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Starters Discussion Thread v2

Who is your favorite starter?

  • Grass-type, Chespin

    Votes: 247 21.3%
  • Fire-type, Fennekin

    Votes: 328 28.3%
  • Water-type, Froakie

    Votes: 484 41.8%
  • None of the above. GOOMY!

    Votes: 100 8.6%

  • Total voters
    1,159
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ebevan91

Well-Known Member
Delphox's problem is that it doesn't learn any powerful Fire type moves until very late. Having Ember as its only special Fire attack until level 36 was a joke. A move like Flame Burst would've been good, somewhere between Ember and Mystical Fire.

Its Psychic moves are good, though, with Psybeam, Psyshock, and Psychic. TMs can take care of the rest.

Nevermind why it doesn't get Thunderbolt or Focus Miss. Why in the world does Delphox get Rain Dance? Sure, we're looking at a Psychic type here, but really? Rain Dance?

I have no idea what the point in that move is. Why on Earth have Rain Dance which WEAKENS fire moves?
 

Taodragon

Training Anaylst
Nevermind why it doesn't get Thunderbolt or Focus Miss. Why in the world does Delphox get Rain Dance? Sure, we're looking at a Psychic type here, but really? Rain Dance?

Because... Flareon got it?
 

Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
Because... Flareon got it?

...it did? And I never knew this whole time... I guess that almost makes sense since Eevee gets it, being Normal type and all. But that still doesn't make much sense either. Delphox, though. If it had Thunderbolt and Thunder, then maybe Rain Dance wouldn't the a total waste, but...

At least it's not DW Delibird? I don't know. Delphox was fantastic with what it got for in-game, at least, but those TM's barely give it options for competitive.
 
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Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
Delphox's problem is that it doesn't learn any powerful Fire type moves until very late. Having Ember as its only special Fire attack until level 36 was a joke. A move like Flame Burst would've been good, somewhere between Ember and Mystical Fire.

Its Psychic moves are good, though, with Psybeam, Psyshock, and Psychic. TMs can take care of the rest.



I have no idea what the point in that move is. Why on Earth have Rain Dance which WEAKENS fire moves?
Eh it's better than Fletchinder at least since the robin doesn't get Acrobatics until the 40's (assuming one evolved it).
Because... Flareon got it?

And Heatmor too!
 
I prefer Chespin as I always go with the grass starter, but I really dislike all the final forms cause they change completely from what the originals are, many say that the starters usually have a lot of changes but not that much, I just dont like them and it doesnt make any sense, is like if 1 person made the first 2 forms and someone else was just informed what they looked like but never saw the actual arts.
 

shadowF

Well-Known Member
What is the best nature for torchic?
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
Nevermind why it doesn't get Thunderbolt or Focus Miss. Why in the world does Delphox get Rain Dance? Sure, we're looking at a Psychic type here, but really? Rain Dance?

I still don't understand what it's doing with Power-Up Punch, of all things.

What is the best nature for torchic?

Probably Adamant, unless you're going mixed or not using Speed Boost for some reason.
 

Professor Squirtle

Professor of Rain
I posted it more for the moves. A lot of people have been complaining about the lack of STAB moves on Chesnaught and Geninja's part.
"A lot of people" is weasel-wording. Who exactly, are these people? And on the contrary, Greninja's hidden ability is Protean, which gives any single move it uses STAB, defeating the purpose for a plethora powerful Dark or Water moves (Although it gets Hydro Pump and Dark Pulse, anyway).
 

Kanethedragon

Veteran Pokegamer
Just a quick word as a competitive player, Protean Greninja=SPEEDY BROKEN BEAST!!!!! The thing has a 12 base higher speed than Latios and an ability that can make it any type from its move pool, including electric if you combine its normal moves with the one that changes normal moves to electric. I gotta say, when I first saw the beginning stage of that frog, I never expected a possibly competitive-rife monstrosity to come out. All in all, it can naturally (assuming move mix with the electric one) can be about 14 of the 18 types, and with Hidden power maybe one extra. Granted though each one can only max themselves at 4, the typing potential gives it A LOT of versatility. If you decide to go along with its second-best stat Sp.Atck, that sorely limits the typing to only 6 types. Still, if it has 31 IVs in speed Sp.Atck and Atck, a 252 252 4(Atck) would still be a good recommendation given the fact that things are most likely going to be STAB and SE anyways.
 
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I got Protein Froakie from the very begining from someone, it's Jolly so it's amazing as "starter"

but for competitive is it better Physical or Special?

I think that physical is better because Water Shuriken and Power-Up Punch set is nice, but Froakie got better Special Attack...

What's better?

BTW Froakie is the best starter ever
 

gabric

Well-Known Member
I gotta say im loving my ingame chesnaught ive yet to realy use the others except for Mega Charizard Y and that seems pretty beast to. im really looking forward to seeing all their strengths
 

Kanethedragon

Veteran Pokegamer
I got Protein Froakie from the very begining from someone, it's Jolly so it's amazing as "starter"

but for competitive is it better Physical or Special?

I think that physical is better because Water Shuriken and Power-Up Punch set is nice, but Froakie got better Special Attack...

What's better?

BTW Froakie is the best starter ever

Well, as I just edited in my previous post, its best stat is indeed Sp.Atck, but it sorely limits its typing options, whereas if you go with Atck, that's its most weakest offensive based stat, but you should have a slightly higher typing choice for it. Thus, as I said, it might be best to have it run semi-phys semi- special since either way it's going to most likely be going first anyways. At a neutral Atck nature it falls around 101-125 or so Atck with IVs at 31 and EVs 4, with the 252 and 31 IVs it should be at 147 as calculated with the neutral nature towards that stat. Beneficial nature and 4 EVs with 31 IVs should be around 133-157. Whilst a neutral Sp.Atck nature should put it at 155 with 31 IVs and 252 EVs, whilst beneficial speed nature should put it at 191 with 31 IVs and 252 EVs. And just for reference, this is at the basic tournament set level of 50. Then you gotta add on move bases and STAB and in some cases Super Effective calculations as well.

On another note, Delphox's HA if used wisely can be a pretty good strategy disruptor as many people tend to use items competitively, but for the most part, I still need to review its moveset and stats before I come to a conclusion about its competitive use.

Another thing to note, the move I was talking about earlier that can potentially heighten Greninja's typing options by 1 is Ion Deluge, which changes normal attacks to Electric, and is learnable by the already decently competitive Lanturn and Ampharos. If you do decide to take that route though, Ampharos would probably be the better option with a run of 31 IVs in Def, Sp.Atck, Sp.Def, and Speed, with a speed beneficial nature and 252 252(Def) 4 (Sp.Def) and HA Plus. Why no 252 in Sp.Atck? Simple, because Ampharos already has a high Sp.Atck stat and plus only serves to help it, thus the last 4 are better used on Sp.Def to keep moderately safe from everyone else while 252 Def to keep safe from Ground users/attacks and then 252 in speed to keep up with the metagame unless you plan to try to insert a Trick Room somewhere.
 
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SageofTruth

Greninja Assassin
I got Protein Froakie from the very begining from someone, it's Jolly so it's amazing as "starter"

but for competitive is it better Physical or Special?

I think that physical is better because Water Shuriken and Power-Up Punch set is nice, but Froakie got better Special Attack...

What's better?

BTW Froakie is the best starter ever

Full special or "mixed" destroys stuff. I put mixed in quotes simpley because all you would be doing is using uturn instead of another special attack. STAB on everything is amazing.
 

Unredemption

Well-Known Member
I got Protein Froakie from the very begining from someone, it's Jolly so it's amazing as "starter"

but for competitive is it better Physical or Special?

I think that physical is better because Water Shuriken and Power-Up Punch set is nice, but Froakie got better Special Attack...

What's better?

BTW Froakie is the best starter ever

I'd take Special Attack any day. Surf + Dark Pulse + Extrasensory is not bad at all (at least, in-game). Water Shruiken has unreliable BP since Greninja doesn't have skill link. If you're looking for a priority move, it can be easily replaced by Aqua Jet (not sure if it has this though).
 

thepinguins

Steel Jester
I'd take Special Attack any day. Surf + Dark Pulse + Extrasensory is not bad at all (at least, in-game). Water Shruiken has unreliable BP since Greninja doesn't have skill link. If you're looking for a priority move, it can be easily replaced by Aqua Jet (not sure if it has this though).

Scald is better than surf. Maybe Greninja has a few egg moves? Like Electric moves.
Eh it's better than Fletchinder at least since the robin doesn't get Acrobatics until the 40's (assuming one evolved it).

HA Fletchinder is great for competitive as it's a great Anti-Mega Blaziken. And Acrobatics isn't great on Fletchinder, I tried (And lost)
 
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PokeAmi

Well-Known Member
I am not very good with this Pokemon's stats, ability, nature thing. So Im gonna ask, and hope for a answer.

-My Delphox is quirky nature, currently lv 76 and the highest stats are Sp. Atk: 202 and speed: 200. Moves: Psychic, Future Sight, Flamethrower and Mystical Fire
-My Greninja is Naive nature, currently lv 69. Highest stats are speed: 204 and Attack: 182 and then Spt. Atk: 177. Moves: Surf, Lick, Water Shuriken and Night slash.

So I guess most ot it sucks, since Im not that familiar with this system, since I have not cared about it before, but I give it a try this time. Should I give Delphox and Greninja new moves that fit they're nature and current stats. If so, what should I switch to, since I have no idea xD
 

MegaLuxray

New Member
since I'm big fire pokemon fan, I have to say Fennekin is my favorite, but Froakie isn't to far behind. Dont really like Chespin.
 

Sprinter1988

Well-Known Member
I went with Fennekin because its typing when evolved is quite cool, as well as being non-fighting!
I really liked Braixen's wand as psybeam and flamethrower look really cool when cast from it.

Froakie is my second favourite, but although I like greninja's typing, I don't like its design.
Chespin is cute enough, but Chesnaught is an awful design with awful typing.
 
I am not very good with this Pokemon's stats, ability, nature thing. So Im gonna ask, and hope for a answer.

-My Delphox is quirky nature, currently lv 76 and the highest stats are Sp. Atk: 202 and speed: 200. Moves: Psychic, Future Sight, Flamethrower and Mystical Fire
-My Greninja is Naive nature, currently lv 69. Highest stats are speed: 204 and Attack: 182 and then Spt. Atk: 177. Moves: Surf, Lick, Water Shuriken and Night slash.

So I guess most ot it sucks, since Im not that familiar with this system, since I have not cared about it before, but I give it a try this time. Should I give Delphox and Greninja new moves that fit they're nature and current stats. If so, what should I switch to, since I have no idea xD
Quirky is nuetral and Naive is + spd & - sp def so none of these effect attack/special attack =]
 
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