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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
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john90

Well-Known Member
It also means you'd copy an opponent's Quiver Dances in singles, which will help you tank their attacks, AND you'd get extra Speed if something tries to Dragon Dance on you, making her an even better Dragon slayer.

but dind't Primarina go from dancer to singer?
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
but dind't Primarina go from dancer to singer?

Considering how pop "singers" are basically showgirls who dance a coreography to a "song", I'm pretty sure Primarina is a singer/dance/performer. Just check any k-pop girl. They are dancers.
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
I myself think that Incineroar won't be really fast, but rather be a enduring defensive/offensive oriented mon. Of course, this is just based on its design. I would be okay with it, seeing as I'm still supporting my idea about the Iron Shirt style, and its reference to one of variations including the word "Golden Bell", referring back to Torracat's flame sac. But who knows really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_shirt
 

john90

Well-Known Member
I myself think that Incineroar won't be really fast, but rather be a enduring defensive/offensive oriented mon. Of course, this is just based on its design. I would be okay with it, seeing as I'm still supporting my idea about the Iron Shirt style, and its reference to one of variations including the word "Golden Bell", referring back to Torracat's flame sac. But who knows really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_shirt

Imo Incineroar will not have more then 100 base speed. Consider that Rowlett will have around 80-90 base speed and primarina around 60-80, so Incineroar will be the fastest but not in the Greninja/Sceptile way imo. I can't see ut being faster then Infernape.
 

shadowF

Well-Known Member
But how would we receive the starters hidden abilities in the game?
 

john90

Well-Known Member
But how would we receive the starters hidden abilities in the game?

I hope that something like friend safari or dex nav will be in s/m. Those were extremly useful competitvly speaking.
 

SlimeStack

Well-Known Member
At this stage they should just have something in the post game that gives your starter their hidden ability. It's not like anyone wants the regular starter abilities.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I myself think that Incineroar won't be really fast, but rather be a enduring defensive/offensive oriented mon. Of course, this is just based on its design. I would be okay with it, seeing as I'm still supporting my idea about the Iron Shirt style, and its reference to one of variations including the word "Golden Bell", referring back to Torracat's flame sac. But who knows really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_shirt

Imo Incineroar will not have more then 100 base speed. Consider that Rowlett will have around 80-90 base speed and primarina around 60-80, so Incineroar will be the fastest but not in the Greninja/Sceptile way imo. I can't see ut being faster then Infernape.

Why does everyone thin Incineroar won't be fast? Nothing about it screams defensive, and Litten is supposed to be the fastest of the three. It's meant to be a sweeper, not stand there and take hits. Also why is it that Decidueye has to be below average in speed. It's also supposed to be a sweeper. I see people are just trying to keep expectations low.
 
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john90

Well-Known Member
Why does everyone thin Incineroar won't be fast? Nothing about it screams defensive, and Litten is supposed to be the fastest of the three. It's meant to be a sweeper, not stand there and take hits. Also why is it that Decidueye has to be below average in speed. It's also supposed to be a sweeper. I see people are just trying to keep expectations low.

I already posted this:
In the last trailer Rowlet has 47 HP at level 16 and in a different screenshot it has 50 at level 15 (consider that Tepig max HP at level 15 are 49). Now assuming it has something like 67 base HP (if 50 is the max it can reach at level 16) in pokemon history when a starter has a stat over 60 in its base form, that stat is never below 100 in its last stage. Now, assuming that Decidueye HP will be somthing like 105-115, looking at the speed chart of all pokemon, excluding Legends, Mega and Slaking (which all have a lot of base stats), there is not a single pokemon with base HP over 100 and a base speed over 95 (only Darmaritan has 105 base Hp and 95 base speed actually, when nobody else have more then 100 HP and more then 90 speed). So. in my opinion the best speed Decidueye can reach is 90.

The only reason we had to think that Litten was really fast was because it is faster then rowlett (which we thought was a really fast pokemon too). But if Rowlet will have 80-90 base speed, I'm convinced that Incineroar will not have more then 100, like gen 1 starters, cause seriously that thing looks bulky and I can't see it being faster then Infernape.
 
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knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I already posted this:
In the last trailer Rowlet has 47 HP at level 16 and in a different screenshot it has 50 at level 15 (consider that Tepig max HP at level 15 are 49). Now assuming it has something like 67 base HP (if 50 is the max it can reach at level 16) in pokemon history when a starter has a stat over 60 in its base form, that stat is never below 100 in its last stage. Now, assuming that Decidueye HP will be somthing like 105-115, looking at the speed chart of all pokemon, excluding Legends, Mega and Slaking (which all have a lot of base stats), there is not a single pokemon with base HP over 100 and a base speed over 95 (only Darmaritan has 105 base Hp and 95 base speed actually, when nobody else have more then 100 HP and more then 90 speed). So. in my opinion the best speed Decidueye can reach is 90.

The only reason we had to think that Litten was really fast was because it is faster then rowlett (which we thought was a really fast pokemon too). But if Rowlet will have 80-90 base speed, I'm convinced that Incineroar will not have more then 100, like gen 1 starters, cause seriously that thing looks bulky and I can't see it being faster then Infernape.

Isn't it kind of unfair to judge overall speed through Rowlet? Though I won't disagree that it's speed will probably 90 but only at the minimum. I give it 90-100. I also give Incineroar minimum of 100. Though I also agree it probably it probably won't be faster than Infernape. Or maybe it will, I don't know. Though I heavily doubt he can take a hit well. I've seen Litten's defenses, and let's just say it stays true to the Dark typing.
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
Dancer is a female only ability so that wouldn't work.

That... there really is not even a single reason to believe this.

I already posted this:
In the last trailer Rowlet has 47 HP at level 16 and in a different screenshot it has 50 at level 15 (consider that Tepig max HP at level 15 are 49). Now assuming it has something like 67 base HP (if 50 is the max it can reach at level 16) in pokemon history when a starter has a stat over 60 in its base form, that stat is never below 100 in its last stage. Now, assuming that Decidueye HP will be somthing like 105-115, looking at the speed chart of all pokemon, excluding Legends, Mega and Slaking (which all have a lot of base stats), there is not a single pokemon with base HP over 100 and a base speed over 95 (only Darmaritan has 105 base Hp and 95 base speed actually, when nobody else have more then 100 HP and more then 90 speed). So. in my opinion the best speed Decidueye can reach is 90.

The only reason we had to think that Litten was really fast was because it is faster then rowlett (which we thought was a really fast pokemon too). But if Rowlet will have 80-90 base speed, I'm convinced that Incineroar will not have more then 100, like gen 1 starters, cause seriously that thing looks bulky and I can't see it being faster then Infernape.

The primary reason we think Litten is really fast isn't that it was faster than Rowlet, it's that we've seen its stats and its speed is its highest stat, followed by attack, followed by special attack.

Now it could end up having a reversal (Torchic's Sp.Att is higher than its Att, Blaziken's Att is higher than its Special) but that's why people think it is fast.

And there are Pokemon with more than 100 HP and more than 100 Speed. Garchomp has 108 HP and 102 Speed, along with plenty of legends.
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
But how would we receive the starters hidden abilities in the game?

I think in XY the HA starters were in the friend safari, so basically as soon as people beat the game they had access to them. So you'd have to wait a couple of days after release for people to get them (assuming this gen offers HA starters post-game), and start breeding them so they can send you one as soon as you can trade in-game (to replace your normal ability starter). Well, that's how I'd do it because I only play story mode. If you're interested in online play, you can always beat the game and get one to make it competitively viable.
 

john90

Well-Known Member
That... there really is not even a single reason to believe this.



The primary reason we think Litten is really fast isn't that it was faster than Rowlet, it's that we've seen its stats and its speed is its highest stat, followed by attack, followed by special attack.

Now it could end up having a reversal (Torchic's Sp.Att is higher than its Att, Blaziken's Att is higher than its Special) but that's why people think it is fast.

And there are Pokemon with more than 100 HP and more than 100 Speed. Garchomp has 108 HP and 102 Speed, along with plenty of legends.

But you have not seen its ability, cause it was clear imo that it had an improving speed ability and decreasing defense (that defense was too low for a starter).
Of course there are pokemon like Garchomp and Arceus, the problem is that all those pokemon have more then 600 base stats (they tecnically give hp point to those pokemon just to don't make them OP in Attack or Speed). The only pokemon non Legend or Pseudo Legend, non Mega & non Slaking (cause all of these have more then 600 base stats) who has more then 100 HP and more then 90 base speed is Darmaritan (with 95). ALL the others have less then 90 base speed.
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
Went and checked, Litten had
Lv.14
Attack: 24
Special Attack: 22
Speed: 27
Neutral nature

While we can't calculate exactly what this means, Litten's Speed is somewhere between
0 EV/0IV: 82 Base Speed (absolute highest it could be)
0 EV/31IV: 64 Base Speed
252 EV/31 IV: 33 Base Speed. (absolute lower it could be)

I'd be willing to bet it is at least base 60 from this (definitely doubt it has 252 EV and 31 IV), which would fall into the "No starter with 60 base or higher ever has less than 100 when fully evolved" rule John90 has brought up.
 
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