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Starter Discussion & Thread

What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

  • Rowlet

    Votes: 467 43.2%
  • Litten

    Votes: 343 31.8%
  • Popplio

    Votes: 270 25.0%

  • Total voters
    1,080
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Not open for further replies.

john90

Well-Known Member
Guys, speed is really important for a wall? Really? Ferrothorn has nothing speed, Blissey has nothing speed. The problem is not speed. If Decidueye has 110/100/100 bulk I can see it having a good usage even with a non great defensive type. Remember that Clefable's bulk is 95/73/90 so....
 

Sakuraba

Well-Known Member
So if decidueye doesn't get the best defenses, how can it even be considered a wall. It's getting screwed over in its stats distribution.

I can't say I totally dislike that. Hopefully it'll make GameFreak give the Starters equal footing on merchandising and the likes instead of ignoring two of them in favor of the cool one. (****ing frog....)
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
Guys, speed is really important for a wall? Really? Ferrothorn has nothing speed, Blissey has nothing speed. The problem is not speed. If Decidueye has 110/100/100 bulk I can see it having a good usage even with a non great defensive type. Remember that Clefable's bulk is 95/73/90 so....
You kind of forgot to mention that those two also have mega defenses and typings that are absolutely walls.

I can't say I totally dislike that. Hopefully it'll make GameFreak give the Starters equal footing on merchandising and the likes instead of ignoring two of them in favor of the cool one. (****ing frog....)

Did you ever think Greninja being vastly more popular also had to do with its design and being a ninja?
 

WhiteBlair

ベストチャンピオン。
Please guys stop be obsessed with speed. They wanted Rowlet as a wall. What's the point of a wall with 90 base speed (and a total of 530 base stats)? If Decidueye gains that speed instead of defenses it could be a problem cause it won't be that great wall but neither a good attacker with 80 base att/sp.att. It's better for him 65-70 base speed and 100 defenses rather then 95 base speed and 85 defenses. You want an inverse Emboar? A wall with great speed?

What kind of wall are we talking about here? Grass/Ghost is a vulnerable typing to most of the offensive threats; Fire, Flying, Ice, Dark and Ghost. With slow speed, it will not be possible for you to surive those threats more than 1-2 hits, and that is in case if you have great HP and defenses.
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
You kind of forgot to mention that those two also have mega defenses and typings that are absolutely walls.



Did you ever think Greninja being vastly more popular also had to do with its design and being a ninja?

tbh 50% of Greninja's popularity is probably directly related not to its design, nor its capabilities in competitive battling, but from being decided to represent G6 in Smash Bros.

I don't have any numbers to back that up. But I'd be willing to bet on it.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
tbh 50% of Greninja's popularity is probably directly related not to its design, nor its capabilities in competitive battling, but from being decided to represent G6 in Smash Bros.

I don't have any numbers to back that up. But I'd be willing to bet on it.

You're probably mostly right, smash is a huge part of it. Before smash though it was definitely still right near the top of popularity for kalos pokemon, but smash pretty much skyrocketed it. If theoretically there were more characters for smash switch and decidueye got in, it would become extremely popular.

Also to note though, sakurai put in greninja because he thought its deseign was the coolest and because it was a ninja.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
One thing I don't think people noticed is that Dartrix seems like it start slacking in Sp.Def upon evolving a little bit.
 

john90

Well-Known Member
tbh 50% of Greninja's popularity is probably directly related not to its design, nor its capabilities in competitive battling, but from being decided to represent G6 in Smash Bros.

I don't have any numbers to back that up. But I'd be willing to bet on it.

I think the design did a lot. Why do people always forget its tongue? That tongue could have destroyed it but hey, its design is too weird, you have to like it XD
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
I think the design did a lot. Why do people always forget its tongue? That tongue could have destroyed it but hey, its design is too weird, you have to like it XD

Its tounge looks like a ninja scarf so it lets it off the hook for that.
 

Sakuraba

Well-Known Member
tbh 50% of Greninja's popularity is probably directly related not to its design, nor its capabilities in competitive battling, but from being decided to represent G6 in Smash Bros.

I don't have any numbers to back that up. But I'd be willing to bet on it.

True. But he was already pretty damn popular.

And he being what, one of 2 starters on Ubers did not help even the odds.

Don't mind me. I just really dislike that Chesnaught and Delphox are shadowed by the generic ninja frog. And while Decidueye is my personal favorite of the Alola trio, I don't want the same thing to happen here.
 

john90

Well-Known Member
You kind of forgot to mention that those two also have mega defenses and typings that are absolutely walls.

I'm kinda tired of all this. In the last two weeks everyone was accusing me for saying that Rowlet would have had great HP and no great speed because I was clearly against Rowlet. Now everyone here wants to kill Rowlet for not having 120 base speed. Listen, I don't mind. I'm choosing Popplio anyway, if you want to think Rowlet has no chances without even knowing its moves and ability, for what I care, you can pick Rowlet and throw it out of the windows.
 

yuoke

Treasure huntin'
I'm kinda tired of all this. In the last two weeks everyone was accusing me for saying that Rowlet would have had great HP and no great speed because I was clearly against Rowlet. Now everyone here wants to kill Rowlet for not having 120 base speed. Listen, I don't mind. I'm choosing Popplio anyway, if you want to think Rowlet has no chances without even knowing its moves and ability, for what I care, you can pick Rowlet and throw it out of the windows.

You don't need to be defensive. People are just disappointed that it won't be a viable starter.
 

john90

Well-Known Member
You don't need to be defensive. People are just disappointed that it won't be a viable starter.

Based on what? We don't much right now...But again everyone is free to do whatever
 

glacialcat

Well-Known Member
Based on what? We don't much right now...But again everyone is free to do whatever

I mean this has pretty much been my point all along. We lack enough information, especially HA and new threats, to assign viability rankings at this point.

Everyone remember when XY came out Talonflame was predicted to maybe get use in RU and UU. Conversely, everyone predicted Barbacle would tear through OU with Shell Smash Tough Claws.

Neither of these came true.
 

john90

Well-Known Member
I mean this has pretty much been my point all along. We lack enough information, especially HA and new threats, to assign viability rankings at this point.

Everyone remember when XY came out Talonflame was predicted to maybe get use in RU and UU. Conversely, everyone predicted Barbacle would tear through OU with Shell Smash Tough Claws.

Neither of these came true.

It was this kind of popularity I was against, you know. The "Oh! Too cool. I want it to become this and if it doesn't it will s**k".
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Guys, speed is really important for a wall? Really? Ferrothorn has nothing speed, Blissey has nothing speed. The problem is not speed. If Decidueye has 110/100/100 bulk I can see it having a good usage even with a non great defensive type. Remember that Clefable's bulk is 95/73/90 so....

Shameless self quote.

Speed is one of the most important stats for a successful Wall, look at freaking Lugia, Arceus, zard X, Gliscor, mega Altaria and freaking Talonflame.

Getting speed over 95 lets you screw 80% of this game wallbreakers.

And yes Spdef and even physical defense Talonflame exist and are used more than all their physical variants, stall breaker bulky Gliscor, it's most successful set BTW, speed creeps to use that 95 base speed and Jolly to effectively become bulkier than it would be with a careful or impish nature.

Yes it does, Ferrothorn has the niche if it's typing and utility, do you know that nowadays people actually speed creep their ferrothorn to beat mega Sableye with two power whips? No, you never thought about that did you?

Clefable is a perfect storm of movepool and two anti metagame abilities couple with thunder wave, it wouldn't defeat its targets without those 3 factors, it's defense is mediocre to a point it is 2hkoed cleanly by most wallbreakers,sadly most folks don't run wallbreakers anymore.

Blissey is **** outside of Ubers, Chansey isn't due to how damage is calculated, it has to give up passive recovery and is a complete momentum killer and its low speed works against it without thunder wave.

A good speed Stat determines what wallbreakers can't defeat you and how good you are at switching in. This is competitive dude, gen 6 is not about typing or **** terminology like type cores or tanks, it's all about role compression.
 

john90

Well-Known Member
Shameless self quote.



Yes it does, Ferrothorn has the niche if it's typing and utility, do you know that nowadays people actually speed creep their ferrothorn to beat mega Sableye with two power whips? No, you never thought about that did you?

Clefable is a perfect storm of movepool and two anti metagame abilities couple with thunder wave, it wouldn't defeat its targets without those 3 factors, it's defense is mediocre to a point it is 2hkoed cleanly by most wallbreakers,sadly most folks don't run wallbreakers anymore.

Blissey is **** outside of Ubers, Chansey isn't due to how damage is calculated, it has to give up passive recovery and is a complete momentum killer and its low speed works against it without thunder wave.

A good speed Stat determines what wallbreakers can't defeat you and how good you are at switching in. This is competitive dude, gen 6 is not about typing or **** terminology like type cores or tanks, it's all about role compression.

Okay, okay. Rowlet will be a terrible starter, no one will use it and Gf will replace it with another grass starter in sun and moon 2. Happy?
 

Disaster_Lord

Sad Bayleef is Sad.
Okay, okay. Rowlet will be a terrible starter, no one will use it and Gf will replace it with another grass starter in sun and moon 2. Happy?

Nope, it's **** and they never remove Pokémon. And please use blue text for sarcasm.

Just don't try to defend slow tanks without knowing what made a few of them viable.
 

Nacreous

Fire trainer
I can see Decidueye having an amazing HA.It's obviously made to be the most marketable of the 3,kinda like Greninja.
 

TRG

Well-Known Member
We don't truly know what any of these Pokemon are capable of until we at least have knowledge of their hidden abilities. Abilities alone can make or break a Pokemon. Contrary single-handedly took Serperior from hot garbage to an OU-worthy threat while Greninja's Protean ability made an otherwise slightly above average Pokemon into one of the most broken starters in history.
 
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