I don't like being called things you jerk!
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Starter Speculation/Discussion Thread
- Thread starter bobandbill
- Start date
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I don't like being called things you jerk!
Did you know that Samurott was actually designed as a sea lion due to the lack of inspiration for Oshawott's final evolution? They decided it in a trip to an aquarium.
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And you calling him a jerk is what?
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Come on guys.. no fighting. Especially that none of us know the truth about the game, and especially that we all have our own opinions.
Oh, and about the Samurott thing. If anybody even looks at Blastoise, he doesn't look anything like his pre-evolved forms. He looks more like a Bear-Turtle. He has bear like ears, very different features than the previous forms and a very different tale. Then look at Blaziken, while I hate that thing with a passion and I think it looks like a man in a suit (much like Deoxys :G), it's still a good example of how evolution can change a pokemon drastically.
Remoraid is the bullets, Octillery is the gun.
Ampharos is a sheered sheep from a fully woolly sheepy.
Cottonee looks like an old man, and Whimsicott looks like a little wood imp.
And, there are more.
All I know is that I am not disappointed with these Starters and I am excited to see what they'll look like as they evolve.
Oh, and about the Samurott thing. If anybody even looks at Blastoise, he doesn't look anything like his pre-evolved forms. He looks more like a Bear-Turtle. He has bear like ears, very different features than the previous forms and a very different tale. Then look at Blaziken, while I hate that thing with a passion and I think it looks like a man in a suit (much like Deoxys :G), it's still a good example of how evolution can change a pokemon drastically.
Remoraid is the bullets, Octillery is the gun.
Ampharos is a sheered sheep from a fully woolly sheepy.
Cottonee looks like an old man, and Whimsicott looks like a little wood imp.
And, there are more.
All I know is that I am not disappointed with these Starters and I am excited to see what they'll look like as they evolve.
CommonSense
Member
As speculations go forward, I just wanted to bring up a few points that may help everyone to understand why certain type pairings won't be likely (I know this is a new account, and consequently, I appear to be a new member, but I actually had an account once, long long ago, that I passed on to a younger sibling and have remained a frequent follower on the forums since then. But as I watched these conversations unfold, I noticed a lot of frustration and arguments that, frankly, made no sense to me. In anticipation of Generation VI and PokeMon X & Y, and not wanting to be a bad big brother and take my account back from my little sister, I decided to make a new account to address some of those issues that keep popping up).
So, here goes something:
So, there's my hypothesis. And based on that, plus some suspicions that I think can be reasonably drawn from the teaser trailer, here are my:
Final Type-Pairing Predictions
AND
Starter Stat Distributions--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TL;DR: Froakie probably won't be Water/Ice or Water/Flying UNLESS Chespin ends up being Grass/Steel (for either), Grass/Fighting (for Water/Ice) or Grass/Rock (for Water/Flying).
Also, Fennekin will be Fire/Fighting.
So, here goes something:
Regarding Froakie
There's been a lot of controversy about this guy--which is understandable, as the video may have left a lot unclear (as they did with each starter; to be honest, there's no objective way of determining any secondary types for any of the starters based on the teaser, because all PokeMon learn moves that aren't of their primary type/type-pairing), but there are a few things we can know without a doubt about Froakie's eventual type-pairing.
Froakie will most likely not be Water/Ice or Water/Flying.
Why?
Because no starter is given any type advantage over (not including move pool) that advantages it over the starter to which it is meant to be weak, or more precisely, the fully-evolved form of any starter will not have a type or type-pairing that advantages it over the fully-evolved starter of the type against which it was initially weak/ineffective (e.g., Charmander would never evolve into a PokeMon with a type/type-pairing that advantages it over Squirtle).
Let me break it down by generation to demonstrate why I think that:
Generation I
Venusaur (Grass/Poison):
Charizard (Fire/Flying):
Blastoise (Water):
So far, my hypothesis holds up. The Grass starter remains disadvantaged to the Fire and advantaged against Water, and so on.
Generation II
Meganium (Grass):
Typhlosion (Fire):
Feraligatr (Water):
Again, with Generation II, my hypothesis holds up.
Generation III
Sceptile (Grass):
Blaziken (Fire/Fighting):
Swampert (Water/Ground):
My hypothesis still holds with Generation III, though Swampert's disadvantage against Sceptile is increased through evolution. This does not, however, affect the hypothesis I've set forth, as Swampert was always intended to be disadvantaged to Sceptile, meaning the balance remains Grass > Water > Fire > Grass.
(But here's where things get weird)
Generation IV
Torterra (Grass/Ground):
Infernape (Fire/Fighting):
Empoleon (Water/Steel):
Generation IV really pushes this hypothesis to its limits because it seems that the balance is broken. In fact, it's not--it's simply changed (dramatically). Now, Torterra loses its resistance to Empoleon, Empoleon loses its resistance to Infernape, and Infernape gains a weakness to Torterra while not gaining a resistance to Empoleon. In other words, they are balanced in that they are all capable of making super effective/unresisted hits on each other with attacks of their type. I know this seems like a stretch, but taking only into account type-pairing, Generation IV remains balanced (though, perhaps overly so), because no starter gains a true type advantage against any of the others.
Generation V
Serperior (Grass):
Emboar (Fire/Fighting):
Samurott (Water):
Generation V regains the normal balance proposed in my hypothesis, with Grass > Water > Fire > Grass once again.
So, as I think I've demonstrated, it is very unlikely, at best, that Froakie's fully evolved form will include a pairing of Water/Ice or Water/Flying unless Chespin were to gain a type-pairing of Grass/Steel (unless Froakie were Water/Ice and Chespin were Grass/Fighting, or, Froakie were Water/Flying and Chespin were Grass/Rock).
There's been a lot of controversy about this guy--which is understandable, as the video may have left a lot unclear (as they did with each starter; to be honest, there's no objective way of determining any secondary types for any of the starters based on the teaser, because all PokeMon learn moves that aren't of their primary type/type-pairing), but there are a few things we can know without a doubt about Froakie's eventual type-pairing.
Froakie will most likely not be Water/Ice or Water/Flying.
Why?
Because no starter is given any type advantage over (not including move pool) that advantages it over the starter to which it is meant to be weak, or more precisely, the fully-evolved form of any starter will not have a type or type-pairing that advantages it over the fully-evolved starter of the type against which it was initially weak/ineffective (e.g., Charmander would never evolve into a PokeMon with a type/type-pairing that advantages it over Squirtle).
Let me break it down by generation to demonstrate why I think that:
Generation I
Venusaur (Grass/Poison):
- x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
- x2 Weakness to Flying (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)
Charizard (Fire/Flying):
- x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
- x0.75 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)
- x1 Resistance to Poison (No resistance/weakness)
Blastoise (Water):
- x2 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Fire (Not very effective)
- x1 Resistance to Flying (No resistance/weakness)
So far, my hypothesis holds up. The Grass starter remains disadvantaged to the Fire and advantaged against Water, and so on.
Generation II
Meganium (Grass):
- x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)
Typhlosion (Fire):
- x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)
Feraligatr (Water):
- x2 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Fire (Not very effective)
Again, with Generation II, my hypothesis holds up.
Generation III
Sceptile (Grass):
- x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
- x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
- x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Ground (Not very effective)
Blaziken (Fire/Fighting):
- x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
- x2 Weakness to Ground (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)
Swampert (Water/Ground):
- x4 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Weakness to Fire (Not very effective)
- x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
My hypothesis still holds with Generation III, though Swampert's disadvantage against Sceptile is increased through evolution. This does not, however, affect the hypothesis I've set forth, as Swampert was always intended to be disadvantaged to Sceptile, meaning the balance remains Grass > Water > Fire > Grass.
(But here's where things get weird)
Generation IV
Torterra (Grass/Ground):
- x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
- x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
- x1 Resistance to Water (No resistance/weakness)
- x1 Resistance to Steel (No resistance/weakness)
Infernape (Fire/Fighting):
- x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Steel (Not very effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)
- x2 Weakness to Ground (Super Effective)
Empoleon (Water/Steel):
- x1 Resistance to Grass (No resistance/weakness
- x2 Weakness to Ground (Super Effective)
- x1 Resistance to Fire (No resistance/weakness)
- x2 Weakness to Fighting (Super Effective)
Generation IV really pushes this hypothesis to its limits because it seems that the balance is broken. In fact, it's not--it's simply changed (dramatically). Now, Torterra loses its resistance to Empoleon, Empoleon loses its resistance to Infernape, and Infernape gains a weakness to Torterra while not gaining a resistance to Empoleon. In other words, they are balanced in that they are all capable of making super effective/unresisted hits on each other with attacks of their type. I know this seems like a stretch, but taking only into account type-pairing, Generation IV remains balanced (though, perhaps overly so), because no starter gains a true type advantage against any of the others.
Generation V
Serperior (Grass):
- x2 Weakness to Fire (Super Effective)
- x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
- x0.5 Resistance to Water (Not very effective)
Emboar (Fire/Fighting):
- x2 Weakness to Water (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Resistance to Grass (Not very effective)
Samurott (Water):
- x2 Weakness to Grass (Super Effective)
- x0.5 Weakness to Fire (Not very effective)
- x1 Resistance to Fighting (No resistance/weakness)
Generation V regains the normal balance proposed in my hypothesis, with Grass > Water > Fire > Grass once again.
So, as I think I've demonstrated, it is very unlikely, at best, that Froakie's fully evolved form will include a pairing of Water/Ice or Water/Flying unless Chespin were to gain a type-pairing of Grass/Steel (unless Froakie were Water/Ice and Chespin were Grass/Fighting, or, Froakie were Water/Flying and Chespin were Grass/Rock).
So, there's my hypothesis. And based on that, plus some suspicions that I think can be reasonably drawn from the teaser trailer, here are my:
Final Type-Pairing Predictions
Chespin (Final evolved form)
Grass/Fighting or Pure Grass
Fennekin (Final evolved form)
Fire/Psychic or Pure Fire
Froakie (Final evolved form)
Water/Dark or Pure Water
The reasoning behind my predictions: rather than advantaging any of the starters in their fully evolved form, I have a feeling GameFreak will choose to more or less completely handicap each starter against the type it is initially weak against (Grass > Water/Fighting > Dark) > (Water> Fire/Dark >Psychic) > (Fire > Grass/Psychic > Fighting).
Grass/Fighting or Pure Grass
Fennekin (Final evolved form)
Fire/Psychic or Pure Fire
Froakie (Final evolved form)
Water/Dark or Pure Water
The reasoning behind my predictions: rather than advantaging any of the starters in their fully evolved form, I have a feeling GameFreak will choose to more or less completely handicap each starter against the type it is initially weak against (Grass > Water/Fighting > Dark) > (Water> Fire/Dark >Psychic) > (Fire > Grass/Psychic > Fighting).
AND
Starter Stat Distributions--
Based on Generations II and IV, which both have the Grass starter with a total of 318 total base stats, Fire with 309 total base stats, and Water with 314 total base stats.
Chespin
HP: 63
Attack: 65
Defense: 55
Sp. Attack: 45
Sp. Defense: 50
Speed: 40
Fennekin
HP: 45
Attack: 44
Defense: 40
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 65
Speed: 60
Froakie
HP: 52
Attack: 55
Defense: 45
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 45
Speed: 65
Chespin
HP: 63
Attack: 65
Defense: 55
Sp. Attack: 45
Sp. Defense: 50
Speed: 40
Fennekin
HP: 45
Attack: 44
Defense: 40
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 65
Speed: 60
Froakie
HP: 52
Attack: 55
Defense: 45
Sp. Attack: 55
Sp. Defense: 45
Speed: 65
TL;DR: Froakie probably won't be Water/Ice or Water/Flying UNLESS Chespin ends up being Grass/Steel (for either), Grass/Fighting (for Water/Ice) or Grass/Rock (for Water/Flying).
Also, Fennekin will be Fire/Fighting.
SQUIRTLETamer08
lower shiny ratio!
I actually did know that. haha. Samurott is awesome though so I am glad that they had trouble creating a final evolution for oshawott.
blazenkin does look pretty stupid
βƹβƹ ɱɪɢηѻη
Well-Known Member
Chespin is supposedly a hedgehog according to its Japanese name. And Fennekin is a fennec according to its French name.
Pepsi_Plunge
Dojyaaa~~aan
halloweenmeyer44
Member
Fennekin --> Fire/Rock: Fennec fox, desert, I can see how it would connect. I keep imagining some awesome sphinx like pokemon. I know the sphinx has a feline body, but whatever
Froakie --> Water/Ice: Just to go a long with everyone's speculation about the ice move. I can also see the foam becoming a sack for the winds and it being able to summon storms, like blizzard. I know the sack of winds is more flying type but shut up
Chespin --> Grass/???: I honestly have no idea where they're going to go with this. I think Chespin is going to be one b.a. though.
Also, the secondary types help to reverse the trumping of the types, and even if Chespin stays he does neutral damage to Fennekin instead of 1/2
Froakie --> Water/Ice: Just to go a long with everyone's speculation about the ice move. I can also see the foam becoming a sack for the winds and it being able to summon storms, like blizzard. I know the sack of winds is more flying type but shut up
Chespin --> Grass/???: I honestly have no idea where they're going to go with this. I think Chespin is going to be one b.a. though.
Also, the secondary types help to reverse the trumping of the types, and even if Chespin stays he does neutral damage to Fennekin instead of 1/2
sorry for the misspell blaziken has awesome stats but looks stupid
Flame Haji
Ground Gym Leader
True, I guess, but it is still a no from me, it does not even look like those are pokemon.
I liked you until I read the last part lol.
Also I'm still rooting for Froakie to end up as a Water/Fighting. I also have a theory explaining why it will (probably) end up being that type:
I like Fennec Fox. Tbh I always thought Chespin more as a chipmunk, because I always thought of chestnuts when I saw his name... though if this knowledge is true then whatevs.
CommonSense
Member
I had to have something in there to force people to read all that stuff I wrote out... I worked far too long for it to be overlooked so casually, hahah.
halloweenmeyer44
Member
I wish I thought of that. I've had three posts over looked on this very thread
haha your going to fit in perfectly here
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