Starter Discussion & Thread

[john90]

I kinda hope if Primarina has a good Sp. Att(it feels like a more special attack oriented than physical attack oriented) it gets dark pulse(or a new decent special Dark type attack) for coverage to give it neutral coverage when combined with it's STABs so it can have 4th slot for a support move. Though it doesn't seem like it would be suited for a sweeper position since it doesn't look like it would have the speed to pull that off though it might have the bulk.

Primarina will defenitly be a wall, like Milotic, but with more defense and less HP.
Imo, its stat will be:

80-60-100-100-120-70
or
80-65-100-105-110-70

Imagine an even bulkier Azumarill, already huge powered so there's a free slot for a new ability, special and faster

 

[glacialcat]

Primarina will defenitly be a wall, like Milotic, but with more defense and less HP.
Imo, its stat will be:

80-60-100-100-120-70
or
80-65-100-105-110-70

Imagine an even bulkier Azumarill, already huge powered so there's a free slot for a new ability, special and faster

Azumarill with Huge Power has the equivalent of a fully invested 146 Attack stat. Soooooo... that's... a bit more than 105 Sp.Att.

 

[john90]

Azumarill with Huge Power has the equivalent of a fully invested 146 Attack stat. Soooooo... that's... a bit more than 105 Sp.Att.

But Primarina has acces to an ability that with still don't know, this may change things. Primarina is a wall, when I said already huge powered I meant that probably it has already more then 100 base sp. att, which is pretty god for a wall, but if it gains something like serene grace or pixilate then it will be a good attacker too.

 

[Gohankuten]

Primarina will defenitly be a wall, like Milotic, but with more defense and less HP.
Imo, its stat will be:

80-60-100-100-120-70
or
80-65-100-105-110-70

Imagine an even bulkier Azumarill, already huge powered so there's a free slot for a new ability, special and faster

If Primarina has base 105 Sp. Att then the highest it's Sp. Att could get would only be 339 which is almost exactly 100 lower than max Att Azumarill after Huge power which comes in at 436 so can't really compare them on that front but otherwise yeah it probably would be a bulkier and faster special version of Azumarill.

 

[JVLightningLover]

Azumarill with Huge Power has the equivalent of a fully invested 146 Attack stat. Soooooo... that's... a bit more than 105 Sp.Att.

Yeah...but still, a Water/Fairy Mon, built for bulk, with the Sp. Attack necessary to run a decently powered Scald is fantastin. And if Primarina gets Moonlight (which seems likely), then it will be beastly as all get out. Still, this is how I see the stats shaking out:

HP: 90
ATK: 70
DEF: 90
SPA: 100
SPD: 110
SPE: 70

So none to different, really. Primarina is shaping up really nicely, and is giving me no reason to regret my choice of picking Popplio

 

[glacialcat]

But Primarina has acces to an ability that with still don't know, this may change things. Primarina is a wall, when I said already huge powered I meant that probably it has already more then 100 base sp. att, which is pretty god for a wall, but if it gains something like serene grace or pixilate then it will be a good attacker too.

They aren't going to be comparable though. Azumarill is a fairly bulky wall breaker that can also be a priority sweeper with Aqua Jet and Belly Drum.

Your Primarina stats and ability suggest a decently bulky tank that can do solid damage and play the long game with status ailments.

I'm jut not sure why you'd even compare them, except they share the same type. But that's like comparing Talonflame and Megazard-Y, or Gliscor and Landorus. Completely uncomparable Pokemon.

 

[john90]

They aren't going to be comparable though. Azumarill is a fairly bulky wall breaker that can also be a priority sweeper with Aqua Jet and Belly Drum.

Your Primarina stats and ability suggest a decently bulky tank that can do solid damage and play the long game with status ailments.

I'm jut not sure why you'd even compare them, except they share the same type. But that's like comparing Talonflame and Megazard-Y, or Gliscor and Landorus. Completely uncomparable Pokemon.

Can you read between the lines? I was not comparing them at all: different bulk, different orientation on physical and special, different speed. I was not saying already huge powered litteraly simply stating that Primarina base sp. attack wil be double then Azumarill base attack. This means that I was not saying they will be the same pokemon. Like I said before, Primarina will be like Milotic with less Hp and more defense.

 

[glacialcat]

Imagine an even bulkier Azumarill, already huge powered so there's a free slot for a new ability, special and faster

How is this not comparing them? Like you're trying to set it up as if it was Azumarill, but faster with an ability and "already huge powered" suggests at least as strong. I was just pointing out that they 105 Sp.Att is not remotely as strong as 50 Huge Power Attack.

In any event Huge Power on 50 Attack is not the same thing as 100 Attack. It is significantly more.

For the record, I agree with your overall stat spread for Primarina. It seems like it would do some work and be an effective offensive wall.

 

[john90]

How is this not comparing them? Like you're trying to set it up as if it was Azumarill, but faster with an ability and "already huge powered" suggests at least as strong. I was just pointing out that they 105 Sp.Att is not remotely as strong as 50 Huge Power Attack.

In any event Huge Power on 50 Attack is not the same thing as 100 Attack. It is significantly more.

For the record, I agree with your overall stat spread for Primarina. It seems like it would do some work and be an effective offensive wall.

Sorry but don't you understand that changing Hp, Defense, Sp. Defense, Speed and inverting the attacks will change the pokemon? When I took Azumarill as reference was just cause they have the same type. And nothing of what I said is false imo. The thing you are really concerned for (cause I know) is the "already huge powered" part, which you took litterally when I was pointing out that Primarina has double sp. attack then Azumarill base attack stat. I was talking about the stats of a wall so Primarina with 105 base sp. attack is huge powered as a wall can be. Can you understand? Cause this is the third time I say it.

 

[glacialcat]

Sorry but don't you understand that changing Hp, Defense, Sp. Defense, Speed and inverting the attacks will change the pokemon? When I took Azumarill as reference was just cause they have the same type. And nothing of what I said is false imo. The thing you are really concerned for (cause I know) is the "already huge powered" part, which you took litterally when I was pointing out that Primarina has double sp. attack then Azumarill base attack stat. I was talking about the stats of a wall so Primarina with 105 base sp. attack is huge powered as a wall can be. Can you understand? Cause this is the third time I say it.

I understand everything you are saying. Please stop insinuating that I do not. I disagree that this is a good way to phrase your points because I believe it is setting up a comparison to a Pokemon that it is not comparable to. And I believe that phrasing the comment about Huge Power that way is not an accurate way to compare them, because it suggests that 105 Special Attack is well.. comparable to 146 Attack (after huge power calculation). Which it is not.

A much more accurate comparison, as you yourself has made, would have been "Milotic, but /Fairy."

 

[john90]

I understand everything you are saying. Please stop insinuating that I do not. I disagree that this is a good way to phrase your points because I believe it is setting up a comparison to a Pokemon that it is not comparable to. And I believe that phrasing the comment about Huge Power that way is not an accurate way to talk about the effects of that ability.

Can you understand?

I was not talking litteraly! Primarina is not huge powered in the ability sense compared to Azumarill, but in an ironic way compared to walls. All wall starters, Meganium, Blastoise, Serperior, have 70-80 base attack or like Venusaur or Chesnaught they have good attack but one of their defenses is mediocre. Imo Primarina will have both defenses and sp. attack over 100. It is a figurate huge powered wall starter. Is it ok, now?

 

[glacialcat]

I was not talking litteraly! Primarina is not huge powered in the ability sense compared to Azumarill, but in an ironic way compared to walls. All wall starters, Meganium, Blastoise, Serperior, have 70-80 base attack or like Venusaur or Chesnaught they have good attack but one of their defenses is mediocre. Imo Primarina will have both defenses and sp. attack over 100. It is a figurate huge powered wall starter. Is it ok, now?

Right, this is fair. And I agree, I also think Primarina's Sp.Att, Sp.Def, and Def will all be close or over 100. Potentially HP too. I kind of think HP will be over 100, but maybe Def will be a little under 100. 80 or so. But it'd balance out either way.

So uhhh.. putting that behind us. Let's talk hidden abilities again. I know there are popular choices (Sniper, Keen Eye, Serene Grace, Pixilate, Tough Claws, Moxie, Defiant), but here's a few more potential ones we could discuss that aren't talked about much.

Decidueye: Stakeout (suggests a sniper lying in wait for the right moment), Aerilate (makes up for losing Flying STAB), Overcoat, Tinted Lenses (Noctowl gets it, has eyeglass-like markings), Cursed Body

Incineroar: Anger Point, Intimidate, Contrary (It is a Heel... though probably not, just because another starter gets it), Flame Body

Primarina: Dazzling (It certainly is dazzling), Soundproof, Swift Swim, Triage, Wonder Skin (kind of a vague ability... but hey, bet it has clean pores!).

I don't think these are particularly likely, but fun to think about a few of the less-likely abilities they could get.

Any one else want to make a case for an obscure or otherwise untalked about ability for these guys?

 

[WyvernTamer]

Right, this is fair. And I agree, I also think Primarina's Sp.Att, Sp.Def, and Def will all be close or over 100. Potentially HP too. I kind of think HP will be over 100, but maybe Def will be a little under 100. 80 or so. But it'd balance out either way.

So uhhh.. putting that behind us. Let's talk hidden abilities again. I know there are popular choices (Sniper, Keen Eye, Serene Grace, Pixilate, Tough Claws, Moxie, Defiant), but here's a few more potential ones we could discuss that aren't talked about much.

Decidueye: Stakeout (suggests a sniper lying in wait for the right moment), Aerilate (makes up for losing Flying STAB), Overcoat, Tinted Lenses (Noctowl gets it, has eyeglass-like markings), Cursed Body

Incineroar: Anger Point, Intimidate, Contrary (It is a Heel... though probably not, just because another starter gets it), Flame Body

Primarina: Dazzling (It certainly is dazzling), Soundproof, Swift Swim, Triage, Wonder Skin (kind of a vague ability... but hey, bet it has clean pores!).

I don't think these are particularly likely, but fun to think about a few of the less-likely abilities they could get.

Any one else want to make a case for an obscure or otherwise untalked about ability for these guys?

I was thinking for awhile what are some of the other possible abilities the starters could have.
Here's what I got.

Decidueye: Pressure (seeing how he pursues his target to no end), Big pecks, (cause why not and gamefreak is notorious for giving bird Pokemon this), Sniper

Incineroar: Quick feet, Tough claws, Defiant, Huge power (Highly unlikely but makes sense, especially in Japanese how it's referred to "Muscle man")

Primarina: Hydration, (looks like it needs to be very wet) Multi scale, (ties in with the Mermaid design), Marvel scale works to I guess, Healer

 

[HydroBR]

They could go the "not entirely bad, but kinda frustrating" way, and give Insomnia to Decidueye and Cute Charm to Primarina.

 

[Paladin of Arceus]

Right, this is fair. And I agree, I also think Primarina's Sp.Att, Sp.Def, and Def will all be close or over 100. Potentially HP too. I kind of think HP will be over 100, but maybe Def will be a little under 100. 80 or so. But it'd balance out either way.

So uhhh.. putting that behind us. Let's talk hidden abilities again. I know there are popular choices (Sniper, Keen Eye, Serene Grace, Pixilate, Tough Claws, Moxie, Defiant), but here's a few more potential ones we could discuss that aren't talked about much.

Decidueye: Stakeout (suggests a sniper lying in wait for the right moment), Aerilate (makes up for losing Flying STAB), Overcoat, Tinted Lenses (Noctowl gets it, has eyeglass-like markings), Cursed Body

Incineroar: Anger Point, Intimidate, Contrary (It is a Heel... though probably not, just because another starter gets it), Flame Body

Primarina: Dazzling (It certainly is dazzling), Soundproof, Swift Swim, Triage, Wonder Skin (kind of a vague ability... but hey, bet it has clean pores!).

I don't think these are particularly likely, but fun to think about a few of the less-likely abilities they could get.

Any one else want to make a case for an obscure or otherwise untalked about ability for these guys?

Aerilate wouldn't *technically* make up for Decidueye's lack of Flying STAB, because Aerilate boosts Flying moves by 30%, while STAB is a 50% bonus. But I gather that you know that, and I'm just blowing hot air at you. I do like the idea of giving him Stakeout, however, because it'd make him deal a bit more damage if he gets caught in a bad switch-in, or deal an even heavier blow than normal if he predicts it well.

As for Incineroar, I'm pretty on board with just giving him Tough Claws. I kind of expect them to give him a new HA we haven't seen yet, tho, due to his flavor text saying about his fighting spirit burning brighter the more pumped the crowd is.

I've always been on board with giving Primarina Dazzling. Combine that with all of her other defensive options, and she'd be a pretty OP'd wall.

 

[Inconspicuosaurus]

I actually just posted about all my HA predictions for new Pokemon and Alola forms in the Abilities thread just now. WRT starters, I am predicting Sniper for Decidueye, Sheer Force for Incineroar, and Dancer for Primarina.

I do not think Dazzling is likely for Primarina, as it appears to be based on a particular kind of camouflage that some fish, other animals, and battleships use, called dazzle camouflage (motion dazzle in nature), which makes it difficult to estimate a target's speed and relative direction. Hence opponents cannot attack without focusing on the Pokemon first, and as such, priority moves are impossible to hit with. Primarina doesn't fit the design necessary to make sense for this ability, so I think it will be restricted to Bruxish, and perhaps other vibrantly-patterned Pokemon like Zebstrika (zebras being the most famous users of motion dazzle).

 

[john90]

In the last trailer Rowlet has 47 HP at level 16 and in a different screenshot it has 50 at level 15 (consider that Tepig max HP at level 15 are 49). Now assuming it has something like 67 base HP (if 50 is the max it can reach at level 16) in pokemon history when a starter has a stat over 60 in its base form, that stat is never below 100 in its last stage. Now, assuming that Decidueye HP will be somthing like 105-115, looking at the speed chart of all pokemon, excluding Legends, Mega and Slaking (which all have a lot of base stats), there is not a single pokemon with base HP over 100 and a base speed over 95 (only Darmaritan has 105 base Hp and 95 base speed actually, when nobody else have more then 100 HP and more then 90 speed). So. in my opinion the best speed Decidueye can reach is 90.
This said, here are my new stat prediction for Decidueye:

110-120-60-80-70-90 at best
110-100-65-90-85-80 at worst

 

[willprogresivo]

Dancer as Primarina's HA makes sense, from a cute in-lore perspective. I don't play competetively, so I'm not sure what the uses are for that. I guess ally uses Quiver Dance in doubles?

 

[knightwolf09]

In the last trailer Rowlet has 47 HP at level 16 and in a different screenshot it has 50 at level 15 (consider that Tepig max HP at level 15 are 49). Now assuming it has something like 67 base HP (if 50 is the max it can reach at level 16) in pokemon history when a starter has a stat over 60 in its base form, that stat is never below 100 in its last stage. Now, assuming that Decidueye HP will be somthing like 105-115, looking at the speed chart of all pokemon, excluding Legends, Mega and Slaking (which all have a lot of base stats), there is not a single pokemon with base HP over 100 and a base speed over 95 (only Darmaritan has 105 base Hp and 95 base speed actually, when nobody else have more then 100 HP and more then 90 speed). So. in my opinion the best speed Decidueye can reach is 90.
This said, here are my new stat prediction for Decidueye:

110-120-60-80-70-90 at best
110-100-65-90-85-80 at worst

I still think his best Speed will be 100 while his Attack will be 110

 

[JVLightningLover]

Dancer as Primarina's HA makes sense, from a cute in-lore perspective. I don't play competetively, so I'm not sure what the uses are for that. I guess ally uses Quiver Dance in doubles?

It also means you'd copy an opponent's Quiver Dances in singles, which will help you tank their attacks, AND you'd get extra Speed if something tries to Dragon Dance on you, making her an even better Dragon slayer.