Didn't think I would post here again before the games are out but here we go. I'm surprised that the final evolutions of the starters were officially revealed, and so soon too (though we are pretty close to the release so maybe not after all). Don't remember that being the case for X/Y, but I guess things have changed... Either way, I really like the designs for all three of them, picking a favorite and one that I will start with first is going to be very difficult. I have a small bias towards Primarina and Decidueye since Fairy and Ghost are my favorite types, but Incineroar is really cool too. Now I just need to have made my decision before the games are released... Oh well, it stands between awesome, amazing and fantastic, it could have been worse.
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Starter Discussion & Thread
- Thread starter CrusherTheFeraligatr
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RandysRage
Member
Assuming they don't give the starters brand-new Hidden Abilities like they did with the Kalos starters, these are the ones I'd like to see:
Decidueye - Sniper or Levitate
Incineroar - Intimidate, Moxie or Tough Claws
Primarina - Pixilate or Serene Grace
Decidueye - Sniper or Levitate
Incineroar - Intimidate, Moxie or Tough Claws
Primarina - Pixilate or Serene Grace
BlitzGirl41
Well-Known Member
I know that this is going to be off-topic, but...I still don't understand what makes Talonflame "super powerful"? I've used him in a Y playthrough and never felt satisfied by his move list (I never ever use self-damaging moves, so Brave Bird and that Fire move are out of the question. Not worth the risk, IMO). I always switch him out for Noivern in the end (or in the case of my X playthrough, I'm using Charizard).
glacialcat
Well-Known Member
I realize you are not a fan of competitive play, but that is the answer.
But more generally Talonflame's Hidden Ability (which is not easy to get in a general playthrough) is the reason for it's strength. It has priority on all flying moves. It's Brave Bird will always hit first. It's Roost will always activate before anything else could hurt it. This means Talonflame is very useful at taking down anything that's buffed its speed with Agility, Dragon Dance, or Choice Scarf. It can be difficult to defeat because it's Roost will always go first, meaning even a Choice Scarf wearing Pokemon will not be able to revenge kill it before it heals back to full. And priority Roost helps alleviate the danger of recoil from Flare Blitz and Brave Bird.
Add to this some decent support options such as Swords Dance, Bulk Up, and Will-O-Wisp and you have a bird that can function as a check to speedy sweepers, a boosting Swords Dance sweeper itself, or a support focused defensive Pokemon thanks to Will-o-Wisp and Roost.
It isn't unstoppable, but Gale Wings is a ridiculously powerful ability that has massively boosted the usage of an otherwise forgettable Pokemon.
Just to keep it on topic: Before the revelation of Grass/Ghost, I thought Gale Wings was a possible HA for Decidueye. Perhaps Baggie_Saiyan's idea of giving it priority to ghost and grass would work, but I'd much prefer just giving it access to one of the two. Priority Grass would be incredibly powerful if it gets Sleep Powder and Synthesis.
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BlitzGirl41
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I never get hidden abilities on any of my Pokemon because I don't religiously breed them. Talonflame is a cool Pokemon, design-wise, I just always end up replacing it with something else down the line.
I guess I won't mind what ability Decidueye has as long as he ends up being fun to use. Chances are, though, that he will have Overgrow like every Grass Starter does. But...I realize this is the topic of hidden abilities....
knightwolf09
Well-Known Member
I went to look at the TCG cards for the starters cause I was wondering if they leave hints to their z-moves, if they get any that is. And I know the TCG shouldn't be the first place to look for hints of pokemon info, but I know some GX moves are actual canon z-moves like Snorlax. So can't hurt to speculate.
Decidueye: Hollow Hunt GX: Put 3 cards from your discard pile into your hand. So maybe a reviving move.
Incineroar: Burn Slam GX: 200 damage. The Defending Pokemon is now Burned. So basically deal heavy damage, and if they survive they get burned as punishment.
Primarina: Grand Echo GX: Heal all damage from each of your Pokemon. So a healing move. Kind of expected.
So how could these work as z-moves in the game?
Decidueye: Hollow Hunt GX: Put 3 cards from your discard pile into your hand. So maybe a reviving move.
Incineroar: Burn Slam GX: 200 damage. The Defending Pokemon is now Burned. So basically deal heavy damage, and if they survive they get burned as punishment.
Primarina: Grand Echo GX: Heal all damage from each of your Pokemon. So a healing move. Kind of expected.
So how could these work as z-moves in the game?
glacialcat
Well-Known Member
Snorlax GX's is based off it's in-game Z-Move, though I do doubt every GX Attack will be a Z-Move since... I can't imagine Lurantis or Gumshoos getting one. That said the starters are a very good candidate for signature Z-Moves, so it is possible.
As for translating these directly into core game style attacks... that's a bit harder, and even if they share the name I doubt they'll share the exact gameplay function.
All that being said, if I were to try to adapt these to the game this is what I'd do:
Grand Echo: 100% HP recover to Primarina. In a double battle it will also target your ally.
Burn Slam: Fire damage + 100% burn rate. Unsure of BP, but based on what we know about Gigavolt Havok, probably 180-200 BP. Despite the name it could potentially also be a Dark move that burns, if it's supposed to be an improved Darkest Lariat.
Hollow Hunt: The hardest one to translate faithfully to the main game. Potential options are reviving a KO'd Pokemon (I can not imagine this happening, at all), restoring PP (much too weak), restoring used items (but wouldn't even help Decidueye since it'd have to hold a Z-Crystal). None of these seem likely, especially since it's a very restorative attack and nothing about Decidueye's design suggests any sort of healing abilities. If Hollow Hunt is Decidueye's Z-Move, I imagine the card game took the name and nothing else when making this attack.
MysticKnives
Well-Known Member
I'm really hoping for this. 60% burn Scald hype.
I dunno about the card effect, but the name seems to suggest that Decidueye might be able to get around certain defenses or perhaps strike at an opponent who is fleeing. I looked up "hollow hunt" and most references were to a fox hunting establishment in New York called Windy Hollow Hunt. BTW, a "hollow" can be a small depression or valley, a wooded copse, a cavity as in a tree hollow (often inhabited by some types of owls), or just an adjective referring to something empty or meaningless. Maybe its just my experience but it sounds like it would be a Ghost-Type move.
Lulu_used_SunnyDay
Petal Blizzard
Aaaaand now I'm not sure what to do. I've always been dead set on picking Rowlet, because Decidueye is possibly the coolest concept design I've ever seen in the series (even though I'm disappointed it's not a flying type) but...
After I saw shiny Incineroar I can't stop thinking about it. I'm almost tempted to stay and reset for a shiny Litten now instead of starting the game right away lol
After I saw shiny Incineroar I can't stop thinking about it. I'm almost tempted to stay and reset for a shiny Litten now instead of starting the game right away lol
Huckleberry
Poison Trainer
I'm personally gonna wait until I have Bank access and transfer my living dex over to the new games. It'll be a hell of a lot easier to breed for a shiny Litten, especially since, from what we've heard, there's quite a bit of story before you get your starter.
If i'm not mistaken, Snorlax' Z-Move requires it to have Giga Impact, right? The starter's Z-Move could work similarly, but with their signature moves, being improved versions of them.
Decidueye (Hollow Hunt): the name actually kinda fits. It could be a volley of arrows instead of a single one, hitting all the opposing field. It could also either be a multi-strike move to get past substitute and stuff or always crit. Oh, and apply the trapping effect.
Incineroar (Burn Slam): Stronger version of Darkest Lariat. Single target, huge nuke, ignore stat-changes, and always burns. Might have recoil as well, possibly. Weird name for a Dark move, but whatever, it could be a wrestling move.
Primarina (Grand Echo): Damage to the opposing side (either sound-based damage, or play with its flavor text, making it control a barrage of bubbles with its voice, making them explode on the opposing side). Might heal the ally side at the same time, either HP or status conditions.
About Hidden Abilities, for less broken option then Serene Grace, Primarina could get Marvel Scale (the one Milotic has, not sure if that's the name). With that awesome typing and good bulk, could throw a good Restalk set. For Decidueye and Incineroar, the most obvious ones have already been said. Maybe Cursed Body, if they want to go the Ghost way.
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Leviticus20:13
Talonflame Falconer
Ghost? really? its practically the same as vampire or zombie, not my cup of tea. I hate fairy types too. There are lots of pokemon i dislike. There are few pokemon i like.
And please no more OP abilities for the starters, just give them overgrow, torrent and whatever fire starters usually get. We dont need another protean greninja. protean was not even a new ablity, it was an old ability, but on greninja made it OP. We need more balance in pokemon, not more OP pokemon.
I think we need more pokemon with abilities like water veil, insomnia, guts. Status ailments are getting more and more annoying especially with prankster pokemon.
Thank God crabrawler has hyper cutter.
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willprogresivo
Creepy Uncle
Protean was introduced in Gen VI.
GillianPuzzle
Physical Trainer
I really like Primarina and Incineroar the most! While Decidueye...basically Greninja of this generation with possibly bad stat, huh. I dislike Pokemon that are get too much loves like Rowlet, Decidueye, Greninja and Mimikkyu.
Though Primarina seem to have potential and my favourite starter, I think I will choose starter depend on their stats rather than designs. It mean I could choose Pokemon I disliked. I prefer starter with highest phyiscal attack so it's either Litten (obviously!) or Rowlet. But I don't think Decidueye can have good stat due to the lack of physical ghost moves.
Do anyone think Decidueye probably can have mixed stat just to be fair to special ghost moves and the fastest of three starters?
Though Primarina seem to have potential and my favourite starter, I think I will choose starter depend on their stats rather than designs. It mean I could choose Pokemon I disliked. I prefer starter with highest phyiscal attack so it's either Litten (obviously!) or Rowlet. But I don't think Decidueye can have good stat due to the lack of physical ghost moves.
Do anyone think Decidueye probably can have mixed stat just to be fair to special ghost moves and the fastest of three starters?
glacialcat
Well-Known Member
Well I mean... it has a signature move that is a Physical Ghost attack. Seems at least possible that it'll be a very good move and eliminate the need for new physical ghost moves. Or there could be new physical ghost moves, or perhaps the ones we have now could be buffed. Maybe Shadow Claw becomes 90 BP just like how Leaf Blade changed from 70 BP to 90 BP in G4. We already know that Tackle's BP was changed afterall.
Edit:
Have we ever seen a picture or video that has Rowlet's stats? I know we've seen Popplio and Litten. Obviously base form starter stats don't perfectly predict final form stats, but it could at least suggest trends.
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Leviticus20:13
Talonflame Falconer
I thought Kecleon has protean before?
glacialcat
Well-Known Member
Kecleon had only Color Change in Generation 3-5. Protean was introduced in Generation 6 and was given to both Greninja and Kecleon as a Hidden Ability.
GillianPuzzle
Physical Trainer
Oh right, Decidueye's signature move. Just want to let you to know, but most of starters from previous generations have signature moves that are not...exactly good. Especially Gen VI starters.
Oh well, we can find out if new physical ghost is actually that good once the game come out. *SPOILER!* due to datemine, there are 69 new moves so still hope for Decidueye's moveset.
And no, I didn't think Rowlet's stats have revealed yet. Still no pictures or videos. Popplio stats seem to predict Primarina well but Incineroar will probably be different from what Litten stats shown.
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