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Subway Doubles RMT

Discussion in '5th Gen In-Game RMT' started by Pidj, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    Hey,

    I've just lost on my 83rd battle with the following team to a minimise Blissey so having lost it I thought I'd post it here!

    EDIT: Changed the back members and got a120 Streak

    The team was in-part inspired by the Magikrap streak in the Subway Ranking Hall thread. I liked the Yanmega lead. So...

    Leads:

    [​IMG]

    Yanmega @Life Orb
    Speed Boost
    Modest
    EV's: 40HP/252Sp.A/4Sp.D/212Spe
    - Detect
    - Bug Buzz
    - Air Slash
    - Hidden Power Ice [70]

    So, this is slightly modified because I didn't see the value in running full speed. Most match-ups I protect on turn 1 and I don't outspeed a lot more by running full speed. In fact after 1 boost I outrun all but 11 pokes in the Subway. Finally with Life Orb+Modest+STAB Bug Buzz and Air Slash do hit very hard often OHKO'ing more than I'd expect to.


    [​IMG]

    Terrakion @Focus Sash
    Justified
    Jolly
    EV's: 4HP/252Atk/252Spe
    - Close Combat
    - Rock Slide
    - Earthquake
    - Protect

    Lead 2. I thought Terrakion would complement Yanmega... and after playing with them I think it does. Running Sacred Sword would have got me past the Blissey I lost to but I don't know if it's worth the sacrificing Protect or Close Combat for it. Protect was very useful and I think I'd really miss the drop in power. I tried other items here including Muscle Band and White Herb to account for CC drops or an opening Intimidate from a foe but overall Focus Sash worked the best. Also, Rock Slide + Air Slash gave me quite a good (and unexpected) flinch rate, which helped out from time to time. Finally, the rest of the team is either Flying type or has Levitate which I liked having because I can use Earthquake freely if I want to.


    Back Line:
    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @Wide Lens
    Levitate
    Modest
    EV's: 252HP/248Sp.A/4Sp.D/4Spe
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Grass [70]
    - Protect

    I felt that Rotom-W had good synergy with the front line (Aside from the shared grass weakness with Terrakion but Yanmega should have grass types covered!) and it performs well. I originally started off with a Timid Rotom-W EV'd in speed and sp. attack running thunder wave as it had no useful hidden power. It got walled by Water/Ground types a lot and I wanted more bulk so I RNG'd the above. Wide Lens used because I hate having less than 100% accuracy and already have two other moves won my leads that might not hit! No real complaints for Rotom-W - bulky and powerful with good resists.


    [​IMG]

    Hydreigon @Wise Glasses
    Levitate
    Timid
    EV's: 4HP/252Sp.A/252Spe
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Dark Pulse
    - Flamethrower
    - Protect

    I really didn't know what to put here but I knew I wanted a fire move and something to handle ghost types that I couldn't easily deal with the rest of the team. I thought of Chandelure but I didn't like the idea of hitting it with an earthquake from Terrakion, nor adding more rock and water type weaknesses. The immunity from fighting types would have been nice, but anyway I found a Hydreigon in my PC and thought it fitted well. It's OK. I've been tempted to try other items to hit harder because that's a notable issue. I'm just not sure I want to be choice'd though. Hydreigon is without a doubt the most awkward fit with the rest of the team but it does have some very handy resistances due to it's dragon typing. I've also considered a Latios here which removes the fighting weakness but I think I'd have issues with the likes of Dusknoir, Cofagrigus and Spiritomb if I used Latios.

    New Back Line:

    [​IMG]

    Latios @Wise Glasses
    Levitate
    Timid
    EV's: 4HP/252Sp.A/252Spe
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt
    - HP Fire [70]


    [​IMG]

    Ferrothorn @Leftovers
    Iron Barbs
    Sassy
    EV's: 252HP/4Atk/252Sp.D
    (IV's: 12/31/31/x/31/11)
    - Curse
    - Leech Seed
    - Gyro Ball
    - Power Whip


    The Latios was recommended by Aura Sensai and did semm like a worthwhile addition. The extra fighting resist was really good. Protect would have been good somewhere and I was a little underwhelmed with HP Fire so that could be the move to give up.

    Ferrothorn was one of my first IV breeds (pre-RNG days for me) and I knew abotu EV's then but not really about optimising them so that's why the EV's may look a little weird. I mainly used it for a steel type, physical attacker and grass type moves. It also turned out to be a useful counter to trick room teams, which could be an issue for the rest of the team. Overall it was 'meh'.

    Observations:
    - The leads are great fun and it's usually quite easy to predict who is going to be targetted so knowing when to protect is quite easy.
    - They both hit quite hard and fast which in turn makes battles fast and I like that.
    - Overall the team has good defensive synergy which again helps with knowing when to protect on all of them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  2. Aura Sensei™

    Aura Sensei™ User Title

    Interesting Team.

    Have you considered putting Swords Dance + Substitute on Terrakion? I think that it would greatly help against hax and such, and it also pairs nicely with Salac Berry.

    You may want to remove the SpD EV's and put them into Spe so you can outspeed Pokemon in the same Speed Tier running 4 Spe.

    This is mainly an observation, but Ice Types can give you some trouble if Rotom-W is down and they get some Hax on Terrakion.

    Impressive Streak, however. Hope this helps.
     
  3. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the rate.

    I've not really considered that Terrakion. I've always thought it would be much tougher to set-up in doubles. I might look in to it though if I can think of a way to safely do it. A SD boost would allow me to use sacred sword too, which would have got me past that awful Blissey.

    For the change in speed and special defence ev's I assume you're talking about Rotom? Due to the IV's required for running HP grass adding an extra 4 EV's to speed or special attack makes no difference to it's stats so I threw it on special defence to get the extra point there.

    You're right about ice types. I've lost a couple of lesser streaks to either freeze hax on rotom-w or a quick claw glaceon (got stopped at 10 in an earlier streak :( ). Ice beam is a lot easier to deal with than blizzard though. Ice beams are normally aimed at yanmega or hydreigon so I can normally use terrakion to close combat or rock slide ice types whilst I protect with whoever else is on the field. Coming up against a blizzard jynx in trick room wasn't fun though!

    Any thoughts on replacements or changes to Hydreigon? I've considered a choice scarf but I'm not sure if I'll like being locked in to a move. As well as Latios I've also considered steel gem bulky Scizor to give me another physical hitter. Defensively it should have great synergy but I think I'd struggle against the ghosts I've already mentioned and I also thing the likes of ferrothorn, escavalier and opposing scizor would give me a bit of a headache
     
  4. Aura Sensei™

    Aura Sensei™ User Title

    Woops, I didn't take into account IV's.

    If you can get ahold of ScarfMoxieMence it works wonders if Outrage is not aimed at a Steel Type. But due to the aforementioned Threats, Blaziken or Infernape could also fit in. Blaziken with Speed Boost + SD is a very solid choice, as is Iron Fist Infernape.

    Blaziken @ Lum Berry
    Adamant
    Speed Boost
    4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    » Swords Dance / Protect
    » Hi Jump Kick
    » Fire Punch / Flare Blitz
    » Protect / Substitute / Shadow Claw

    The problem with Blaziken is that you'll be awful weak to the Lati@s, so Shadow Claw can deal with 'em after SD. Unfortunately Blaziken has 4 move syndrom.

    Infernape @ Life Orb
    Jolly
    Iron Fist
    4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    » Fire Punch
    » Mach Punch / Fake Out
    » Close Combat
    » Thunderpunch / Stone Edge

    Both work pretty similiar and could fit your needs. Last but not least, CM Latias can OHKO Sczior, Ferrothorn and co., meanwhile dealing with siblings.

    Latias @ Leftovers
    Timid
    Levitate
    252 Hp / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    » Calm Mind
    » Substitute / Recover
    » Hidden Power [Fire]
    » Dragon Pulse
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  5. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the extra feedback. I've been considering an Infernape but not sure about it. But I like the idea of Latias. I think I could maybe make a support poke out of it. CM is definitely an option but again it's a set up in doubles. But maybe something like Helping Hand? and Psyshock would be a handy extra move for things like Blissey. Hmmm need a think...

    Any other comments are very welcome

    EDIT: Forgot to say, thanks for the suggestions of Infernape and Blaziken. Unfortunately I don't have access to either of those two with those abilities. A Moxie-mence could be doable though. It is a 4x ice weakness though and an extra rock weakness
     
  6. Aura Sensei™

    Aura Sensei™ User Title

    Latias does not require CM, it could also use an Offensive set, but for that Latios arguably does it's job better.

    Latios @ Life Orb
    Timid
    Levitate
    4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    » Hidden Power [Fire]
    » Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse
    » Protect / Recover
    » Psyshock / Surf

    Latias still performs this job nicely due to better Bulk, so using either is a double edged sword, as one is more Offensive than the other, meanwhile the other is more Defensive.

    Honestly, just pick what you feel is best for the Team, or whichever one works the best.
     
  7. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    That's the Latios I'm thinking of and I have it ready to go! Except I can't use Life Orb because Yanmega already has it. Darn item clause in the subway!!

    I've not played with the team since the OP so haven't decided what to do with it yet. Might get to do some testing over the weekend

    EDIT: And how is your Cresselia/Ferrothorn/Salamence team working out?
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2013
  8. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    I'm shamelessly bumping my thread due to temporary team changes in this post. So I've chosen Latios over hydreigon for now:

    It's currently running:
    Wise glasses, timid, evs in speed and sp.a
    - dragon pulse
    - psychic
    - hp fire 70
    - thunderbolt

    I've also changed rotom to:

    Ferrothorn @leftovers
    Sassy
    Can't remember exact ev's but its in hp, def and sp.d. (Made in ages ago before I learnt to RNG)
    - curse
    - leech seed
    - power whip
    - gyro ball

    So far with the changes I'm at 77 wins and still going but to be honest the leads are still doing most of the work.

    So far in the streak I've lucked out a fair bit. Most OHKO moves have missed (only one has hit). And... Ferrothorn survived an overheat from a Magmortar in a 1v1 which was at -2 or -4. Either way I thought it was all over but it pulled through!

    I was unsure of ferrothorn. I really like it in singles but so far I'm unsure for doubles. Its definitely a great counter for trick room teams and it really shone against a sand team in battle 70. Proof of it doing a great job is here: 52-66455-15877

    I'd like protect on both ferrothorn and latios but wouldn't know what to drop on either of them. Curse seems most redundant on 'thorn but it has come in useful when required.
     
  9. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    I'm shamelessly bumping my thread due to temporary team changes in this post. So I've chosen Latios over hydreigon for now:

    It's currently running:
    Wise glasses, timid, evs in speed and sp.a
    - dragon pulse
    - psychic
    - hp fire 70
    - thunderbolt

    I've also changed rotom to:

    Ferrothorn @leftovers
    Sassy
    Can't remember exact ev's but its in hp, def and sp.d. (Made in ages ago before I learnt to RNG)
    - curse
    - leech seed
    - power whip
    - gyro ball

    So far with the changes I'm at 77 wins and still going but to be honest the leads are still doing most of the work.

    So far in the streak I've lucked out a fair bit. Most OHKO moves have missed (only one has hit). And... Ferrothorn survived an overheat from a Magmortar in a 1v1 which was at -2 or -4. Either way I thought it was all over but it pulled through!

    I was unsure of ferrothorn. I really like it in singles but so far I'm unsure for doubles. Its definitely a great counter for trick room teams and it really shone against a sand team in battle 70. Proof of it doing a great job is here: 52-66455-15877

    I'd like protect on both ferrothorn and latios but wouldn't know what to drop on either of them. Curse seems most redundant on 'thorn but it has come in useful when required.

    EDIT: I continued playing with this team and it crashed through my original streak ending after 120 wins. (Its a bit cheap beating magikraps record by 1)

    Battle video of loss: 88-74442-01296

    I've not watched this back yet but I think I misplayed a couple of times. For example I know I should have dealt with the electrode sooner.

    I'm very pleased and this was unexpected. I will probably rest from this team for a short while now.

    Will update the OP later on
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2013
  10. Aura Sensei™

    Aura Sensei™ User Title

    Congrats on the new Streak! :]

    Latios seems to be fine, and as you said Protect can be used instead of Hidden Power [Fire] if you aren't using it much. Psyshock may be better than Psychic, as it hits Blissey harder, and other Special Walls, however both work.

    As you've said, Protect may be in order for Ferrothorn, however I'd just try it out first, as Ferrothorn won't be hitting as hard if it lacks Curse.
     

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