Starter Discussion & Thread

[glacialcat]

1) That's right.
2) Still x2 to ice shard, sucker punch, shadow sneak, pursuit, knock off, which are reeeally common.
3) Aegislash did not. And what about enemies like Fire/Ghost and Fire/Dark and Fire in general?
4) It SE on Pychic and Ghost while both of them get access to shadow ball. What if the enemy has shadow sneak itself?
5) Right. Now however is no more SE with stab on Fighting, Grass, Bug.
6) True, but cannot kill them without stab.
7) When you are not a defensive pokemon, what's the point on gaining more neutral damage and less SE when you should hit harder and faster?
7a) All of them are really common in competitive.
8) Better an entire type then a lot of pokemon of different types, at least you know when you should defenitly switch. Also, what exactly can Grass/Ghost do to steel types?

2) But no longer weak to Stone Edge, Rock Slide (doubles), Sludge Bomb, gains immunity to Close Combat/etc. All common moves as well.
3) Fair, forgot Aegislash did not get it. But what was Grass/Flying going to do to stop any Fire types anyway? It isn't any worse at stopping Fire types than Grass/Ghost is.
4) My point was most things that use Shadow Sneak are going to be weak to Shadow Sneak itself. Perhaps Dicedueye will beat them to the punch.
6) Can't kill who without STAB? With what stats? If it has at least 117 Attack an Jolly Life Orb Brave Bird OHKO's a Conkeldur after Stealth Rocks. If it has 130 Attack it doesn't need Stealth Rocks. We can't make any judgements on what it can and cannot KO without stats.
7) Who says it is not a defensive Pokemon? We do not know it's stats or abilities. And dragons ruled the metagame without super effective hits for generations.
7a) All? Pyroar is common? Cacturne and Noctowl and Sawsbuck?
8) How does that make sense? It's not like you'll be in any worse of a situation when a Houndoom comes in than you would be when a Mawile comes in if you can't hit it SE either way. And Grass/Ghost can hit neutrally... neutral hits are important. Neutral hits are very important. Again, see: Dragons in generations 4-5.

 

[Skyknight]

1) That's right.
2) Still x2 to ice shard, sucker punch, shadow sneak, pursuit, knock off, which are reeeally common.
3) Aegislash did not. And what about enemies like Fire/Ghost and Fire/Dark and Fire in general?
4) It SE on Pychic and Ghost while both of them get access to shadow ball. What if the enemy has shadow sneak itself?
5) Right. Now however is no more SE with stab on Fighting, Grass, Bug.
6) True, but cannot kill them without stab.
7) When you are not a defensive pokemon, what's the point on gaining more neutral damage and less SE when you should hit harder and faster?
7a) All of them are really common in competitive.
8) Better an entire type then a lot of pokemon of different types, at least you know when you should defenitly switch. Also, what exactly can Grass/Ghost do to steel types?

I suppose my own worry is that neither Trevenant nor Gourgeist reached (and stayed in) UU or OU, at least from my recollection. So I'm worried about whether there might be something bad about Grass/Ghost in and of itself, regardless of stat allocation. I'll probably be picking Incineroar anyway, simply because together, Fire and Dark are apparently the least represented in the Alola Pokedex, as compared to Grass and Ghost, and Water and Fairy.

 

[john90]

Regular damage given Steel does not resist Ghost?

So you think you can face Scizor, Steelix, Genesect, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Forretress, Skarmory, Mawile, Aggron, Wormadan, Excadrill, Escavalier, Durant, Kefki, just because of Ghost being neutral to steel? The only steel type you can face with the owl are the one weak to ghost.

 

[Rsr57]

IMO:

Litten=Poplio>Rowlet.

Torracat>>Brionne>Dartrix.

Decidueye>Primarina>Incineroar.(Altough i like the three)

I was one of the lot who heavily dislake Incineroar when the leaks happened. Today´s video have fixed that and i am perfectly fine with it now. Still not enough to choose it over the others.
And among the other ones. I really like Primarina(those eyes´s colours are weird, but it still is very beatiful), i like its attack... but Decidueye...excellent concept, surprising typing(for me), I love its personality...It is close to Serperior as my favourite starter ever.

And thinking about which one to choose as my first starter... It is hard. Poplio line is the most balanced one for me(like Popplio, don´t mind Brionne and i firmly like Primarina), but i like Decidueye so much that i may use it instead even without liking Rowlet and Dartrix. Three weeks to think...

And with only the typings and signature moves, the three of them may have a chance in competitive.

 

[Paladin of Arceus]

Also I would absolutely not discount it's signature move. If it hits at least 80 BP, it'll be very powerful.

I can't honestly see that happening. Spirit Shackles will probaby get either 20-30 BP, 10-15 PP, 70-80% Acc, and 100% status, or 50-60 BP, 5-10 PP, 90-100% Acc, and 20-30% status. Either way, it'll likely get nerfed into dust because of how powerful its effect can be. Spirit Shackles would be absolutely meta-breaking with 70-80 BP, 90-100% Acc, 10-15 PP, and 80-100% status.

 

[glacialcat]

So you think you can face Scizor, Steelix, Genesect, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Forretress, Skarmory, Mawile, Aggron, Wormadan, Excadrill, Escavalier, Durant, Kefki, just because of Ghost being neutral to steel? The only steel type you can face with the owl are the one weak to ghost.

Neutral damage matters because it reduces your opponent's options to switch in. A neutral ghost hit won't OHKO any of these. But depending on Dicedueye's stats, it might do up to 50% on a switch in. And if Dicedueye outspeeds, that means these Pokemon are not safe switch ins! This is important for competitive play. You can't just look at every Pokemon in a 1v1 scenario. Neutral hits are powerful because they can deal serious damage on a switch. And importantly we cannot make any determinations on actual play vs. any of these Pokemon without stats.

I can't honestly see that happening. Spirit Shackles will probaby get either 20-30 BP, 10-15 PP, 70-80% Acc, and 100% status, or 50-60 BP, 5-10 PP, 90-100% Acc, and 20-30% status. Either way, it'll likely get nerfed into dust because of how powerful its effect can be. Spirit Shackles would be absolutely meta-breaking with 70-80 BP, 90-100% Acc, 10-15 PP, and 80-100% status.

Thousand Waves has the exact same effect and deals 90 BP at 100% accuracy with 100% effect rate and 10 PP.

 

[Pokemon Fan]

So you think you can face Scizor, Steelix, Genesect, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Forretress, Skarmory, Mawile, Aggron, Wormadan, Excadrill, Escavalier, Durant, Kefki, just because of Ghost being neutral to steel? The only steel type you can face with the owl are the one weak to ghost.

I don't see how you can say that when we don't know its stats, movepool or hidden ability.

And are Wormadam, Escavalier and Durant even used enough to be put in that list of threats?

 

[Skyknight]

Thousand Waves has the exact same effect and deals 90 BP at 100% accuracy with 100% effect rate and 10 PP.

{sweatdrop} I think that one is MEANT to be overpowered...

 

[2dtyplosion]

I like how the bubbles dissappear and the hair goes all over the place when Primarina does the signature move.

 

[Oathkeeper]

I was team Rowlet from the beginning and it just keeps getting better! Ghost is my favorite type, so I'm glad we finally get a ghost type starter...kinda.

 

[Froakin' Koga]

So you think you can face Scizor, Steelix, Genesect, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Forretress, Skarmory, Mawile, Aggron, Wormadan, Excadrill, Escavalier, Durant, Kefki, just because of Ghost being neutral to steel? The only steel type you can face with the owl are the one weak to ghost.

Let the record show that ghost types resist bug so yeah he could face scizor, forretress, worm, escavalier, Durant. And we have no idea what the stat distribution or HA or movesets will be so yeah he could face steelix, Ferrothorn, mawile, excadrill, and klefki. I don't see why he couldn't.

And let's be clear, I'm not saying he'd win against them but he'd be able to face them and compete and make it pretty much 50/50.

 

[LoveMcQueen5683]

I don't understand the point of Primarinas signature move because isn't a damaging move? Why would it be worth damaging my pokemon to get rid of a burn? (thinking of double battles)

 

[Skyknight]

I don't understand the point of Primarinas signature move because isn't a damaging move? Why would it be worth damaging my pokemon to get rid of a burn? (thinking of double battles)

The main suspicion is that it works like Smelling Salts and Wake-Up Slap. If the target has a burn, the attack will do double damage in the process of removing it. In other words, use it in tandem with Will-o-Wisp or Scald.

 

[SKyLineR32]

I like Primarina's name and I'm glad we finally have actual information on it now. It still keeps Popllio's bubble characteristic by using its voice to skillfully control them, so it's good that wasn't abandoned like some people thought.

 

[knightwolf09]

To be honest, how often will your enemy be burnt anyway? I could still be a decent damaging move.

 

[Golden_Latias]

I don't understand the point of Primarinas signature move because isn't a damaging move? Why would it be worth damaging my pokemon to get rid of a burn? (thinking of double battles)

I imagine it could be useful in double battles as well.

 

[john90]

To be honest, how often will your enemy be burnt anyway? I could still be a decent damaging move.

Flame orbs holders will be burned anyway at the end of each turn if hitten by that move. So if it double the damage on burned pokemon it's pretty interesting

 

[AaronLoves]

Wouldn't be surprised if Primarina's Sparkling Aria work's like hex, deals double damage and removes the burn. Scald could be an interesting combo move

 

[HydroBR]

About Primarina's signature move, it seems to be multi-target. If it's strong and you don't intend to burn anyone, it's a better Surf for doubles (even better if only targets the opposing side). If it works like Wake-Up Slap and Smellingsalt, even better. Worst case scenario, it's a gimmick move to counter Guts users, and you can just stick with Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump, since it's most likely an excellent Pokémon by its own, with one of the best typings out there (also, it looks fabulous).

Incineroar looks better animated than on static art, but is still on 3rd place for me. Decidueye just confirms that I'm gonna break my "always pick Water starter on first playthrough" rule. Damn, it's just awesome.

If Spirit Shackles has 60+ BP, it will be very good, specially since there aren't many physical ghost moves. Plus Shadow Sneak, most likely Brave Bird, and judging by the flavor text of Dartrix, I believe (Hi-)Jump Kick. It just needs a good Grass STAB, but I can't think of a fitting physical option. Maybe Leaf Blade.

 

[AaronLoves]

About Primarina's signature move, it seems to be multi-target. If it's strong and you don't intend to burn anyone, it's a better Surf for doubles. If it works like Wake-Up Slap and Smellingsalt, even better. Worst case scenario, it's a gimmick move to counter Guts users, and you can just stick with Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump, since it's most likely an excellent Pokémon by its own, with one of the best typings out there (also, it looks fabulous).

Incineroar looks better animated, but still is 3rd place for me. Decidueye just confirms that I'm gonna break my "always pick Water starter on first playthrough" rule. Damn, it's just awesome.

If Spirit Shackles has 60~70 BP, it will be very good, specially since there aren't many physical ghost moves. Plus Shadow Sneak, most likely Brave Bird, and judging by the flavor text of Dartrix, I believe (Hi-)Jump Kick. It just needs a good Grass STAB, but I can't think of a fitting physical option. Maybe Leaf Blade.

Power Whip maybe?