Starters Discussion Thread v2

[Shraeder]

I didn't pick him, but Froakie is a pure blessing. it answers all of my problems with Water starters of the past. Not that I disliked any of them. I actually like them all quite well, it's just that they were all pretty tank-like. Sluggish but strong. I was just waiting for a change of pace.

And Greninja delivered @_____@

Phenomenal speed stat, a wide and stylish movepool befitting a ninja, great offensive stats in tandem, and PROTEAN. Great stuff. The only problem is that tongue scarf, but I can look past it xD

Delphox is very much to my liking as well for that matter. My favorite in fact. Very beautiful and sage-like, right down to the name. It really feels like a fully realized and grown up version of what Braixen was meant to be in it's design (A Mage). And another nice change of pace, being Fire/Psychic. I was fortunate enough for mine to be Hasty when I picked her too :3

Chespin's line, I haven't really gotten a chance to know, but I will train with the Chespin that I got from Shauna and give some thoughts down the road.

I think Delphox's Sugimori Art makes it look a lot better than its in game sprite. In game its like a fox version of Gothitelle, while its artwork makes it look more mobile and in-action.

 

[Wilenius]

in my opinion froakie was the best looking starter. and then comes the fennekin.
and i took froakie just because i knew that you would get fennekin after beating the elite 4 :3


EDIT: if you choose froakie, if you choose another starter you would have got another pokemon

 

[ModernGamer]

After using each starter in pokemon showdown, I have come to favor fennekin

Delphox: This pokemon evolves to have a relatively high bst. It seems to be best used with life orb or choice scarf.

*Life orb is useful because you already have a high base speed stat. More damage = winning
*Speed EVs +Choice Scarf can be a life saver vs excadril. Not only do you outspeed almost anything that comes against you, but you can easily out-speed sand rush excadril. It is also a good counter for mega gengar should you predict a switch-in.

 

[SageofTruth]

It's a tongue!?? Eww...

I personally chose Froakie. Although Froakie looks kinda silly, his evolutions are cool. I've always chosen the Water starter (Other than Charmander, who I chose as my second starter in this game and would choose if I played a Kanto game). Delphox just looks kinda...weird. At least Nintendo didn't give us another Fire/Fighting starter (ugh!). I also think Chesnaught is cool too. But Greninja is a ninja frog. He's Toxicroak's buddy.

BTW my in-team Greninja doesn't have Protean...is that OK?

in game yea but competitively no. Greninja would be a meh pokemon without protean.

 

[SzubaSon]

Greninja is an absolute animal he easily fits into any build. i just wish i had him timid mine is quiet i didnt check the nature and was already too far when i did but he still works good i did him 252 speed and 252 sp attack. but is there any way to get another from this friend safari (i have no idea how it works) please pm me if you know

 

[CrusherTheFeraligatr]

Chesnaught has grown on me. He any good?

 

[bolter1]

Chesnaught has grown on me. He any good?

He's got good physical bulk and Attack which makes him a good tank, but he doesn't have the best movepool, especially when it comes to Fighting moves. That being said, I really like Chesnaught and he might be my second favourite Starter (Swampert still beats it), which is quite an achievement.

 

[Lion Demon]

I love these 3 starters equally: I really do. All three of them have noteworthy traits as far as appearance goes and they're competitive viable too. Gamefreak definitely learned their lesson after the poor reception of the Unova starters final evolutoions.

 

[SergantGold]

I didn't pick him, but Froakie is a pure blessing. it answers all of my problems with Water starters of the past. Not that I disliked any of them. I actually like them all quite well, it's just that they were all pretty tank-like. Sluggish but strong. I was just waiting for a change of pace.

And Greninja delivered @_____@

Phenomenal speed stat, a wide and stylish movepool befitting a ninja, great offensive stats in tandem, and PROTEAN. Great stuff. The only problem is that tongue scarf, but I can look past it xD

Delphox is very much to my liking as well for that matter. My favorite in fact. Very beautiful and sage-like, right down to the name. It really feels like a fully realized and grown up version of what Braixen was meant to be in it's design (A Mage). And another nice change of pace, being Fire/Psychic. I was fortunate enough for mine to be Hasty when I picked her too :3

Chespin's line, I haven't really gotten a chance to know, but I will train with the Chespin that I got from Shauna and give some thoughts down the road.

FYI Delphox has about 115 base SpA and around 104 speed. Not sluggish at all. It also has nice special bulk that is at a similar height to the speed and spa (around 100 according to calcs)and the rest of his stats are passable.

DISREGARDE ABOVE THIS LINE I MISREAD YOUR POST
But Greninja's Protean makes him king
And that is the only reason he is going to be so good. He would be probable High RU low UU in tiering communities without it

 

[Agony099]

I don't mind Froakie or Fennekin and their evolutions, but the final evolution of Crespin looks random. The first two seem to fit each other, the final one is just too weird looking for me.

It's a bit interesting to look at but overall using it, it wasn't too bad, helped in some spots

 

[SageofTruth]

FYI Delphox has about 115 base SpA and around 104 speed. Not sluggish at all. It also has nice special bulk that is at a similar height to the speed and spa (around 100 according to calcs)and the rest of his stats are passable.

DISREGARDE ABOVE THIS LINE I MISREAD YOUR POST
But Greninja's Protean makes him king
And that is the only reason he is going to be so good. He would be probable High RU low UU in tiering communities without it

I can picture Scizor and Greninja walking into a UU/RU bar with shades , turning to everyone and saying "You mad bro?"

 

[Cresselia92]

I doubt Greninja will become OU. Mach Punch can kill it before it even has a chance to change type, due to its low defenses. Otherwise, if it uses Protean Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch/Pursuit are its bane.

 

[Taodragon]

I doubt Greninja will become OU. Mach Punch can kill it before it even has a chance to change type, due to its low defenses. Otherwise, if it uses Protean Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch/Pursuit are its bane.

The only users of Mach Punch are pretty obvious to guess (Breloom, Conkeldurr) so Greninja is probably not switching in on any of them. Also, neither of those two carry Pursuit or Sucker Punch so if it used Shadow Sneak, their Mach Punch would go right through it.

Finally, if one attack could screw over a Pokemon, then Pokemon like Volcarona would've been out of OU with the much more prevalent Stone Edge and Stealth Rock.

 

[Cresselia92]

The only users of Mach Punch are pretty obvious to guess (Breloom, Conkeldurr) so Greninja is probably not switching in on any of them. Also, neither of those two carry Pursuit or Sucker Punch so if it used Shadow Sneak, their Mach Punch would go right through it.

Finally, if one attack could screw over a Pokemon, then Pokemon like Volcarona would've been out of OU with the much more prevalent Stone Edge and Stealth Rock.

Priority in general is a killer for it. Also, if it can't take down its opponent, it can end up being taken down. I would say that Greninja is a glass cannon, in that sense.

 

[SageofTruth]

I doubt Greninja will become OU. Mach Punch can kill it before it even has a chance to change type, due to its low defenses. Otherwise, if it uses Protean Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch/Pursuit are its bane.

Protean Greninja OHKO or 2HKOs a lot of potent threats.

Look at some math from a Greninja discussion thread on Smogon:

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Jellicent: 346-408 (85.85 - 101.24%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Vaporeon: 229-273 (49.46 - 58.96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 320-377 (79.2 - 93.31%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon: 390-458 (91.54 - 107.51%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Alakazam: 227-269 (90.07 - 106.74%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 208-246 (76.47 - 90.44%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 253-298 (96.56 - 113.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gengar: 208-246 (79.38 - 93.89%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

The three frail ghost/psychics all have a chance to be OHKOed by Hydro Pump after just rocks, Dark Pulse is not needed in these cases.

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Jirachi: 144-172 (35.64 - 42.57%) -- 91.55% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Jirachi: 199-235 (49.25 - 58.16%) -- 64.45% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Jirachi: 199-234 (58.35 - 68.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 160 SpD Metagross: 185-218 (50.82 - 59.89%) -- 84.77% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Metagross: 218-257 (72.18 - 85.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb (custom) Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Reuniclus: 227-269 (53.53 - 63.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


Greninja is a serious threat late game.

 

[Taodragon]

Priority in general is a killer for it. Also, if it can't take down its opponent, it can end up being taken down. I would say that Greninja is a glass cannon, in that sense.

And it has ways to avoid them, if you think the opponents' carrying Mach punch, use Shadow Sneak, bullet punch, either stay in your current typing or use HP fire or water shuriken, sucker punch, stay in your current typing, so on and so forth. Greninja isn't really that different from other Pokemon that are "glass cannons" in ou, you have to know what to avoid and what to come in and wreck on.

 

[Dragalge]

Yeah Protean Greninja is going to be most likely OU for sure. It's unpredictability makes it play mind games. Granted it won't be too scary but it has a nice array of moves to work with. One counter/revenge killer I see is Talonflame who can Brave Bird it with Gale Wings.

 

[Chibified]

I enjoyed playing with Chespin. Cute little bugger. Definitely my favorite of the starters, I didn't have much of a team, tbh, just him, Florges, Blastoise, and Tyrantrum. Oh, and I got thoroughly screwed. Mine had a Mild Nature, and I started on release day.

After spending 31 hours trying to breed egg moves... all I can do is say GG GF. Nice job of making sure he can't be used competitively. No Shell Smash, no good fighting moves, a typing that makes tanking difficult (anything with Grass is kinda screwed due to being weak to a 3rd of the game), and just... HOW does that hidden ability work?!

Yet... I still love them.

 

[Rio!]

I enjoyed playing with Chespin. Cute little bugger. Definitely my favorite of the starters, I didn't have much of a team, tbh, just him, Florges, Blastoise, and Tyrantrum. Oh, and I got thoroughly screwed. Mine had a Mild Nature, and I started on release day.

After spending 31 hours trying to breed egg moves... all I can do is say GG GF. Nice job of making sure he can't be used competitively. No Shell Smash, no good fighting moves, a typing that makes tanking difficult (anything with Grass is kinda screwed due to being weak to a 3rd of the game), and just... HOW does that hidden ability work?!

Yet... I still love them.

It is a shame since he would have a been a prime candidate for it. XD
He *might* see slightly more use on a Trick Room team at least...Is it known whether or not he can at least learn Mach Punch?

 

[CrusherTheFeraligatr]

I enjoyed playing with Chespin. Cute little bugger. Definitely my favorite of the starters, I didn't have much of a team, tbh, just him, Florges, Blastoise, and Tyrantrum. Oh, and I got thoroughly screwed. Mine had a Mild Nature, and I started on release day.

After spending 31 hours trying to breed egg moves... all I can do is say GG GF. Nice job of making sure he can't be used competitively. No Shell Smash, no good fighting moves, a typing that makes tanking difficult (anything with Grass is kinda screwed due to being weak to a 3rd of the game), and just... HOW does that hidden ability work?!

Yet... I still love them.

What egg moves does he get?

Oh, and noticing your little thing up there-you can get plushies of the line for $34, and just him for $15.