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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
Status
Not open for further replies.
Given the pun is "Lit". Will the following evolutions perhaps follow this trend? Wordplays on Lantern, Torch and Beacon perhaps?

Well we had Tepig (Tepid), Pignite (Ignite), and Emboar (Ember), so it's certainly possible.


Was I saying you're not allowed to speculate? It's discussion & speculation, people are allowed to discuss and comment on other's speculation.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
I pretty much never pick grass starters... ever. Not for any particular reason... I have just always liked the water pokemon in the past. Rowlet though.... so cute!
I just hope I like the evolutions as much as I like Rowlet.

Funny, I'm completely opposite :p

I always pick grass, in fact my track record for starters is:

Bulbasaur, Chikorita, Treecko, Turtwig, Oshawott, Chespin, and now Popplio. There's yet to be a fire starter that absolutely woos me. Cyndaquil was very close to doing so, but Chikorita still beat him out :p I was going to go for Snivy in BW, but I couldn't resist picking Oshawott after Samurott was revealed. This gen, Rowlet just seems... off, don't get me wrong, I like the little owl, but it's design feels kinda simple compared to Popplio imo.
 

freezer1

Ice-type Fanatic
And what good what Rowlet's offensive capabilities be if all you're going to be doing is switching out? A lot of Pokemon carry ice type moves, and with the weaknesses Grass/Flying has(Fire, Rock, Ice, Poison, Flying), you're not going to be staying in on much unless you are absolutely positive you can outspeed or survive a hit and OHKO in return. Rowlet would be too risky to use in a meta where Ice type is very important and is common. A lot of other grass types we have now already are more appealing than a potential grass/flying starter final evo with all out offensive stats. For example: Chesnaught, M-Venusaur, Celebi, M-Sceptile, etc...

Of course it doesn't need to be OU, but you were saying it still could be viable... Standard competitive is OU, if it isn't viable in OU, then it's not a viable choice. Plain and simple. Grass/Flying isn't a very viable typing as we can see from Jumpluff and Tropius. Shaymin-Sky is so strong because of the combination of high speed and SpAtk with Serene Grace and Air Slash. I can only see Rowlet's final evolution being viable in competitive play(Assuming it retains the grass/flying typing) IF it gets an amazing ability topped of with amazing offensive stats. Basically, if it has poor defensive capabilities and outstanding offensive capabilities, but doesn't get a great ability, it's not going to be a very viable option.

This is the standard dogmatic view that plagues competitive play. Grass/Flying type... And somehow it's already being written off and we don't even know anything about it except it's type! I find this quite incredible to be frank. And yet you mention Chesnaught, Celebi and Venusaur in the same breath, all with their own double-weaknesses!
 

Class Zero

We have arrived.
My past choices were Charmander, Totodile, Treeko, Piplup, Tepig, Chespin... huh, I've had 2 of each so far :')

And this time it's between Popplio and Owlet, but it does depend on their evolutions :D
 
This is the standard dogmatic view that plagues competitive play. Grass/Flying type... And somehow it's already being written off and we don't even know anything about it except it's type! I find this quite incredible to be frank. And yet you mention Chesnaught, Celebi and Venusaur in the same breath, all with their own double-weaknesses!

Wait, what double weakness does Venusaur have? I know it used to have a double Bug weakness.


Since this is kinda a thing, I guess I'll jot down my starter choices, first for each region:

Kanto (Red Rerelease): Charmander
Johto (Soul Silver): Cyndaquil
Hoenn (Omega Ruby): Torchic
Sinnoh (Diamond): Chimchar
Unova (Black): Tepig
Kalos (X): Fennekin

Yup, I used to be a fire fanatic. Odd, because I dislike Blaziken and Delphox, I pretty much just picked them out of habit. I don't dislike Charizard, but my friends called dibs on Bulbasaur and I'm not terribly fond of Blastoise. I was actually planning on the Water starters for both Gen VI games :v
 

freezer1

Ice-type Fanatic
Wait, what double weakness does Venusaur have? I know it used to have a double Bug weakness.


Since this is kinda a thing, I guess I'll jot down my starter choices, first for each region:

Kanto (Red Rerelease): Charmander
Johto (Soul Silver): Cyndaquil
Hoenn (Omega Ruby): Torchic
Sinnoh (Diamond): Chimchar
Unova (Black): Tepig
Kalos (X): Fennekin

Yup, I used to be a fire fanatic. Odd, because I dislike Blaziken and Delphox, I pretty much just picked them out of habit. I don't dislike Charizard, but my friends called dibs on Bulbasaur and I'm not terribly fond of Blastoise. I was actually planning on the Water starters for both Gen VI games :v

Ah, misquote - I meant the M-Sceptile that was mentioned.
 

Class Zero

We have arrived.
I'd just like to point out that if M-Sceptile doesn't have priority then Spinda can beat it 1v1. Spinda competitively viable confirmed.

Honestly we don't know how viable it's gonna be, and we have nothing to go off other than it's possible typing..
 

2dtyplosion

Well-Known Member
My starters were
Bulbasaur
Cyndaquil
Treeko
Piplup
Snivy
Froakie

My Gen 7 starter will be Litten. He has the chance of being my favorite of them all.
 
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Erron Black

The Outlaw
This is the standard dogmatic view that plagues competitive play. Grass/Flying type... And somehow it's already being written off and we don't even know anything about it except it's type! I find this quite incredible to be frank. And yet you mention Chesnaught, Celebi and Venusaur in the same breath, all with their own double-weaknesses!

Okay just because something has a double weakness doesn't immediately mean we write it off as nonviable. Grass/Flying already has a track record of being well... extremely weak and nearly useless.(Sparring Shaymin-Sky ofc) It's just not a good typing at all offensively and defensively. Compare Tropius to Shaymin-Sky for example:

Tropius Grass/Flying
@ Chlorophyll/Solar Power/Harvest
99/68/83/72/87/51

Mediocre stats at best, two situational abilities, and one that Tropius can't utilize well at all because of his crippling weaknesses. His speed is awful, with below mediocre offensive stats and good bulky stats. You'd think glancing at the stats this Pokemon would be a great bulky Pokemon just based on it's defensive stats. 99 base HP is pretty high, and combined with 83/87 defenses can make a Pokemon pretty dang bulky. However, Tropius dies easily to any ice move and due to it's extremely slow speed, won't be lasting long in the arena against anything with a super effective move. It's got a decent movepool at best, but it can't make good use of really anything due to it's stats and abilities.

Shaymin-Sky Grass/Flying
@Serene Grace
100/103/75/120/75/127

Shaymin-Sky. It's got the ability Serene Grace. It's got strong moves that are boosted by Serene Grace.(Seed Flare with 80% spdef drop, Air Slash with the 60% flinch) It also has outstanding SpAtk and Speed combined with pretty good bulk in 100HP, 75def, and 75spdef. It can outspeed tons of things and get an almost guaranteed Spdef drop on Pokemon that switch in to it, and then you can flinch them to death with Air Slash. You can also run Substitute/Leech Seed/Air Slash/Seed Flare and go bulky speedy. Your SpAtk stat won't really matter as it's high enough and you'll likely be dropping the foe's SpDef stat by two stages with every Seed Flare hit. By doing this you can sub/leech seed and pretty much hax your way to victory. Of course, it still suffers from ice moves, but few things outspeed it.

Tropius suffers from everything about it. Shaymin-Sky suffers from it's typing, yet it also benefits by getting the STAB Air Slash and Seed Flare that it's ability benefits. Nothing about Tropius' typing benefits it at all.

Yet, Shaymin has a BST of 600. Starters usually have around 520, that's a lot to work with, of course, but is it enough to get Rowlet's final evolution to be viable in competitive if it doesn't have a good HA like Gale Wings or Aerilate? It's pure speculation of course, but undoubtedly Grass/Flying is more of a con than it is a pro as a typing for Pokemon in the competitive playing field.

Also, Chesnaught, M-Sceptile, and Celebi are all very good, you know why? They have the movepool, abilities, and stats to back them up. Chesnaught is a great bulky leech seeder that has Spiky Shield as well, but is barely beaten by Breloom, as Breloom has Toxic Heal and Spore. M-Sceptile is extremely fast and can only be paralyzed via effect spore and glare, as it is immune to all electric moves, in fact it gets a SpAtk boost when hit by one. It's got sheer power behind it with a 120 STAB Leaf Storm at 145 base SpAtk. I'm not even sure if a 2x Contrary Serperior beats that. It also has access to Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast. It can also go physical and mixed as it has 110 Attack. Celebi is another straight 100 through and through with stats. This makes it very versatile as it can be bulky or offensive, and it guess what? It has the ability and movepool to boost! It's a very great Baton Passer, slap a weakness policy on it with Nasty Plot and you can easily baton pass a 3x Spatk and 2x attack over to one of your benched Pokemon. It's got natural cure as well, which is useful when you pull off a nasty plot and get statused, then you can simply baton pass out and lose the status.
 
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B. Thunder Tiger

Well-Known Member
Well we had Tepig (Tepid), Pignite (Ignite), and Emboar (Ember), so it's certainly possible.



Was I saying you're not allowed to speculate? It's discussion & speculation, people are allowed to discuss and comment on other's speculation.

The way you worded your comment appeared to imply this. If its not, then sorry for the confusion on my part. Regardless, I will continue to stick with my own speculation regarding Litten until further notice.
 
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Class Zero

We have arrived.
Okay just because something has a double weakness doesn't immediately mean we write it off as nonviable. Grass/Flying already has a track record of being well... extremely weak and nearly useless.(Sparring Shaymin-Sky ofc) It's just not a good typing at all offensively and defensively. Compare Tropius to Shaymin-Sky for example:

Tropius Grass/Flying
@ Chlorophyll/Solar Power/Harvest
99/68/83/72/87/51

Mediocre stats at best, two situational abilities, and one that Tropius can't utilize well at all because of his crippling weaknesses. His speed is awful, with below mediocre offensive stats and good bulky stats. You'd think glancing at the stats this Pokemon would be a great bulky Pokemon just based on it's defensive stats. 99 base HP is pretty high, and combined with 83/87 defenses can make a Pokemon pretty dang bulky. However, Tropius dies easily to any ice move and due to it's extremely slow speed, won't be lasting long in the arena against anything with a super effective move. It's got a decent movepool at best, but it can't make good use of really anything due to it's stats and abilities.

Shaymin-Sky Grass/Flying
@Serene Grace
100/103/75/120/75/127

Shaymin-Sky. It's got the ability Serene Grace. It's got strong moves that are boosted by Serene Grace.(Seed Flare with 80% spdef drop, Air Slash with the 60% flinch) It also has outstanding SpAtk and Speed combined with pretty good bulk in 100HP, 75def, and 75spdef. It can outspeed tons of things and get an almost guaranteed Spdef drop on Pokemon that switch in to it, and then you can flinch them to death with Air Slash. You can also run Substitute/Leech Seed/Air Slash/Seed Flare and go bulky speedy. Your SpAtk stat won't really matter as it's high enough and you'll likely be dropping the foe's SpDef stat by two stages with every Seed Flare hit. By doing this you can sub/leech seed and pretty much hax your way to victory. Of course, it still suffers from ice moves, but few things outspeed it.

Tropius suffers from everything about it. Shaymin-Sky suffers from it's typing, yet it also benefits by getting the STAB Air Slash and Seed Flare that it's ability benefits. Nothing about Tropius' typing benefits it at all.

Yet, Shaymin has a BST of 600. Starters usually have around 520, that's a lot to work with, of course, but is it enough to get Rowlet's final evolution to be viable in competitive if it doesn't have a good HA like Gale Wings or Aerilate? It's pure speculation of course, but undoubtedly Grass/Flying is more of a con than it is a pro as a typing for Pokemon in the competitive playing field.

Also, Chesnaught, M-Sceptile, and Celebi are all very good, you know why? They have the movepool, abilities, and stats to back them up. Chesnaught is a great bulky leech seeder that has Spiky Shield as well, but is barely beaten by Breloom, as Breloom has Toxic Heal and Spore. M-Sceptile is extremely fast and can only be paralyzed via effect spore and glare, as it is immune to all electric moves, in fact it gets a SpAtk boost when hit by one. It's got sheer power behind it with a 120 STAB Leaf Storm at 145 base SpAtk. I'm not even sure if a 2x Contrary Serperior beats that. It also has access to Dragon Pulse and Focus Blast. It can also go physical and mixed as it has 110 Attack. Celebi is another straight 100 through and through with stats. This makes it very versatile as it can be bulky or offensive, and it guess what? It has the ability and movepool to boost! It's a very great Baton Passer, slap a weakness policy on it with Nasty Plot and you can easily baton pass a 3x Spatk and 2x attack over to one of your benched Pokemon. It's got natural cure as well, which is useful when you pull off a nasty plot and get statused, then you can simply baton pass out and lose the status.

..you do realise that Mega Sceptile is classed as UU by smogon right? And as you said "Of course it doesn't need to be OU, but you were saying it still could be viable... Standard competitive is OU, if it isn't viable in OU, then it's not a viable choice".. so, yeah.

Yes, Mega Sceptile has great offensive stats.. but it goes down in one Ice Shard from Mamoswine, Weavile and even an Adamant/Hustle Delibird.
 

Nunn

Pokermanz Meister!
Listing our first starters eh?

Squirtle-Red
Pikachu-Yellow ;p
Totodile-Silver
Mudkip-Ruby
Piplup-Pearl
Tepig-White
Chespin-X

I'm thinking I'll choose Litten for Sun. But I'm not 100% convinced just yet. I really like the other two as well.

Guess I'll wait to see the evolutions before I make a decision.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
..you do realise that Mega Sceptile is classed as UU by smogon right? And as you said "Of course it doesn't need to be OU, but you were saying it still could be viable... Standard competitive is OU, if it isn't viable in OU, then it's not a viable choice".. so, yeah.

Yes, Mega Sceptile has great offensive stats.. but it goes down in one Ice Shard from Mamoswine, Weavile and even an Adamant/Hustle Delibird.

M-Sceptile is viable in OU, it is UU, but it's still viable in OU.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-viability-ranking-thread-v5.3571990/
 

Class Zero

We have arrived.

Erron Black

The Outlaw
Aye, I wasn't sure if he was meaning what actual tier they're in, or what tier they're able to be used in..

M-Sceptile can be used in UU, OU, Ubers, and AG.

What I mean by viability, is that it can be a viable option in the tier as a slot on your team. M-Sceptile is barely viable, but that's mostly because Talonflame, Weavile, M-Pinsir, and Mamoswine lurk in OU and are huge threats. ^^;

So if Rowlet stays Grass/Flying throughout it's entire evolution line, it better be packing great stats and a great movepool + ability, or else it won't be a viable option in standard competitive play.
 

storm12

Weather Bearer
Given the pun is "Lit". Will the following evolutions perhaps follow this trend? Wordplays on Lantern, Torch and Beacon perhaps?

Thinking about it, after all the names I came up with (thank you for all the compliments guys :D ) the most likely actual English name for its final evo is probably:

Tigorch (Tiger + scorch + torch)

This seems to general theme in which Gamefreak usually name pokemon and it doesn't seem to clash with anything potentially controversial like Igniger/Ignigris does (even if they are cooler names)

Though honest, I do feel Tigrisulfurr has a chance seeing as how it incorporates Tigris + sulfur + fur + [purr] (could just eliminate the second r) which is what the most prominent (and speculatively prominent) aspects of Litten are. Maybe a few too many syllables though.

Thinking about it, Leafage (as leaf + plumage) would have been a decent name for a middle evo for Rowlet. For final evo I am hazarding a guess at Whistowlto (Whistle + owl + alto + slight pun on mistletoe) as I can see a potentially sound based progression combined with the knife aspect as it's dapper appearance looks slightly like a traditional music conductor.
 

Erron Black

The Outlaw
Well since we're talking about potential names, what about something like:

Rowlet Evos:

Hootwig (Hoot + Twig), Metalonyx(For the Grass/Steel theory, Metal + Ornimegalonyx), Lalilaka/Lalilac(Lalika[Owl in Hawaiian] + Lilac)

Litten Evos:

Empurr(Very close to Espurr ik, Ember + Purr), Inferneko(Inferno + Neko), Pokindle (Popoki[Hawaiian for cat] + Kindle)

No ideas for Popplio, but I think I may have discovered a little thing.

Ball in Hawaiian is poepoe, perhaps they used that and Sea Lion to create Popplio's name? This could hint at his water ball becoming more important as he evolves.
 

Kaasuti

MegaKaasutizard
For the first time Ever I feel draw to the grass type stater instead of the fire type. Rowlet is so cute, especially when he turns his head round to look at the trainer. Popplio though is too clown like for me. I've never been a fan of clowns, lol.
 

storm12

Weather Bearer
Well since we're talking about potential names, what about something like:

Rowlet Evos:

Hootwig (Hoot + Twig), Metalonyx(For the Grass/Steel theory, Metal + Ornimegalonyx), Lalilaka/Lalilac(Lalika[Owl in Hawaiian] + Lilac)

Litten Evos:

Empurr(Very close to Espurr ik, Ember + Purr), Inferneko(Inferno + Neko), Pokindle (Popoki[Hawaiian for cat] + Kindle)

No ideas for Popplio, but I think I may have discovered a little thing.

Ball in Hawaiian is poepoe, perhaps they used that and Sea Lion to create Popplio's name? This could hint at his water ball becoming more important as he evolves.

I can actually see hootwig for the second stage :eek: its a bit cheesy though haha, so just right for Gamefreak ;) Metalonyx is interesting as onyx literally means claw so it would mean metal claw. Though tbh it doesn't sound Grass-y enough anymore?

Whoa those Litten names just further draw attention to the existing similarity with Litleo and their trends in naming fire pokemon generally. I can see Empurr for the second stage definitely.

The Hawaiian inspired names are very interesting and original but quite frankly I just don't see Gamefreak being that fair out there, plus Pokindle to me anyway, has echoes of pork or poodle too much :p

Until I know where they are going with Popplio I can't think of many names. Bubblio seems a possibility for the second stage. Actually... Bouffion ( Bouffon [jester, clown]+ sea lion, with a hint of balloon/ballon and bouillon[bubble/puff/broth]) for a second stage. Its very french inspired though, so maybe not it's English name, if we were in Kalos though......

Final stage for Popplio: Boullion ( Bulle [bubble, bead] + bouillon[bubble, again] + bouffon [clown, jester] + of cause, sea lion) I actually really like this name but again, french inspired. All the puns work best in french! I definetely see the water ball becoming more important. in fact I see a signature move something called Aqua Ball that has mechanics like Psyshock or inverted psyshock.

I thought I'd just announce that Popplio has really grown on me since first seeing it, it is very cute. I am still fairly middling towards Litten.
 
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