus is either.)
Oliver Queen was developed more coherently but Robin Hood draws from hundreds of years of ballads, romances (novels), plays, folk celebrations, modern novels, TV shows, movies... It might be a contradictory mess but it's a huge body of stories with a gigantic pool of characters and scenarios that is still evolving as we speak and will likely continue to do so for a long time.
Also the Japanese often love Western media, even a couple of things that are pretty obscure here, who's to say someone at Gamefreak isn't a fan of one of the various versions were Robin hood is a total fop?

Next you tell us Captain Britain is more developed than King Arthur I assume?
 
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