Starter Discussion & Thread

[Genos]

Rowlet is already grass/flying, so why is there speculation of it somehow having a type change with evolution? Besides mega evolution, that doesnt happen.

I guess people think having a second type at a early stage makes it broken. With the weakness it'll have.

Imagine if Bulbasaur switches places with Rowlet. "Grass/Poison? It'll get destroyed that easy!"

 

[Erron Black]

Rowlet is already grass/flying, so why is there speculation of it somehow having a type change with evolution? Besides mega evolution, that doesnt happen.

There's speculation because of the fact it could very well be based on the Ornimegalonyx upon evolving. This prehistoric owl had very strong legs(Like Rowlet is described to have) and was nearly flightless. Also the fact that Rowlet is described to have razor-sharp feathers it can throw like knives.

This leads me to believe that Rowlet's final evolution will become a Grass/Steel type.

Also in response to the bolded part: You can't use that as a counter example at all in the Pokemon universe. Remember the Eeveelution 'pattern' and the third Pokemon game 'pattern'? Yeah, kinda debunked those recently.

Why would Rowlett become Grass/Steel? If they wanted it to be Grass/Steel then they should have made it Grass/Steel from the start or have Rowlett as pure Grass and evolve it in to Grass/Steel. I think Rowlett is going to keep it's Grass/Flying combo in my opinion.

Likely because a Grass/Steel typing would be extremely broken from early on in the game? It literally only has 2 weaknesses and a good amount of resistances topped with a poison immunity. Grass/Flying is a risky choice to use because it's sheer amount of weaknesses and poor resistance pool.

 

[Nunn]

The whole steel type because of the sharp leaves is nonsense. If that was the case, razor leaf and leaf blade would be steel type attacks. Just because something is sharp and blade like, doesn't mean it's an actual metal blade. Razor shell is not a steel type move either.

 

[Bguy7]

But why even give it the Flying-Type in the first place if it's just going to lose it? They didn't need to make it able to fly. It could have been a flightless owl from the beginning. Besides, it doesn't really make that much sense to have a Pokemon lose its ability to fly upon evolving. It should gain abilities, not lose them.

Also, there's no base to even believe it will become this extinct owl in the first place. It seems much more likely that it will remain a normal owl, likely a barn owl by the looks of Rowlet.

The whole steel type because of the sharp leaves is nonsense. If that was the case, razor leaf and leaf blade would be steel type attacks. Just because something is sharp and blade like, doesn't mean it's an actual metal blade. Razor shell is not a steel type move either.

I agree with this statement as well.

 

[Erron Black]

The whole steel type because of the sharp leaves is nonsense. If that was the case, razor leaf and leaf blade would be steel type attacks. Just because something is sharp and blade like, doesn't mean it's an actual metal blade. Razor shell is not a steel type move either.

Well look at this:

Razor Leaf, Leaf Blade, Razor Shell. That's obviously a poor example because it specifically has a major typing reference to the type it is.

I'm saying that could be a HINT, not absolute total confirmation that it's going to be steel type.

But why even give it the Flying-Type in the first place if it's just going to lose it? They didn't need to make it able to fly. It could have been a flightless owl from the beginning. Besides, it doesn't really make that much sense to have a Pokemon lose its ability to fly upon evolving. It should gain abilities, not lose them.

Also, there's no base to even believe it will become this extinct owl in the first place. It seems much more likely that it will remain a normal owl, likely a barn owl by the looks of Rowlet.

Just because it'll gain the Steel type doesn't mean it won't be able to learn Flying moves lmao. Look at Golurk it can fly.

Actually there's a bunch of reason to believe so. Every grass type starter ends up receiving some sort of inspiration from an extinct creature. Venusaur is obviously based on dinosaurs in general, Meganium is a Sauropod, Sceptile has raptor/dilophosaur attributes, Torterra has some attributes from Carbonemys, Serperior has attributes of Titanoboa, and Chesnaught takes some inspiration from Glyptodonts. It's only logical that Rowlet would take inspiration from an extinct creature, and Ornimegalonyx is as close to an owl as you'll get.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I really think the extinct owl thing for Rowlet is pushing it

I get the Glyptodon thing for Chesnaught but saying Rowlet's evolved form is going to be based on an extinct owl...

At that point it's kind of like saying no matter what animal they have for grass it's ACTUALLY based on an extinct version of that animal

 

[Nunn]

Well look at this:

Razor Leaf, Leaf Blade, Razor Shell. That's obviously a poor example because it specifically has a major typing reference to the type it is.

I'm saying that could be a HINT, not absolute total confirmation that it's going to be steel type.

"It can also attack from a distance using the razor-sharp leaves that form part of its feathers."

This is what is said about Rowlet. It's using leaves, so why is it a poor example if all that was ever spoken about is leaves? Seems like wishful thinking to me. I don't really see a starter pokemon that starts out dual typed changing it's secondary typing. Starter lines are meant to lead up to the final form, why would they deviate in the middle?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think there is any rule they can't. It just hasn't happened yet

 

[Squirtortoise]

Isn't Piplup really popular in Japan? (Probably thanks to the anime.)

Idk, when 6th gen came out everyone thought Froakie was the bomb or at least my friends did and at the afterschool program I used to work at Oshawott was the favorite.

Though, I don't think it's so much that people don't like the water starters as much as it is that people are less enthusiastic about the starters looks after third gen and in some cases fourth gen. Personally I lost interest in the starters after 4th gen. I never really used any of the 5th gen starters when I played Black 2 and I traded my Kalos starter as soon as I could. The looks just didn't do it for me.

I heard Piplup is popular there yeah, but I'm only talking about people's initial reactions and not when we're given time to be exposed to them through the anime and whatnot, and I'm also only talking about the water starters post gen 4 because like I said, I wasn't around during the pre-release hype for that generation, so I have no idea who the favourites were initially, anywhere in the world. (Side note: I hated Dawn's Piplup, but Piplup as a Pokemon and just design-wise is cool).

At least in the English-speaking world, Oshawott was despised for sure when the gen 5 starters were released, but ofc there were exceptions (aka the people at your program, myself to an extent, etc.) (Another side note: contrary to my opinion on Dawn's Piplup, I loved Ash's Oshawott and it made me like it a lot more as a Pokemon). You could be right about Froakie, the gen 6 starters were definitely a lot more balanced in popularity, but I recall that at least on Serebii (if I'm not mistaken) it was the least popular and it's "white glasses" and "frubbles" were made fun of a lot on the internet I think. I guess Chespin and Froakie kind of shared similar amounts of dislike.

And no I agree, the dislike has nothing to do with them being the water starters, it's of course their designs. Maybe you're right that the designs of the starters overall since gen 4 have had people less enthusiastic about them, but individual starters past gen 4 have still been plenty popular, like Snivy, Fennekin, and now Rowlet. It's simply coincidence honestly.

 

[Erron Black]

I don't think there is any rule they can't. It just hasn't happened yet

^^^

This is the exact counter argument here.

It makes sense from a design point of view. I'm saying Grass/Steel-- IF it goes the Ornimegalonyx route. It would only make sense with the abilities Rowlet possesses and the Ornimegalonyx being an almost flightless bird. Just because one thing is typed ---/--- doesn't mean it can't change upon evolution.

Azurill -> Marill

Nincada -> Shedinja/Ninjask

Pupitar -> Tyranitar

Kirlia -> Gallade

Those are just some examples of it happening in past generations.

 

[hydrosharp_98]

I know it's unlikely, but if the cat goes rock and the seal goes fighting

They could have a circle with those. Flying Fighting Rock

Cat has a low chance of being rock, but Brimstone could potentially be rock.

And for the seal...Fighting is pushing it.

While I like the idea, I have to point out that Popplio would then have the potential to be 4x super effective against both Litten's final evo and Rowlet's (in the likely event that it learns an Ice-type move)

 

[Squirtortoise]

^^^

This is the exact counter argument here.

It makes sense from a design point of view. I'm saying Grass/Steel-- IF it goes the Ornimegalonyx route. It would only make sense with the abilities Rowlet possesses and the Ornimegalonyx being an almost flightless bird. Just because one thing is typed ---/--- doesn't mean it can't change upon evolution.

Azurill -> Marill

Nincada -> Shedinja/Ninjask

Pupitar -> Tyranitar

Kirlia -> Gallade

Those are just some examples of it happening in past generations.

These 2 are basically enough reason to believe that it at least COULD happen, because they are Pokemon that evolve through level up, just as Rowlet will.

 

[Squirtortoise]

I don't care either way, but to those who are saying "why would they give it flying type if it'll just become grass/steel in the end?", I have to say that that makes almost as little sense as the ones who are using the "throwing leaves like knives" argument for the Steel typing. They gave it a flying typing because Rowlet is a flying owl Pokemon, and it makes sense. What you're implying is that its evolutions should somehow influence the typing in its base form, which doesn't make sense because that's not how evolution works. Regardless of how reliable this extinct owl theory is, GF can easily follow it and create a design where Grass/Steel makes sense. The problem is that some of you are looking at it as if Rowlet would be "devolving" when you need to look at it as a "mutation" through evolution. That, coupled with the fact that there are examples of Pokemon that lose a type and gain a new one through level up evolution, is enough reason for people to believe a Grass/Flying --> Grass/Any-type change can happen. As long as design calls for it and there is a logical reason for it to happen, one which I'm not sure there is.

EDIT: IMO though, it makes much more sense to assume that it'll remain Grass/Flying just because type changes are few and far between. But my point is to show that there is basis for why people could see it changing.

 

[Aromatic Mist]

Why would they design Rowlet to be Grass/Flying when they could of just as easily kept it pure Grass? Larvitar and Pupitar go from rock monsters to full on kaiju, hence their type replacement. Nincada -> Ninjask represents the life stages of a cicada, with Shedinja being the shed skin. Kirlia -> Gallade is a bad example because it was a concept before Kirlia got a secondary type. Azurill -> Marill? Azurill is not aquatic, whereas Marill is.

If they wanted Rowlet to end up as a flightless bird, chances are, they would of made it-you guessed it-a flightless bird to begin with! And don't start with the 'ooh but Remoraid to Octillery!', because guess what? Remoraid and Octillery are both underwater-dwelling organisms.

 

[Erron Black]

Why would they design Rowlet to be Grass/Flying when they could of just as easily kept it pure Grass? Larvitar and Pupitar go from rock monsters to full on kaiju, hence their type replacement. Nincada -> Ninjask represents the life stages of a cicada, with Shedinja being the shed skin. Kirlia -> Gallade is a bad example because it was a concept before Kirlia got a secondary type. Azurill -> Marill? Azurill is not aquatic, whereas Marill is.

If they wanted Rowlet to end up as a flightless bird, chances are, they would of made it-you guessed it-a flightless bird to begin with! And don't start with the 'ooh but Remoraid to Octillery!', because guess what? Remoraid and Octillery are both underwater-dwelling organisms.

Lol, okay first of all: You just countered yourself there and didn't pay attention to my post one bit.

Why would they change Marill's typing to Water/Fairy when Normal/Fairy makes just as much sense? Why would They just not give Larvitar and Pupitar Rock/Dark when it makes just as much sense?

Those Pokemon change typing because of their design. I SAID Rowlet could change into a Grass/Steel type IF it went down the Ornimegalonyx path, which is a hefty, NEARLY flightless, prehistoric owl.

Right now I feel like a broken record because you guys just don't seem to be able to grasp the point I'm getting at. Be open-minded for once people.

Also a fish to an octopus is soooooo much different from a flying owl to a flightless owl. That's a terrible example.

 

[Nunn]

Thing is random pokemon lines have had drastic changes in the past to their typing. But starters have always been straight forward. They normally start out as mono-types, and develop from there. Bulbasuar started out as a dual type and kept it's typing throughout the line.

It's not impossible for them to change it, but it seems unlikely.

There is also 0% evidence pointing towards Rowlet having anything to do with the steel typing. Again, it could happen. But it seems quite unlikely.

 

[KKS-Lapras]

Lol, okay first of all: You just countered yourself there and didn't pay attention to my post one bit.

Why would they change Marill's typing to Water/Fairy when Normal/Fairy makes just as much sense? Why would They just not give Larvitar and Pupitar Rock/Dark when it makes just as much sense?

Those Pokemon change typing because of their design. I SAID Rowlet could change into a Grass/Steel type IF it went down the Ornimegalonyx path, which is a hefty, NEARLY flightless, prehistoric owl.

Right now I feel like a broken record because you guys just don't seem to be able to grasp the point I'm getting at. Be open-minded for once people.

I get your point, I think many people get your point, we either don't like your idea, or we don't see it as likely. We've already had a non-flying bird "First Type"/Steel starter before, many of us don't want another one. Just as in the same vein, so many of us don't want another Fire/Fighting starter, the thought makes so many people cringe.

 

[Erron Black]

Thing is random pokemon lines have had drastic changes in the past to their typing. But starters have always been straight forward. They normally start out as mono-types, and develop from there. Bulbasuar started out as a dual type and kept it's typing throughout the line.

It's not impossible for them to change it, but it seems unlikely.

There is also 0% evidence pointing towards Rowlet having anything to do with the steel typing. Again, it could happen. But it seems quite unlikely.

It's not impossible and considering GameFreak likes to set us up thinking they have a pattern only to tear it down, I'd say it's likely.

There was no reason for Bulbasaur to lose it's secondary Poison typing at all from a design standpoint. It kept the dangerous jungle-plant theme all throughout it's evolutions.

There is no evidence, correct, doesn't mean we can't theorize, and there's plenty of reason to theorize it could become Grass/Steel or even Grass/Ground.

 

[Shadow1275]

Some more thoughts I had about the starters:

Perhaps their unifying theme is "Entertainers" in general rather then a Circus theme. If Rowlet's little bowtie is any indication, he could gain a suit/tux of some kind through evolution and resemble a game show host (Or ringmaster if you do want to continue with the Circus theme)

Litten's firebreathing abilities and ability to set itself on fire make me think of a stunt man or a thrill junkie with lots of tricks involving fire
- "This Is Litten, and welcome to Jackass" xD

I think both the clown and acrobat themes of Popplio are obvious and have already been discussed to death.

Another thing I noticed is that I feel there is less excitement for Starters nowadays as the starters haven't introduced anything radically new for a while; they've been based on species we've already had since gen 5 when Oshawott was the last starter to be based on a previously unused animal (Otter) and it's been since Gen 4 we've had any new type combos (Grass/Ground and Water/Steel) introduced by Starters. For this reason I'm hoping that the theories on Litten's final form being Fire/Poison end up being true so at least some new element is introduced with the starters this gen.

Some last thoughts are that a dolphin Pokemon has been a popular request for a while now and Alola seems the perfect region to do it. I think its entirely possible that Popplio might turn into a dolphin Pokemon through its evolutions. I think its fair to say a Circus sea lion evolving into a performing dolphin is less of a stretch then a sea otter evolving into a samurai sea lion was anyway.

EDIT: As for hidden abilities, with Black cats being lucky in Japan I can see Litten getting Super Luck and Popplio getting Prankster, with it at the very least having Encore, Trick and Charm to make use of the Prankster ability.

Makes me wonder if Litten will be a glass canon high risk high reward character with moves like Takedown and flare blitz. Perhaps with high special attack and speed but extremely low defense and special defense

I bet Litten definitely learns Flame wheel

 

[Nunn]

It's not impossible and considering GameFreak likes to set us up thinking they have a pattern only to tear it down, I'd say it's likely.

There was no reason for Bulbasaur to lose it's secondary Poison typing at all from a design standpoint. It kept the dangerous jungle-plant theme all throughout it's evolutions.

There is no evidence, correct, doesn't mean we can't theorize, and there's plenty of reason to theorize it could become Grass/Steel or even Grass/Ground.

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that Rowlet's final evolution would have a far higher chance of being grass/flying than grass/steel or grass/ground?