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Strongest Traveling Companions?

Strongest companions?


  • Total voters
    136
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Pikachu979

Sinnoh Champion
i would say dawn her mammoswine,togekiss, and ambipom are all really strong pokemon. i know people will say ambipom was ash's and togekiss belongs to the princess but that doesnt change the fact that they are hers now. plus in best wishes quilava got more hits on ash's pikachu while he got no hits because they were countered.
 
i would say dawn her mammoswine,togekiss, and ambipom are all really strong pokemon. i know people will say ambipom was ash's and togekiss belongs to the princess but that doesnt change the fact that they are hers now. plus in best wishes quilava got more hits on ash's pikachu while he got no hits because they were countered.

Looks like someone hasn't seen the episode where Dawn gave away Ambipom to play ping pong.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
Irrelevant.

It was completely relevant because Ash based on some of highly questionable moves he made in Unova series wasnt battling at same level of strength, knowledge and adaptation as we get to dee in Sinnoh and i would dare to say Hoenn/Johto as well. At least i believe he didnt.

So Dawn Quillava being tied to Ash Pikachu in terms of strength doesnt add up much, if taken in account Ash downplay of skill and Pikachu being drained out of full power due to plot fix called Zekrom.

In fact i dont see anything so impressive in Dawn pokemon team or her battle skills that would warrant to be considered as stronger trainer than May, Misty, Cilan or Iris at all.

Nevermind fact that Iris, Cilan and Misty has more battling experience as trainers than May/Dawn have due to participating more in trainer battles than its case with coordinators.

Personally, I think that battle said more about Ash's superior skills than May's because she was in her element (contests) and had type advantage and still could not win. Ash could NEVER beat Dawn in a contest battle.

Unless you have proof to back up such claims your just blind guessing.

Especially when Ash proved time after time how he has ability of coming up with unorthodox, experimental strategies allowing him to manage himself in unknown elements. As consistently portrayed with all kind of competitions such as pokeringer, elemental tournaments focuing on one specific type, pokemon races, pokeathlon, sumo tournaments etc.

Contests being included. In fact only in few type of events hehad trouble to adapt appropriately, such as underwater battles as seein in scoring worse result than Misty when battling Dorian, fishing type of contests being too impatient , or specific sport based tournaments like ping pong.

Considering how for all intentsd and purposes May actually won more than she lost contests and many of them were won through downright knocking diwn opposing side through oure force.

Chances are that Dawn who in my opinion isnt any better as coordinator than May wouldnt crush Ash or have easy time either.

How many times have we seen Ash with the type advantage over gym leaders, for example, and still pull off the win. Yet when he went against Iris, he was crushed.

And how many times did we saw type advantage working in trainer or gym leader favor causing Ash to lose? You cannot talk in absolutes here dividing things in black and white thinking.

Ash lose against Iris wasnt result of "Iris superior battle abilities", but joint of all kind of factors.

Such as element of surprise, luck, type devantage, exhaustion of pokemon in battle, type of terrain, choice of attacks, skill and fact of Pikachu being downgraded in its strength not battling at full capacity.

Just because Iris defeated Ash in situation A, does not mean how exact same scenario would happen in B or C situation being type of propositional fallacy.

Totodile sucked and kingler was way overrated so that doesn't mean much. Besides, the Whirl Cup was a B level nothing tournament anyway.

Again making inference based on lack of evidence to support your claims. In post above yours i already covered Totodile subject with its wins against pokemon of respectable strength and big agility he was known for dancing on oppoing sdides attacks evading them;

-going against assesment of this pokemon being bad.

Kingler was anything but overrated. Until Frogadier it was possibly strongest water type Ash had handling by itself all three pokemon Mandi threw at him in Indigo league, destroyed Cloyster armor defeating it like it was childplay in second round and proved to have devastating power when one crab hammer attack was enough to cause several whirlpools in Whirl Cup.

Nonetheless Whirl Cup was anything but provincial like insignificant tournament as your trying to make it be. Attempt of trying to downplay strength of competition to discredit someone achievements and success as trainer doesnt make your position any stronger.

For start all kind of trainers from all kind of regions come and participate in this competition. To measure up strength, intelligence and compatibility with your pokemon.

It has lore based around itself about ancient times, water masters who learned how to use water specie to full potential in past, mystical items such as water pendant, sea sapphire etc being able to gather energy of all water pokemon at one place.

Winner gets prestigue title Alpha Omega of water pokemon serving as spring board in bringing you closer toward type master title and item which can increase power of water pokemon by multiple times.

Only best 64 can enter 6 rounds of battling with weak competition being eliminated through preliminaries with Misty coming top 8 or top 4 based on what kind of ranking system was applied there).

And is held only once every 3 years having according to story long and well known tradition behind itself as evidenced through prof. Elm and sea priest Maya talks.

So if anything Whirl Cup was highly prestigious and known worldwide that in some aspects it held bigger value than Grand Festivals themselves and definitely much bigger importance than Don George battle clubs.

So theory of this being "low class event" goes down the drain.

I've seen more anti-DP bias on this forum than pro DP, so I don't know what you're talking about.

There is far more love for DP to the point of becoming repulsively overrated, than its case with dislike if we go by polls and praise Sinnoh gets seeming to be fan favorite series on this site.

So indeed i have no idea from where you even get such presumptions.
Just because everyone didn't liked DP or thought it was "best series ever" doesnt mean how series are underrated.

If you want example of underrated that would be called Johto and Unova series.
 

Xuxuba

Well-Known Member
Nevermind fact that Iris, Cilan and Misty has more battling experience as trainers than May/Dawn have due to participating more in trainer battles than its case with coordinators.
I agree with you in almost everything else you mentioned above but not this. You see Iris had 2 strong pokemon. 1 of them only now started gaining trust on her battling skills but he still prefers to act on his own. The other does trust her now but she rarely uses him so he will not get training and he will become stable. Emolga wasn't weak, but she wasn't impressive either, she was really impulsive, didn't like battling thay much and she still doesn't respect her trainer sometimes. Kibago is just a baby and his only source of power is a unreliable move - i mean, he does have scratch but that move isn't exactly powerful. She doesn't usually uses strategy, like Clemont does, nor she has the creativity and quick thinking that trainers like Ash and May has. She has a tough personality and doesn't give up easily but that isn't enough to make her the strongest companion.
Cilan is the weakest of the BW crew, he is usually the first one to lose. If he can't beat Iris than he is certainly not the strongest companion.
They did battle a lot due to the nature of BW (a really fast paced, full of action series) but most of those battles were against not so great trainers and wild pokemon.
I mean, i agree with you that they have more experience than Dawn, hell i am even considerating the fact that Misty might be stronger than May, but i do not think that Iris and Cilan had more experience than May.

May already had 4 fully evolved strong pokemon (Blaziken, Venusaur, Beautfly and Glaceon, all of them obeyed her completely) when Iris just had caught her third pokemon (1 was still a baby who couldn't even use one single move and the other 2 didn't obey her)
Also we haven't seen May in like 10 years i bet she is even stronger by now. She should be considering that between AG and DP she evolved a bunch of pokemons.

There is far more love for DP to the point of becoming repulsively overrated, than its case with dislike if we go by polls and praise Sinnoh gets seeming to be fan favorite series on this site.

So indeed i have no idea from where you even get such presumptions.
Just because everyone didn't liked DP or thought it was "best series ever" doesnt mean how series are underrated.

If you want example of underrated that would be called Johto and Unova series.
This forum is so biased towards DP that they don't even admit it because they think everyone else loves that saga so they think they are not being biased they are just saying the universal truth. At least i admit that i am completely biased towards XY.

However, i can assure you that in other forums, like brazilian forums for example, people do not like DP all that much.
I do like DP though.
 
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pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
I agree with you in almost everything else you mentioned above but not this. You see Iris had 2 strong pokemon. 1 of them only now started gaining trust on her battling skills. The other does trust her now but she rarely uses him or trains him. Emolga wasn't weak, but she wasn't impressive either, she was really impulsive, didn't like battling thay much and she still doesn't respect her trainer sometimes. Kibago is just a baby and his only source of offensive power is a unreliable move. She doesn't usually uses strategy, like Clemont does, nor she has the creativity and quick thinking that trainers like Ash and May has. She has a tough personality and doesn't give up easily but that isn't enough to make her the strongest companion.
Cilan is the weakest of the BW crew, he is usually the first one to lose. If he can't beat Iris than he is certainly not the strongest companion.
They did battle a lot due to the nature of BW (a really fast paced, full of action series) but most of those battles were against not so great trainers and wild pokemon.

Point of above post wasnt to estimate how strong Iris pokemon are or reliable. But to accentuate on Iris numerically participating in more trainer like battles than May or Dawn had due to being trainer by profession aiming to become dragon master.

This was showed through her long streak of battling and training together with Excadrill long before she even started journey in dragon village. In participating in severl, tournaments or battle events and challenging various trainers like Langley, Cynthia, Drayden, Bianca etc.

So while your point of Emolga being unreliable and Axew relaively frail does stand, their power was never subject of my post. But more so pointing out how due to higher experience in trainer like battles, Iris has edge in being more familiar with strategy, style of battling and generally more raw apprpoach traditional battling contains than coordinators would have.

Just like in contest battles coordinators have more experiience and practice in adapting to different rules and format such type of clashes pull with themselves than regular trainers would have.

May is somewhere in between being good both in contests and traditional batling due to Ash teachings, hence why i put her among top 3 of Ash companions in terms of adaptability and skills. She is likely above Iris like i mentioned before.

As for Cilan, same like i said regarding Iris. I talked about his experience he as gym leader and regular trainer received fairly frequently when it comes to regular battles, rather than his own innovation, intelligence and capability as battler.

Although im not sure if i would consider Cilan weak. If anything his battle recird was faurly impressive being strongest out of his brothers. He faced and defeated several trainers like Burgundy, prof. Juniper and Bianca, Trip, Ricard Noveau, that woman with Abomasnow trying to take over gym and other side characters. Scoring respectable results with his best rank happening in Junior Cup.

Cilan was weaker than Iris or Ash, but i still think he was fairly decent.

Not to mention to be fair there doesnt exist very reliable way to estimate how tough competition Ash and co faced in Best Wishes was, due to insufficient amount of information and background about several adversaries or random people they met and battled against.

We can only guess based on whether foe battle styles, techniques and combination of attacks left good impression on us as viewers or not. But thats rather subjective depending from person to person.
 
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Nodame

Misty <3
Mmm hello? Where is Misty? She's a gym leader, and she's worthy of the title, considering she overcame her childhood fear of Gyarados, and now has one. She's not the "laid-back" type and would rather take risks. Also, she has a strong willed personality, unlike some other girls. It just the writers were unsure of how to write females back then, which held them back from developing Misty even better.

In terms of who's "strongest" well.. This is something I can't judge considering some of them are either average being more focused on making attacks look pretty than defeating opponent through raw power or some didn't get much screen time.
 
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p96822

Evolve me please
The strongest Pokemon Companion is really hard to pinpoint. Really let's look at all the Pokémon that these trainers have an just judge them by how they were showcased in the anime.

Misty I could say is the middle of the road when it comes to strength. Even though she is a gym leader I don't find her that impressive during her run as a main character. Some of our Pokémon did not give the proper look on of strength. Some Pokémon like Goldeen and Horsed were not able to battle on land not giving any time to show how powerful they were as Pokémon. Starmie got the worst of it when it was used less then it evolve form and gave defeated much easier to a point where Misty sends it away forever. Staryu, Politoad and Corsola are the only Pokémon that showcase in any battle potential. Even though it wasn't that much. Politoad was a hard worker when it was a Poliwhirl shown to be a very strong battler, but when he evolved his hard working nature turned into more playfulness making him seem weaker then he was before evolving. Cosola came into late in the series to do anything to make Misty look strong it was the only Pokémon that she caught during her whole of adventure through Jotho.

In conclusion I'm not going said Misty is weak nor strong. She is in the middle of the road and I think other character are much stronger then her like May, Dawn and even Iris and Clian a bit. If her Pokemon were showcased a bit better in Johto then I would change my mind about Misty, but it way to late for that
 

UltimateNinja

Praying for the holy relics
Strenght wise:

May>>>>>>>>>>>>Dawn/Iris>Brock/Clemont>Cilan>Misty/Serena>Tracey

Development wise:

Dawn>Serena>May>Clemont>Cilan>>>>>>>>>>Iris/Misty>Brock>Tracey
 

Afrodisiac

break up w yo gf, im bored
Now you're telling jokes again. May's competition in Hoenn were a grown man who dressed like a 10 year old girl and an obnoxious pretty boy. They weren't quality trainers.

At least they were relevant and memorable. I can't say the same for such mediocre rivals as Zoey, Nando and tuxedo boy (ugh). And IMO Solidad was just as strong if not stronger than Zoey anyway so... keep it cute sis.
 

Pikachu979

Sinnoh Champion
Ambipom is not "in training". Ambipom has a new goal now. It was never mentioned that it would be training for contests.
Same thing applies to Ash's squirtle it left him to focus on being part of the squirtle squad but it was never released and was called back for some battles so ambipom has the potential to do the same thing
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
To p96822: I appreciate your input and some of things you were disappointed about Misty pokemon team has legitimate ground behind itself.

But there are still some things i would like to address which werent Misty fault or reflection of her competence as battler.

First does it really matter how many of Misty pokemon evoled or how often did we seen them battling on screen?

Because worth of someone as trainer shouldnt be valued by quantity, but quality. And Misty was proactively portrayed in most of her battles, rescue missions or story arcs where she took charge as intelligent, resourceful, strong and creative pokemon trainer. With several older trainers and authorities such as gym leaders and league inspectors acknowledging her enthusiasm, fiery determination and pragmatic approach toward use of pokemon.

You say how Horsea and Starmie were barely seen not having chance to show their full potential. But if thats the case and we didnt seen what they are capable of doing we cant use them as evidence to assess Misty real potential as trainer. Can we?

Because its assumption based on absence of any real evidence.

Speaking of Misty actiove pokemon, their use actually says alot on how much they were trained and adept to battling.

Staryu was Misty most used pokemon and was consistently portrayed as very dexterious, robust and poignant.
Being capable of withstanding several powerful attacks not losing rhytm or having attacks enough potent to defeat opposing pokemon with one blow as examples of Tentacruel, Mantine or Ash Chikorita which would be fainted from single water gun didnt digged heels in grouns at last second showed. Winning more out of element of surprise than type advantage in that match.

Misty Politoed maybe did became more cheerful and laidback after evolution, but that hardly takes away from his strength of pokemon suddenly being "weaker" than prevous form honestly.

Politoed power didnt suddenly diminished after evolving, his personality simply evolved just like its body becoming more vivid. Especially when in fully evolved form Politoed didnt batled enough to reveal all of his moveset and special abilities due to evolution happening on dusk stage of Misty presence in anime as main character.

But from what was showed defeating Rocket pokemon or brother trio Hitmonchan. Accompanied with his moveset seming more diverse compared to Poliwhirl who mostly relied on physical force. Such as psychic techniques in form of swagger which acts as risk vs reward move. Delivering confusion and increasing opponent pokemon attack opening potential to hurt itself more in such stage.

Kinda doesnt work in favor of theory of Politoed suddenly being weaker than Poliwhirl.

Corsola didnt came that late to prevent her from showing what its truly capable of doing in battle. We are talking about pokemon which was able to defeat likes of Seaking, Harrison Quilfish and Trinity Gyarados in Whirl Cup. Defeated Sakura Espeon and Gergio Delcatty, Coastline gym leader Mantine and Georgio Dellcatty.

Having great defensive moves such as mirror coat and recover, combined with equally great offense through spike cannon and bubblebeam.
So realy Corsola still had enough time to reveal its qualities and Misty quality as trainer managing to train it in formidable opponent through short time period.

Not to mention your omitting fact that Misty was in Hoenn from everything showed far stronger than she was in Johto(just like in Johto she was much better than in Kanto). With restore of reputation of Cerulean gym proving her value to pokemon agents, putting Gyarados under control becoming her powerhouse expanding on his moves by teaching him flamethriower which left Ash surprised. Corsola seeming more resistant and faster as battle against Delcatty showed and Luvdisc contrary to its low reputation in games successfuly dealing with pokemon like Sableye and Mightiena.

All serving as pretty reliable guideline how Misty became tougher and more competitive than ever before.

Its also overlooked future potential regarding Misty and her career as traner. It passed 10 years of Misty absence from pokemon anime not knowing what happened to her and how much she changed. Several of her pokemon like Horsea, Goldeen, Azurill, even Psyduck might have evolved in big battle tanks. Such as Kingdra, Seaking, Golduck or Azumarill.

She could have caught all kind of new water types adding more variety to her team.

All that battling at gym,challengers she faced, training, possible solo travels with purpose of advancing water master goal entering tournaments, meeting stronger trainers learning about more innovative ways of battling and discovering new species possiby having encounter with legendary water type(like she always dreamed) helping her to better understand how to use them to full potential might have amounted to Misty skills becoming on much higher level since last time we saw her becoming as person more collected, calculated and wise.

With her pokemon team, path she follows and big positions she shoots toward giving her more room for improvement than its case with most other replaced traveling companions.

Not seeming in my opinion any less good at planning ahead, coming up with smart strategies and posessing big competitive spirit than May, Dawn, Iris, Cilan , Clemont and all others fans consider to be "better" trainers. Based on inconsistent comparisons and misconceptions as far as im concerned.

Being most tough and assertive in her demeanour out of all travel companions in reality.
 
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p96822

Evolve me please
I consider that Misty is not weak nor strong when she left the show she didn't leave any impressing that she was stronger then Ash or even Brock for that matter. Even when we see her after with the Pokemon Gyardos it didn't really had any battle at all to make me think that it was strong nor weak. Because of the species we have to say that Gyrados is a strong Pokemon without seeing having a proper Pokemon battle at all. I feel like May, Dawn and even Iris at some extant felt stronger after they left. To a point were May left with her starter evolving into it final form and facing Ash's strongest Pokemon at that point.
 

pokemon fan 132

Well-Known Member
To p96822:

Thats not really true though. Even though Brock rarely battled in Original series, we can see in third movie against Molly mirage pokemon how Misty pokemon felt more resiliant, faster and stronger than Brock pokemon. Staryu was completely equal to mirage pokemon Mantine showing some really great moves there and clever tactical approach from Misty side in using rapid spin in opposing direction to neutralize whirlpool and bubblebeam pokemon was trapped in .

In comparison Brock lost easily to Molly with none of his pokemon being able to be on pair with mirage ones. With al three Zubat, Vulpix and Onix losing very quickly.

If we are going to compare this two, Misty showed more impressive strategy than Brock did honestly whose skills started to get rusty ever since he became fully commited to breeding and taking care of pokemon.
Brock was strong, but im not sure if would consider him beter than Misty from what was showed.

Speaking of Ash Misty never really seemed much behind him during her travels to Kanto, Orange Islands and Johto with battles against them always being hard, tense and won by hairbreadth. That can be noticed in battle for Totodile where Bulbasaur as already skilled veteran was completely overpowered by Poliwhirl(even before evolution Poliwag holded its ground decently blocking Ash pokemon leaf green and vine whip) being on edge of losing firing solar beam in last moment to turn tide around. Cerulean battle was left unfinished with Misty and Ash both taking out one of their pokemon,. Misty defeated Butterfree, while Ash was about to defeat Starmie.

In Whirl Cup Misty defeated Ash and went further in tournament showing better understanding of water pookemon and how to use water field to your advantage than Ash had feeling like shes battling in her own element,.

And this was comnfirmed even more in underwater battle against Dorian where Misty was more adaptable to unexpected situations tham Ash diud. SCoring better resilt in battle than Ash whode Totodile fairly easily lost to Lanturn.

Misty also seemed to posess bigger knowledge about pokemon, type advantage, strategy and practical thinking than Ash had. Having to often emind him of basics or reckless mistakes he did playing role of mentor, coach., Not in same manner like Brock did, but she definitely gave him advices, taught him how to be more humble and levelheaded taking training seriously.

Seeming more experienced when it comes to pokemon.
So i guess our opinions on this matter go in different direction.

Also we saw Misty Gyarados three times in battle. He battled brother trio Tentacruel blocking easily all 3 pokemon atacks with protect and sliced through all three hydropumps with hyperbeam with not much effort. In that same episode it revealed to know Hydropump, powerful whirlpool and tail whip.

In Hoenn Misty used Gyarados in battle against Colonel Hanson Shedinja easily defeating it with Flamethrower she taught her pokemon in meantime, and it was also used against dr. Yung mirage pokemon in 10th anniversary special trying to stop his army.

So i believe there were enough instances to show how Misty Gyarados is powerful pokemon.

p.s. Regarding May batle against Ash in Terracota contest, there is no indication to suggest how Sceptile was Ash strongest pokemon. Especially when Pikachu shortly before that was able to defeat legendary pokemon Regice from head of BF Brandon himself, and Charizard at start of Battle Frontier did same when taking deow legendary Articuno.

Sceptile could be considered as one of Ash stronger pokemon by that point, but i definitely dont think it was strongest one.
Not to mention that battle went more in Ash favor than May to be honest, considering how despite huge type disadvantage grass pokemon have and Ash unfamiliarity with different format contest battling rounds apply was able to parry May and counter successfuly Blaziken attempts. Despite May having everything set to her advantage.
 
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Squirtle_007

Well-Known Member
I will do what anime writers does and put boys with boys and girls with girls battling wise (we rarely see boy/girl matches unless its a gym match)

On the girls side, I would say May is the strongest girl because both of her Hoenn and Kanto contest journeys were just plain brutal, Beautifly Silver Winding Medicham's *** after inmovilizing it with Gust, Skitty resisting Focus Punch after Focus Punch, Combusken Sky Uppercutting Flygon's face, Octillery Octazooking Munchlax's head, Absol Iron Tailing Baby Squirtle against the wall and Combusken Overheating Absol was poetry in motion ... after her, I would say Iris = Misty, then Dawn, and lastly Serena and Bonnie

On the boys side, I will go with Cilan, he got serious in lots of battles and always went for the win, Solarbeaming Burgundy, Slashing Trip, Rock Wrecking Bianca and Juniper and getting toe to toe with Skyla in a Gym Leaders clash, he even had very good battles in [Taboo]Season 2[/Taboo] against the Tag Team Twins and Ice Jessie, after him, I would say Brock, Clemont and then Tracey
 
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Navin

MALDREAD
Honestly, all the gym leaders (Brock Misty, Cilan, Clemont) seem relatively on par. Of those, Clemont is of the highest rank, but the others got some good showings too.

May, Iris, Clemont, Cilan, Misty, Brock, Dawn, Tracey, Serena, Bonnie, and lastly Max is how I would list them if I absolutely had to given them an ordering, but I think a bunch of these companions are on par with each and it depends on individual matchups and plot conveniences.
 

chalkus

Well-Known Member
It was completely relevant because Ash based on some of highly questionable moves he made in Unova series wasnt battling at same level of strength, knowledge and adaptation as we get to dee in Sinnoh and i would dare to say Hoenn/Johto as well. At least i believe he didnt.

So Dawn Quillava being tied to Ash Pikachu in terms of strength doesnt add up much, if taken in account Ash downplay of skill and Pikachu being drained out of full power due to plot fix called Zekrom.

In fact i dont see anything so impressive in Dawn pokemon team or her battle skills that would warrant to be considered as stronger trainer than May, Misty, Cilan or Iris at all.

Nevermind fact that Iris, Cilan and Misty has more battling experience as trainers than May/Dawn have due to participating more in trainer battles than its case with coordinators.

If I remember correctly, no female companion other than Iris had beaten Ash in a serious one on one battle, so Dawn pushing Ash against the wall like she did was significant. Besides, had Cynthia not interjected to end the match prematurely, there is a good chance that Dawn would have won as it seemed to me that she was gaining the advantage.

Unless you have proof to back up such claims your just blind guessing.

Especially when Ash proved time after time how he has ability of coming up with unorthodox, experimental strategies allowing him to manage himself in unknown elements. As consistently portrayed with all kind of competitions such as pokeringer, elemental tournaments focuing on one specific type, pokemon races, pokeathlon, sumo tournaments etc.

Contests being included. In fact only in few type of events hehad trouble to adapt appropriately, such as underwater battles as seein in scoring worse result than Misty when battling Dorian, fishing type of contests being too impatient , or specific sport based tournaments like ping pong.

Considering how for all intentsd and purposes May actually won more than she lost contests and many of them were won through downright knocking diwn opposing side through oure force.

Chances are that Dawn who in my opinion isnt any better as coordinator than May wouldnt crush Ash or have easy time either.
If May was as good as you say she is, why didn't she beat Ash, then? If she is this big time, powerful coordinator, she should have owned Ash. Instead, she nearly got owned herself. She even had type advantage and she still couldn't win. I think that says a lot more than you want to admit.

As far as Dawn being inferior to May goes, you need to stop dreaming. Dawn in one Grand Festival got further than May did in two. And it took a powerhouse who has her number in Zoey to beat her. Don't forget that Dawn owned May in the Wallace Cup as well, proving her superiority further.


And how many times did we saw type advantage working in trainer or gym leader favor causing Ash to lose? You cannot talk in absolutes here dividing things in black and white thinking.

Ash lose against Iris wasnt result of "Iris superior battle abilities", but joint of all kind of factors.

Such as element of surprise, luck, type devantage, exhaustion of pokemon in battle, type of terrain, choice of attacks, skill and fact of Pikachu being downgraded in its strength not battling at full capacity.

Just because Iris defeated Ash in situation A, does not mean how exact same scenario would happen in B or C situation being type of propositional fallacy.

There were no extenuating factors in the battle Ash had with Iris. It was a one on one battle to the finish and Iris hammered him. Case closed. You need to accept that move on. You should also be impressed with how Iris beat Ash cleanly in the final of a major tournament, something no other travel companion before her could do.


Nonetheless Whirl Cup was anything but provincial like insignificant tournament as your trying to make it be. Attempt of trying to downplay strength of competition to discredit someone achievements and success as trainer doesnt make your position any stronger.

For start all kind of trainers from all kind of regions come and participate in this competition. To measure up strength, intelligence and compatibility with your pokemon.

It has lore based around itself about ancient times, water masters who learned how to use water specie to full potential in past, mystical items such as water pendant, sea sapphire etc being able to gather energy of all water pokemon at one place.

Winner gets prestigue title Alpha Omega of water pokemon serving as spring board in bringing you closer toward type master title and item which can increase power of water pokemon by multiple times.

Only best 64 can enter 6 rounds of battling with weak competition being eliminated through preliminaries with Misty coming top 8 or top 4 based on what kind of ranking system was applied there).

And is held only once every 3 years having according to story long and well known tradition behind itself as evidenced through prof. Elm and sea priest Maya talks.

So if anything Whirl Cup was highly prestigious and known worldwide that in some aspects it held bigger value than Grand Festivals themselves and definitely much bigger importance than Don George battle clubs.

So theory of this being "low class event" goes down the drain.

The Whirl Cup was created just to give Misty something to do in a season she did almost nothing. Nothing that happened in it had any effect on anything before it or after. Hence, it was irrelevant.

There is far more love for DP to the point of becoming repulsively overrated, than its case with dislike if we go by polls and praise Sinnoh gets seeming to be fan favorite series on this site.

So indeed i have no idea from where you even get such presumptions.
Just because everyone didn't liked DP or thought it was "best series ever" doesnt mean how series are underrated.

If you want example of underrated that would be called Johto and Unova series.

I'm talking from my experience. I've seen plenty of DP hate on here. Many times I have been neg-repped for making any positive comments about Dawn. The only time I ever got more was for being supportive of Iris. You might not see it since you're not a DP fan but being one myself, I see it all the time. That's why I was surprised Dawn was ahead in the poll. Doesn't usually happen.

On a side note, it's a good thing that rep system is done with.
 

Lorde

Let's go to the beach, each.
May is the strongest given her team and Contest wins imo, then Dawn. I put Iris somewhere in the middle.
 

UltimateNinja

Praying for the holy relics
If I remember correctly, no female companion other than Iris had beaten Ash in a serious one on one battle,

If May was as good as you say she is, why didn't she beat Ash, then? If she is this big time, powerful coordinator, she should have owned Ash.

May -> Coordinator, Ash -> Trainer

So you're expecting May to win against a trainer, who competed in 3 different leagues by the end of AG and won the BF?

Gosh she is focusing on contest and not on battling alone like Ash. Iris beating BW Ash was also no wonder.

And Misty won against Ash at the semi finals of the Whirl Cup.
 
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