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Starter Speculation/Discussion Thread

Which starter would you use?

  • Chespin

    Votes: 845 26.8%
  • Fennekin

    Votes: 1,329 42.2%
  • Froakie

    Votes: 849 27.0%
  • NONE, Dunsparce looks better

    Votes: 127 4.0%

  • Total voters
    3,150
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I must ask if you've ever played in the over-used metagame since the fourth generation?

I understand that they are not actually balanced in practice; that's not my argument. What I mean to say is that the type advantages and disadvantages are not imbalanced, not that a particular PokeMon is not better for competitive play (in which case, Infernape obviously overshadows the other starters of its generation to a large degree).
 

Ironfish

pokemon scientist
I must ask if you've ever played in the over-used metagame since the fourth generation?

You seem more... shall we say more experienced than most serebii forums beginners do you care to explain or are you just someone who was on another forum and just joined serebii?
 

Tavo_Zx

The Iron Man
I must ask if you've ever played in the over-used metagame since the fourth generation and DEFEATED Infernape with Empoleon. If so, how often does that outcome actually occur?

He is probably talking about in game play you know. Besides, on the competitive metagame Pokémon usually have sets that help counter their weaknesses. Also, I have seen Empoleon as a Stealth Rocker, not as a sweeper, which makes it a bit obvious as to why it is hard to beat an Infernape using an Empleon in the competitive scene.
 
O Fennekin, my Fennekin! I hope its final form is like a beautiful fox-woman... xD She's definitely the starter I'd pick. I hope she gets a dual-type of Psychic, that would make my year. I love Psychic-types, I love foxes, and I generally enjoy the Fire-type starters due to their destructive power. It'll be refreshing to deviate from that brutish stereotype, and make the Fire-type starter more elegant and lovely.

Chespin looks like a derpy woodchuck, and given that he's the Grass starter, that seems to be a fitting approximation. I don't think I want a Ratattard knock-off as my starter, though, even if he is kind of aderpable. Now watch him have the best stats and/or the most badass-looking evos of the three, and make me eat my words with a slice of humble pie, a shameful shake, and some fries of disdain.

Froakie is kind of a derpy name, and he's simply a frog... that can spew liquid nitrogen, apparently. I could imagine Froakie being a hyper-intelligent "spellcaster" and having numerous elemental powers under his command. I'll bet his middle evo will look like Yoda, and his final evo will resemble Gandalf. I kinda hope he's a Water/Ice-type, it'd make that liquid nitrogen attack make some kind of sense.

There's no doubt that all three 6th-gen starters appear to have their unique sets of pros and cons, and as fun as it is to speculate wildly on the possible future evolutions, typings, and stats/movesets, I'm a fan of patience and perseverance. I am content to wait for new information to be revealed, and with 10 months to go before the simultaneous worldwide release, there's plenty yet to be revealed.

Edit: And within the length of time it took me to write up this post, several good theories have been presented that trump my own. Ah well, I still fully expect Chespin to be adorable yet deceptively powerful. If they do make the starters Fire/Psychic, Grass/Dark and Water/Fighting, I really would enjoy that matchup.
 
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Professor Squirtle

Professor of Rain
I understand that they are not actually balanced in practice; that's not my argument. What I mean to say is that the type advantages and disadvantages are not imbalanced, not that a particular PokeMon is not better for competitive play (in which case, Infernape obviously overshadows the other starters of its generation to a large degree).
Well, I personally don't really know how else to indicate any so-called balance if not through their abilities to defeat one another in a way expressed by their opposing types. In an experimental setting would your argument hold water? Really, the only experimental setting in which this balance can be tested and/or understood properly is through battle. Whereas yes, their mere typings depict equality on the shallowest of surfaces, in Pokemon there are great are great variations that decide what is balanced. For example: Infernape's movepool is incredibly varied. By comparison, Empoleon's is rather lacking. Infernape is unbalanced compared to the other two starters in the only way I know to identify this potential balance. The nominal comparison of types is just rather trivial to me since competitive battle reflects balances and power directly.
 
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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I don't know about the argument going on here, but here's what I think about the whole ridiculous Starter typing issue people seem to have.

1. When the hell (outside your rival, who naturally will have an advantage against your starter) are you going to face another starter?
2. EVEN if you battle another starter within the same generation, what the hell kind of odds you're going to use your starter against it, especially if said starter has a primary typing advantage over you. And not just for the hell of it, either.
3. How many other Pokémon exist in the Pokémon world right now? Why does it matter if one starter has an advantage or disadvantage over the other?

Seriously why does it matter?

Has there been enough situations where a player has been screwed over because each player was down to their last Pokémon, one of the 15 fully evolved starters (not counting 6th gen since that obviously doesn't count) had a disadvantage against one and the battle was lost as a result?

But even if that's the case, how is it the starter's typing fault for players who lose?

Seriously, outside of giving all starter Pokémon 4x weakness to another like Fire/Ground, Water, Ground, Grass/Steel or Bug, I really don't think the typing matters at all. Well except fire/fighting, but that's only because it's been done to death.
 

Ungoliath

Not a GenWunner
Fire/Ground wolf perhaps?
Do want.
Like I said somewhere else if not here, if it evolves into a wolf, automatic favorite Pokemon.
Let's just recall that it has a x4 weakness against water...A common type. And it's still weak to Ground by x2, so it's not something that we should cheer on :p

Anyway, a Fire/Psychic would have:
x2 Weakness to Dark, Ghost, Ground, Rock and Water.
x2 Resistances to Fighting, Fire, Grass, Ice, Psychic and Steel.
(Nothing on the x4 side)
I bold the typing in discussion because it screams balance.

Water/Fighting
(Again, nothing on the x4 side)
x2 Weakness to Electric, Flying, Grass and Psychic.
x2 Resistances to Bug, Dark, Fire, Ice, Rock, Steel and Water.

Grass/Dark
(One x4 to Bug which is weird...But in the balance of the starters doesn't really affect it)
x2 Weakness to Fighting, Fire, Flying, Ice and Poison
x2 Resistances to Dark, Electric, Ghost, Grass, Ground and Water.
Immunity to Psychic.

So the balance here is quite clear and almost perfect:
Fennekin will win:
Against Frokie with her Psychic type.
Against Chespin with her Fire tye.

Froakie will win:
Against Fennekin with his Water type.
Against Chespin with his Fighting type.

Chespin will win:
Against Fennekin with his Dark type.
Against Froakie with his Grass type.

Yes, I'm being captain obvious but I think that some comments here deserved this to be reminded.
 
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Ironfish

pokemon scientist
Prof.Squrtle don't be a snob please you catch more combee with honey than repels
 
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Raguna

Magikarp. The best.
You know what? I think I will restart until I get a male Fennekin. That's right, I'm a rebel!
 

Silent Conversation

Chart obsessed wanker
3. How many other Pokémon exist in the Pokémon world right now? Why does it matter if one starter has an advantage or disadvantage over the other?

Seriously why does it matter?

Nobody's arguing that they personally think the advantage/disadvantage between the starters matters. But every single past generation has been made up by starters that have somewhat equal advantages and disadvantages to the other starters, so if somebody wants to make a prediction for what they think the typing will be (not necessarily what they want it to be), then they should take advantages and disadvantages into account because that's what the designers of the starters are most likely taking into account.
 

Professor Squirtle

Professor of Rain
He is probably talking about in game play you know. Besides, on the competitive metagame Pokémon usually have sets that help counter their weaknesses. Also, I have seen Empoleon as a Stealth Rocker, not as a sweeper, which makes it a bit obvious as to why it is hard to beat an Infernape using an Empleon in the competitive scene.
Stealth Rockers are not actual counters, so to speak, to Pokemon even whose types suffer greatly from their primary method of deconstruction. Yes, Infernape takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock (The Fighting type helps resist it) and can scare off an Empoleon with a variety of potential moves (notably Close Combat). A counter, by definition in a competitive (ie any battle setting) is a Pokemon that can fearlessly switch into an opposing force. Empoleon cannot safely switch into Infernape (not many things can). Going by that same definition, none of these Pokemon truly counter one another (unless the move is obviously foreseen) since they each possess types which can OHKO each other. But by far, Infernape is imbalanced in terms of its competitive utility and variability. Empoleon takes a bit of setting up to use right, and even after that there are very foolproof counters to its limited pool.
 
Nobody's arguing that they personally think the advantage/disadvantage between the starters matters. But every single past generation has been made up by starters that have somewhat equal advantages and disadvantages to the other starters, so if somebody wants to make a prediction for what they think the typing will be (not necessarily what they want it to be), then they should take advantages and disadvantages into account because that's what the designers of the starters are most likely taking into account.

Exactly.

It's not so much that it's of dire importance to anyone--and I'm sorry if it came across that way--it's more that it fits a easily traceable and well-defined pattern.

The pattern is what matters, in regard to how starter type-pairings work, not the competitive reality of the game.
 

Ironfish

pokemon scientist
Stealth Rockers are not actual counters, so to speak, to Pokemon even whose types suffer greatly from their primary method of deconstruction. Yes, Infernape takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock (The Fighting type helps resist it) and can scare off an Empoleon with a variety of potential moves (notably Close Combat). A counter, by definition in a competitive (ie any battle setting) is a Pokemon that can fearlessly switch into an opposing force. Empoleon cannot safely switch into Infernape (not many things can). Going by that same definition, none of these Pokemon truly counter one another (unless the move is obviously foreseen) since they each possess types which can OHKO each other. But by far, Infernape is imbalanced in terms of its competitive utility and variability. Empoleon takes a bit of setting up to use right, and even after that there are very foolproof counters to its limited pool.

Chandalure with flash fire can switch in most anything infernape can dish out short of Hidden Power
 

Professor Squirtle

Professor of Rain
Prof.Squrtle don't be a snob please you catch more combee with honey than repels
If my analyses are offensive I apologize. I have retained utter civility throughout all of my educational arguments. And also, I would never waste honey on Combees; Vespiquen is severely weak to Stealth Rock among other things which make it of little practical utility to any hopeful competitive team.
 

meismadatyou

Johto League Master
I don't know if this has already been established, but i just realized all the water starters are semi-aquatic animals. x)

Turtle, Aligator, Mudfish, Penguin, Sea Otter, Frog. It's so genius!
 

Tavo_Zx

The Iron Man
You know what? I think I will restart until I get a male Fennekin. That's right, I'm a rebel!

You won't have to restart that much, since its gender ratio will probably be 87.5% male and 12.5% female as it has always been.

Stealth Rockers are not actual counters, so to speak, to Pokemon even whose types suffer greatly from their primary method of deconstruction. Yes, Infernape takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock (The Fighting type helps resist it) and can scare off an Empoleon with a variety of potential moves (notably Close Combat). A counter, by definition in a competitive (ie any battle setting) is a Pokemon that can fearlessly switch into an opposing force. Empoleon cannot safely switch into Infernape (not many things can). Going by that same definition, none of these Pokemon truly counter one another (unless the move is obviously foreseen) since they each possess types which can OHKO each other. But by far, Infernape is imbalanced in terms of its competitive utility and variability. Empoleon takes a bit of setting up to use right, and even after that there are very foolproof counters to its limited pool.

Thanks for the free competitive Pokémon class xD. I used to battle but I was never really good at it.
 
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