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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
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Not open for further replies.

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
But you have not seen its ability, cause it was clear imo that it had an improving speed ability and decreasing defense (that defense was too low for a starter).
Of course there are pokemon like Garchomp and Arceus, the problem is that all those pokemon have more then 600 base stats (they tecnically give hp point to those pokemon just to don't make them OP in Attack or Speed). The only pokemon non Legend or Pseudo Legend, non Mega & non Slaking (cause all of these have more then 600 base stats) who has more then 100 HP and more then 90 base speed is Darmaritan (with 95). ALL the others have less then 90 base speed.

Hold up, didn't Miltank have base 100 speed and 100 HP? Also Chimchar, Treecko, and Froakie had HP close to Rowlet and they ended up as some of the fastest starters, and that's not even accounting for Nature and IV's or EVs. Are we even sure that it will even reach 100 HP as Decidueye?
 

john90

Well-Known Member
Went and checked, Litten had
Lv.14
Attack: 24
Special Attack: 22
Speed: 27
Neutral nature

While we can't calculate exactly what this means, Litten's Speed is somewhere between
0 EV/0IV: 79 Base Speed (absolute highest it could be)
0 EV/31IV: 64 Base Speed
252 EV/31 IV: 33 Base Speed. (absolute lower it could be)

I'd be willing to bet it is at least base 60 from this (definitely doubt it has 252 EV and 31 IV), which would fall into the "No starter with 60 base or higher ever has less than 100 when fully evolved" rule John90 has brought up.

Can you please post the picture where you saw it has a neutral ability? Cause I don't remember that and imo a pokemon with 17 sp.defense and 27 speed at lv 14 has clearly a naive nature.
But also assuming that 27 is its max speed at level 14 (cause there's no chance it has 10 more points hen froakie speed) and usually starters have max or 0 iv in the advertising, Charmender and Cyndaquil have both 65 base speed and their final base speed is 100 anyway, so this proves nothing actually.
 
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glacialcat

Well-Known Member
Hold up, didn't Miltank have base 100 speed and 100 HP? Also Chimchar, Treecko, and Froakie had HP close to Rowlet and they ended up as some of the fastest starters, and that's not even accounting for Nature and IV's or EVs. Are we even sure that it will even reach 100 HP as Decidueye?

Miltank has 95 HP.

And with those given stats for Rowlet, its HP is 50 at Lv.15. That places its base HP somewhere between

0IV/0EV Maximum: 86
31 IV/0EV Maximum: 71
31 IV/0EV Minimum: 68
31 IV/252 EV Minimum: 37

EDIT:
Can you please post the picture where you saw it has a neutral ability? Cause I don't remember that and imo a pokemon with 17 sp.defense and 27 speed at lv 14 has clearly a naive nature.
But also assuming that 27 is its max speed at level 14 (cause there's no chance it has 10 more points hen froakie speed) and usually starters have max or 0 iv in the advertising, Charmender and Cyndaquil have both 65 base speed and their final base speed is 100 anyway, so this proves nothing actually.

I was just following your logic that if Rowlet has more than 60 base HP, it must have more than 100 base HP as Decidueye. If that doesn't hold true for Litten's speed, I don't see why it should hold true for Rowlet's HP, and vice versa.
 
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john90

Well-Known Member
Miltank has 95 HP.

And with those given stats for Rowlet, its HP is 50 at Lv.15. That places its BST somewhere between

0IV/0EV Maximum: 86
31 IV/0EV Maximum: 71
31 IV/0EV Minimum: 68
31 IV/252 EV Minium: 37

What? In the last trailer Rowlett has 47 HP at level 16 and 50 HP at level 15. This means 67 base hp, cause there's no ev training in the trailers.
 

Oni Dekopin

Well-Known Member
Hold up, didn't Miltank have base 100 speed and 100 HP? Also Chimchar, Treecko, and Froakie had HP close to Rowlet and they ended up as some of the fastest starters, and that's not even accounting for Nature and IV's or EVs. Are we even sure that it will even reach 100 HP as Decidueye?



Here's what I'm hoping for Decidueye stat line

hp 100

atk 100

def 75

sp atk 70

sp def 95

spe 90
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
Why does everyone thin Incineroar won't be fast? Nothing about it screams defensive, and Litten is supposed to be the fastest of the three. It's meant to be a sweeper, not stand there and take hits. Also why is it that Decidueye has to be below average in speed. It's also supposed to be a sweeper. I see people are just trying to keep expectations low.

Because based on Incineroar's overall design, he doesn't look fast. Just because Litten has good speed, doesn't always mean the final evo will have better speed. But again, I'm only basing this on appearance/design alone. GF can still surprise us and make Incineroar pretty speedy despite its appearance not really giving me a speed-demon vibe personally. Especially when the evo is based on a wrestler, who I have always associated with heavy, strong enduring fighters, and because of that, I can easily see Incineroar having a good defense stat and being able to take a good beating before giving off a beating of its own. If I have to give it a Speed Stat with my line of thought, I'd say I'd go with 80-90 Base Speed.

But again, who knows?
 
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glacialcat

Well-Known Member
What? In the last trailer Rowlett has 47 HP at level 16 and 50 HP at level 15. This means 67 base hp, cause there's no ev training in the trailers.

I am not following you. A 50 HP stat means its range for HP at Lv.15 is 37-86.

If it had 47 HP at Lv.16, that means its HP range is between 19-68 depending upon it's EVs and IVs.

So actually the stats at Lv.16 are more restrictive than the ones at Lv.15 and suggest lower HP.
 

john90

Well-Known Member
Because based on Incineroar's overall design, he doesn't look fast. Just because Litten had good speed, doesn't always mean the final evo will have better speed. But again, I'm only basing this on appearance/design alone. GF can still surprise us and make Incineroar pretty speedy despite its appearance not really giving me a speed-demon vibe personally. Especially when the evo is based on a wrestler, who I have always associated with heavy, strong enduring fighters.

Imo will have 100 base speed no more no less, because Litten has between 60-65 base speed, this means it will probably reach 100 base speed which is not a bad speed at all.

I am not following you. A 50 HP stat means its range for HP at Lv.15 is 37-86.

If it had 47 HP at Lv.16, that means its HP range is between 19-68 depending upon it's EVs and IVs.

So actually the stats at Lv.16 are more restrictive than the ones at Lv.15 and suggest lower HP.

For instance, Tepig at level 15 has 49 HP at max ivs. And Tepig has 65 base HP. I calculeted all the HP stats for Pokemon in the trailer. If Rowlet has 50 HP at level 15, with 47 at level 16, it means 50 is (hopefully) its max at level 15. Again there's no ev training in trailers. Dragonite HP have none for example.
 
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Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
Frnech name of dancer is "danceuse" which means female dancer.
So yeah oricorio are female only and so is dancer.
Localisations mean next to nothing. The most pertinent example being the fact that Mr. Mime is just as often female.

Case in point: a male Oricorio.
 
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john90

Well-Known Member
So, this gen has a lot of feminine pokemon: Popplio line, Lurantis, Bounsweet line, Salantit2, two of the Tapu, Cutiefly2, Oricorio, Magearna. However people are only concerned about Primarina. Ah! Pokemon fans...
 

goodpeople25

Well-Known Member
And those examples are all completely equivalent right? Personally I'm fine overall with Primarina but I think there's something to be said in there. (Regardless of how many people just complain for the wrong reasons)
 

willprogresivo

Creepy Uncle
I love female-looking pokemon, even if they can be male. Gardevoir, Mawile, Delphox, Liepard, Gothitelle, Bellossom, Milotic, Dragonair, Meganium, and now Primarina, those can all be male but I chose them as female in my playthru's because they look female to me.
 
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knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
I fee like the number of feminine pokemon are in perfect balance with the gender neutral and masculine ones this gen. Like there's something for everybody.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
So, this gen has a lot of feminine pokemon: Popplio line, Lurantis, Bounsweet line, Salantit2, two of the Tapu, Cutiefly2, Oricorio, Magearna. However people are only concerned about Primarina. Ah! Pokemon fans...
That's because it is a starter, they always get special attention because they are part of the face of the game. Thus many fans feel they should appeal to as broad a range of people as possible, and looking gender neutral is part of that. Course that has the downside of causing what some fans feel are "safe" designs that end up being less memorable because of it. Say what one will but gen 7's final evos for the starters are anything but safe in their design choices.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
That's because it is a starter, they always get special attention because they are part of the face of the game. Thus many fans feel they should appeal to as broad a range of people as possible, and looking gender neutral is part of that. Course that has the downside of causing what some fans feel are "safe" designs that end up being less memorable because of it. Say what one will but gen 7's final evos for the starters are anything but safe in their design choices.

I would say I see plenty of guys that love Primarina for what it is especially now that they see it in game. I wonder if this shows that gender neutrality is absolutely necessary. All that matters is if you like it or not.
 

Inconspicuosaurus

Bone-ified dinosaur
So, this gen has a lot of feminine pokemon: Popplio line, Lurantis, Bounsweet line, Salantit2, two of the Tapu, Cutiefly2, Oricorio, Magearna. However people are only concerned about Primarina. Ah! Pokemon fans...
Gen 6 had just as many in the form of Delphox, Vivillon, Florges, most of Furfou's forms, Aromatisse, Sylveon, Gourgeist, Diancie. But I really don't see what the problem is to be honest. If you don't like a Pokemon, don't use it. Not all designs are going to be aimed at you. (Not referring to you personally, just any one person.) Personally, I find it helps to just not care about gender, or to even embrace the character of, say, a male Delphox or a female Emboar. You get a lot more enjoyment out of the game if just stop being picky or close-minded lol.
 

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
I would say I see plenty of guys that love Primarina for what it is especially now that they see it in game. I wonder if this shows that gender neutrality is absolutely necessary. All that matters is if you like it or not.
It shows its not absolutely necessary, but it also means that if one doesn't go neutral then some criticism from fans is to be expected.
 

B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
Looking at the Water starter, its kind of funny to point out the following. While a lot of people dislike Primarina, that is overall speaking in terms of polls and what not, its still the one Alolan Starter that is the most accurate when concerning the type of species they used to create it. Primarina still, at its core, looks like a legitmate seal hands down, only with longer flipper-hands, a stylish hairdo, and a long fish-like tail that ends exactly like a pair of hind flippers possessed by real seals.

It doesn't actually evolve from a seal into something entirely super different, and due to its design, actually strikes a good balance between being a actual seal, and a humanoid-like one without feeling odd or forced in either way, finished with elements of a mermaid.

It actually looks very elegantly, if not brillantly designed in that case. For all we know, it could have evolved from a seal into something super random, like a octopus. dolphin, or a sea-serpent.
 
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