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Starter Speculation/Discussion Thread

Which starter would you use?

  • Chespin

    Votes: 845 26.8%
  • Fennekin

    Votes: 1,329 42.2%
  • Froakie

    Votes: 849 27.0%
  • NONE, Dunsparce looks better

    Votes: 127 4.0%

  • Total voters
    3,150
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SQUIRTLETamer08

lower shiny ratio!
Come on guys.. no fighting. Especially that none of us know the truth about the game, and especially that we all have our own opinions.

Oh, and about the Samurott thing. If anybody even looks at Blastoise, he doesn't look anything like his pre-evolved forms. He looks more like a Bear-Turtle. He has bear like ears, very different features than the previous forms and a very different tale. Then look at Blaziken, while I hate that thing with a passion and I think it looks like a man in a suit (much like Deoxys :G), it's still a good example of how evolution can change a pokemon drastically.

Remoraid is the bullets, Octillery is the gun.
Ampharos is a sheered sheep from a fully woolly sheepy.
Cottonee looks like an old man, and Whimsicott looks like a little wood imp.
And, there are more.

All I know is that I am not disappointed with these Starters and I am excited to see what they'll look like as they evolve.

Blastoise's origin being a mix between turtle and bear? Nah, it's labeled as a shellfish pokemon in the dex, but its inspiration clearly is derived from a large sea turtle/tortoise along with its cannons being taking from the idea of some shellfish being able to use jet propulsion to move by shooting water out of certain internal tubes. However a simpler answer for the cannons would be perhaps a tank and its cannon.
 

Flame Haji

Fairy Gym Leader
I like Fennec Fox. Tbh I always thought Chespin more as a chipmunk, because I always thought of chestnuts when I saw his name... though if this knowledge is true then whatevs.

Well it looks like a mix of a Hedgehog and a Marron nut with a hint of a chipmunk in there, though it will lose the chipmunk thing though its 2nd and 3rd Stage is my guess.
 

mew92

Well-Known Member
I guess we wont have the pokemon's exact stats as soon as the games are released.... cuz the 3ds Rom extracting is not possible to get data AFAIK . Guess we have to rely on the official pokemon guides.....plz correct me if Im wrong... cuz I usually choose statter with high atk and speed
 

Professor Squirtle

Professor of Rain
I would assume through educated analysis that the starter known as "Fennekin" is a reflection of what we term the Fennec Fox of the desert. Interestingly, certain breeders took these foxes and bred the most obedient and amiable animals until eventually somewhat domesticating them into what would appear to be an equivalent of what we know as dogs. Although I doubt this to be the eventual outcome of this creature's evolutionary line, attention to that domesticated evolution set would be interesting. I shall study this more.
 

Ironfish

pokemon scientist
I would assume through educated analysis that the starter known as "Fennekin" is a reflection of what we term the Fennec Fox of the desert. Interestingly, certain breeders took these foxes and bred the most obedient and amiable animals until eventually somewhat domesticating them into what would appear to be an equivalent of what we know as dogs. Although I doubt this to be the eventual outcome of this creature's evolutionary line, attention to that domesticated evolution set would be interesting. I shall study this more.

well one thing is for sure we all know what pokemon people will use as an icon when using ''pokemon internet''
 

Luxvan

Mozilla Fennekin
I would assume through educated analysis that the starter known as "Fennekin" is a reflection of what we term the Fennec Fox of the desert. Interestingly, certain breeders took these foxes and bred the most obedient and amiable animals until eventually somewhat domesticating them into what would appear to be an equivalent of what we know as dogs. Although I doubt this to be the eventual outcome of this creature's evolutionary line, attention to that domesticated evolution set would be interesting. I shall study this more.
Fire/Ground wolf perhaps?
Do want.
Like I said somewhere else if not here, if it evolves into a wolf, automatic favorite Pokemon.
 
I would assume through educated analysis that the starter known as "Fennekin" is a reflection of what we term the Fennec Fox of the desert. Interestingly, certain breeders took these foxes and bred the most obedient and amiable animals until eventually somewhat domesticating them into what would appear to be an equivalent of what we know as dogs. Although I doubt this to be the eventual outcome of this creature's evolutionary line, attention to that domesticated evolution set would be interesting. I shall study this more.

I appreciate your ability to remain in character while using such a ridiculous a signature.

Personally, I have a feeling that Fennekin will tie into the French connections with Egypt, which are numerous. I'm not sure how exactly that would be visualized or illustrated, but it's just a hunch I have.
 

Jonny2013

Bug Catcher
As speculations go forward, I just wanted to bring up a few points that may help everyone to understand why certain type pairings won't be likely (I know this is a new account, and consequently, I appear to be a new member, but I actually had an account once, long long ago, that I passed on to a younger sibling and have remained a frequent follower on the forums since then. But as I watched these conversations unfold, I noticed a lot of frustration and arguments that, frankly, made no sense to me. In anticipation of Generation VI and PokeMon X & Y, and not wanting to be a bad big brother and take my account back from my little sister, I decided to make a new account to address some of those issues that keep popping up).

So, here goes something:

Regarding Froakie

There's been a lot of controversy about this guy--which is understandable, as the video may have left a lot unclear (as they did with each starter; to be honest, there's no objective way of determining any secondary types for any of the starters based on the teaser, because all PokeMon learn moves that aren't of their primary type/type-pairing), but there are a few things we can know without a doubt about Froakie's eventual type-pairing.

Froakie will most likely not be Water/Ice or Water/Flying.

Why?

Because no starter is given any type advantage over (not including move pool) that advantages it over the starter to which it is meant to be weak, or more precisely, the fully-evolved form of any starter will not have a type or type-pairing that advantages it over the fully-evolved starter of the type against which it was initially weak/ineffective (e.g., Charmander would never evolve into a PokeMon with a type/type-pairing that advantages it over Squirtle).

Let me break it down by generation to demonstrate why I think that:

Generation I
Venusaur (Grass/Poison):
  • x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
  • x2 Weakness to Flying (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)

Charizard (Fire/Flying):
  • x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
  • x0.75 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Poison (No resistance/weakness)

Blastoise (Water):
  • x2 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Fire (Not very effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Flying (No resistance/weakness)

So far, my hypothesis holds up. The Grass starter remains disadvantaged to the Fire and advantaged against Water, and so on.

Generation II
Meganium (Grass):
  • x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)

Typhlosion (Fire):
  • x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)

Feraligatr (Water):
  • x2 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Fire (Not very effective)

Again, with Generation II, my hypothesis holds up.

Generation III
Sceptile (Grass):
  • x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Ground (Not very effective)

Blaziken (Fire/Fighting):
  • x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
  • x2 Weakness to Ground (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)

Swampert (Water/Ground):
  • x4 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Weakness to Fire (Not very effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)

My hypothesis still holds with Generation III, though Swampert's disadvantage against Sceptile is increased through evolution. This does not, however, affect the hypothesis I've set forth, as Swampert was always intended to be disadvantaged to Sceptile, meaning the balance remains Grass > Water > Fire > Grass.

(But here's where things get weird)

Generation IV
Torterra (Grass/Ground):
  • x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
  • x1 Resistance to Water (No resistance/weakness)
  • x1 Resistance to Steel (No resistance/weakness)

Infernape (Fire/Fighting):
  • x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Steel (Not very effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)
  • x2 Weakness to Ground (Super Effective)

Empoleon (Water/Steel):
  • x1 Resistance to Grass (No resistance/weakness
  • x2 Weakness to Ground (Super Effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Fire (No resistance/weakness)
  • x2 Weakness to Fighting (Super Effective)

Generation IV really pushes this hypothesis to its limits because it seems that the balance is broken. In fact, it's not--it's simply changed (dramatically). Now, Torterra loses its resistance to Empoleon, Empoleon loses its resistance to Infernape, and Infernape gains a weakness to Torterra while not gaining a resistance to Empoleon. In other words, they are balanced in that they are all capable of making super effective/unresisted hits on each other with attacks of their type. I know this seems like a stretch, but taking only into account type-pairing, Generation IV remains balanced (though, perhaps overly so), because no starter gains a true type advantage against any of the others.

Generation V
Serperior (Grass):
  • x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)

Emboar (Fire/Fighting):
  • x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)

Samurott (Water):
  • x2 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
  • x0.5 Weakness to Fire (Not very effective)
  • x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)

Generation V regains the normal balance proposed in my hypothesis, with Grass > Water > Fire > Grass once again.


So, as I think I've demonstrated, it is very unlikely, at best, that Froakie's fully evolved form will include a pairing of Water/Ice or Water/Flying unless Chespin were to gain a type-pairing of Grass/Steel (unless Froakie were Water/Ice and Chespin were Grass/Fighting, or, Froakie were Water/Flying and Chespin were Grass/Rock).

So, there's my hypothesis. And based on that, plus some suspicions that I think can be reasonably drawn from the teaser trailer, here are my:

Final Type-Pairing Predictions
Chespin (Final evolved form)
Grass/Fighting or Pure Grass

Fennekin (Final evolved form)
Fire/Psychic or Pure Fire

Froakie (Final evolved form)
Water/Dark or Pure Water

The reasoning behind my predictions: rather than advantaging any of the starters in their fully evolved form, I have a feeling GameFreak will choose to more or less completely handicap each starter against the type it is initially weak against (Grass > Water/Fighting > Dark) > (Water> Fire/Dark >Psychic) > (Fire > Grass/Psychic > Fighting).


AND

Starter Stat Distributions--
Based on Generations II and IV, which both have the Grass starter with a total of 318 total base stats, Fire with 309 total base stats, and Water with 314 total base stats.

Chespin
HP: 63
Attack: 65
Defense: 55
Sp. Attack: 45
Sp. Defense: 50
Speed: 40

Fennekin
HP: 45
Attack: 44
Defense: 40
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 65
Speed: 60

Froakie
HP: 52
Attack: 55
Defense: 45
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 45
Speed: 65
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TL;DR: Froakie probably won't be Water/Ice or Water/Flying UNLESS Chespin ends up being Grass/Steel (for either), Grass/Fighting (for Water/Ice) or Grass/Rock (for Water/Flying).

Also, Fennekin will be Fire/Fighting.

Infernape is strong against Empoleon. Therefore you are wrong.
 
Infernape is strong against Empoleon. Therefore you are wrong.

No; Infernape, Empoleon, and Torterra are balanced because their types do not advantage one another. Empoleon holds a Water type advantage against Infernape's Fire type, a Steel type disadvantage to Infernape's Fighting type, but the Fire-type does not advantage Infernape over Empoleon (Fire has a x1, neutral damage multiplier against Empoleon). By taking Torterra into consideration, the three final types are balanced because they are neither fully advantaged or disadvantaged against each other.
 

Ungoliath

Not a GenWunner
I liked you until I read the last part lol.

Also I'm still rooting for Froakie to end up as a Water/Fighting. I also have a theory explaining why it will (probably) end up being that type:
I just loved your theory, actually. And makes quite sense.

I would say that the chances of having Water/Fighting is around 75%.
 

Professor Squirtle

Professor of Rain
Fire/Ground wolf perhaps?
Do want.
Like I said somewhere else if not here, if it evolves into a wolf, automatic favorite Pokemon.

Well, although it's difficult for me to speculate what secondary typing any of these starters will possess (if any at all), I do recall Fennekin utilizing a psychic-based ability on Kirlia. If I am wrong, please correct my poor ability to identify these phenomenon, but if I am correct then I believe that's in the way of expressing Psychic as a secondary type. However, Ground/Fire is generally a terrible type combination (perhaps slightly forgoing optimally negative results through the additions sand or sun), and Psychic is almost as unwanted in the most recent metagames as a collective.

Last generation with the aimless speculation that foretold us that the starters would have secondary typing of Dark, Psychic and Fighting my hopes were rather up. It was disappointing to see the third installment of a Fire/Fighting (although I defend the longevity of Gamefreaks' creativity, this is somewhat of an oversight in my view) among other things, so hopefully it is changed up a bit.
 

Ironfish

pokemon scientist
No; Infernape, Empoleon, and Torterra are balanced because their types do not advantage one another. Empoleon holds a Water type advantage against Infernape's Fire type, a Steel type disadvantage to Infernape's Fighting type, but the Fire-type does not advantage Infernape over Empoleon (Fire has a x1, neutral damage multiplier against Empoleon). By taking Torterra into consideration, the three final types are balanced because they are neither fully advantaged or disadvantaged against each other.
Good show sir
 

thatjeremykid

.Memento.Mori.
I can see their types going Grass/Dark, Fire/Psychic, and Water/Fighting just because the second move each one uses in the trailer. but, could be wrong, just my opinion
 

Tavo_Zx

The Iron Man
I just loved your theory, actually. And makes quite sense.

I would say that the chances of having Water/Fighting is around 75%.

Haha thanks. Although it isn't exactly my theory, since I heard from someone some time ago, around 2011 I think. Now with this new generation it might actually end up being true. But nobody knows, apart from Gamefreak.
 

Ironfish

pokemon scientist
I can see their types going Grass/Dark, Fire/Psychic, and Water/Fighting just because the second move each one uses in the trailer. but, could be wrong, just my opinion

Everbody's opinion is just as valid as every one else's and I do agree with your opinion good sir
 

Professor Squirtle

Professor of Rain
No; Infernape, Empoleon, and Torterra are balanced because their types do not advantage one another. Empoleon holds a Water type advantage against Infernape's Fire type, a Steel type disadvantage to Infernape's Fighting type, but the Fire-type does not advantage Infernape over Empoleon (Fire has a x1, neutral damage multiplier against Empoleon). By taking Torterra into consideration, the three final types are balanced because they are neither fully advantaged or disadvantaged against each other.
I must ask if you've ever played in the over-used metagame since the fourth generation and DEFEATED Infernape with Empoleon. If so, how often does that outcome actually occur?
 
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