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Suicide lead anticrit PWT/Super Sub team

Discussion in '5th Gen In-Game RMT' started by Bigheaded, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. Bigheaded

    Bigheaded King of the Wooper

    Debuff PWT/Super Sub team

    Post 1: Introduction and basics
    Post 3: Threats

    Can't change the title which is a bit of a shame. As it's a debuff team now rather than just memento'ing my lead which it was previously.

    Basically it's aim is to set up on as many pokemon as possible, by making it so they cannot hit me and are slow (flash/twave) so that my drapion can setup and rampage through the enemy team.

    Current team 25/2/2013:

    Lead: Uxie. Brightpowder
    EV's 255 speed, 255 hp (not worried about 4 wasted)
    Nature: whatever it comes with.
    psychicsunny day

    yet to be ohko'd so the brightpowder is actually working better than focus. Maybe i need to face a gengar with shadow ball and a crit to show me otherwise.
    Aim is simple Twave anything which isn't immune to it (volt absorb/ground) then flash away. If it is immune to twave, immediately just flash.
    Added in sunny day as some form of counter to annoyance weather producers, mainly abomasnow's.

    Attack reducer: Latias. Leftovers
    EV's 255 hp, 255 defense
    Nature: random
    Calm Mind
    Dragon pulse
    Recover (might change to twave/flash, a 2nd twave would be actually strangely helpful)

    As it is, she is my charm abuser which is especially good at counteracting dragon dance. She's also used as a secondary sweeper, as drapion cannot kill some poke's. A bit weak to crits and status at this, but has worked when i needed her.

    Sweeper: Drapion. Black Sludge
    EV's: 252 hp, 248 special defense, 10 defense
    IV's: 31|21|30|25|30|24
    Nature: Careful (+SpD, -SpA)
    Ability: Battlearmor
    Struggle bug

    The star of the team. This thing is impressively tanky and without having to worry about critical hits, has setup on all except 2 special attackers (one had hax, other i lost to lol) and all sorts of other things.

    For those unaware of how debuff teams work, note that the computer will almost never switch. This means that making the opponents pokemon paralyzed with -6 attack/special attack/accuracy will still keep attacking/running whatever it thinks is best for that poke.
    So the aim is to use twave, then flash 6 times, then use drapion to setup 21 acupressures (+6 evasion, attack, defense, special attack, special defense and accuracy) and a substitute (if the opposing pokemon has status such as thunder wave, to set up a sub early). Then finish all 3 pokemon in quick succession with crunch.
    I have charm if they are particularly powerful at attacking and struggle bug to lower special attack.

    Looking currently for comments on:
    New pokemon to try instead of uxie/latias.
    Any additional ideas on current pokemon (drapion has access to all sorts of interesting other moves including flash)

    Examples of suggested pokemon:
    Also considering:
    Cresselia with a good nature and good IV's.

    This team on 65th fight lost to:
    806 | Abomasnow | Quiet | Occa Berry | Blizzard | Focus Blast | Protect | Ice Shard | HP/SpA
    787 | Golem | Brave | Iron Ball | Rock Slide | Earthquake | Explosion | Fling | Atk/SpD (sturdy)
    802 | Toxicroak | Adamant | Wide Lens | Cross Chop | Sucker Punch | Gunk Shot | Taunt | Atk/Spd

    So aboma comes out adding hail, and using blizzard with 100% accuracy. I manage a twave and 1 flash before uxie is taken out (maybe i should have memento'd?), send out drapion whom struggle bugs it down to -4 but at ~40 hp. Switched to latias, use charm a few times in case it had something else annoying (and it did sort of, ice shard) and i decided to setup latias.
    Could have tried using less struggle bugs on it and tried to setup drapion on it, but hail cancelling regen is a serious nuisance.
    Anyway as it was i have latias with basically full hp and at +6 and drapion with ~40 as backup. Come against the golem, which survives dragon pulse with sturdy and uses fling, knocking out 160 hp from being super effective. "possibly" should have used recover, that also would have saved my butt in this instance.
    As it is, it dies to hail. Toxicroak is sent out. Latias around 15 hp remaining.
    It moves first and uses cross chop to ko latias then again for drapion.

    Was my best streak, looking into cresselia over uxie/latias. Although cresselia doesn't really work instead of latias. Has no memento for replacing uxie. Does have more bulk for more flashes though and i can catch a "good" cresselia as it's just a random uxie. Ability swap could be handy against the occasional clear body user (regice and metagross are the main ones) as giving it levitate changes nothing to me.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  2. chap196

    chap196 Well-Known Member

    If you want to sweep with Crustle, then this set it the best for it
    Item White Herb
    Nature Jolly/Adamant
    Ability Sturdy
    EVs 252 Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP
    Move Set
    Shell Smash
    Rock Slide/Stone Edge
    Shell Smash gain Attack, Special Attack and Speed by 2 stages which give a lot of chance to sweep your opponent Pokemon. It will give a great combo with White Herb, so it will not lose Defense and Special Defense after 1 Shell Smash (although if you use it again, it will lower your Defense and Special Defense since White Herb will disappear after you use it). Sturdy are a lot better than Shell Armor since Shell Armor only protects it from critical hit, but Sturdy can give Crustle at least 1 Shell Smash (except if you get status condition).
    X-Scissor is the only good STAB move Crustle can use.
    Rock Slide if you want more accuracy or Stone Edge if you want power.
    Earthquake gives a lot of coverages.
  3. Bigheaded

    Bigheaded King of the Wooper

    Old post on a previous idea i've decided not to continue with. Thanks for the reply.

    Adding threat/annoyance pokemon list:
    632 | Nidoqueen | Modest | Black Sludge | Sludge Bomb | Earth Power | Flamethrower | Ice Beam | HP/SpA
    Not much of a surprise, a strong special attack which makes setting up with drapion difficult. When i faced it, it Hax'd uxie to death with poison followed by crit, managed to set up 1 flash before dying as it outsped my uxie. Drapion was sent out and struggle bug'd it 3-4 times, ended up on ~30 hp left. Changed to latias, setup 4 calm minds and decided to try my luck at that and dragon pulsed to victory, the other 2 died ohko.
    If it had a bit more luck and froze my latias with an ice beam or a few ice beam crits, i could have lost on this one pokemon alone. The other 2 after were weak also, if they had been able to survive a +4 dragon pulse, i could have been in serious trouble
    PWT Lucario
    So ok, just went to PWT for some lolz and got rolled by something like swords dance, bone rush, shadow claw lucario. So i twave and get it to -2 accuracy or so whilst it swords danced twice and ko's Uxie with shadow claw. I send out latias to charm, it ko's latias with a critical hit. Send out drapion and set up a sub, it uses swords dance (+4), i use acupressure, it uses swords dance (+6). So at this stage i just basically got rolled by decent accuracy +6 bone rush with 4-5 hits each time it did hit. This was the first round o_O
    631 | Abomasnow | Quiet | Focus Sash | Blizzard | Wood Hammer | Focus Blast | Ice Shard | HP/SpA
    806 | Abomasnow | Quiet | Occa Berry | Blizzard | Focus Blast | Protect | Ice Shard | HP/SpA
    What i lost to, 100% accuracy blizzard in a weather condition i can't regen in. Added sunny day to counter this for the time being.
    447 | Ferrothorn | Careful | Chesto Berry | Rest | Payback | Gyro Ball | Curse | HP/SpD
    Basically it can't do anything against latias taking it down to -6 attack, it will refuse to use curse after it's +6 defense, so if i wanted i can set up drapion on it, but the problem is then i need to pray for a crit, or wait until it runs out of PP, neither of which are particularly good. Currently setting up latias on it, whom can keep it at -6 and survive anything it throws at her pretty easy then +6/6 calm mind and dragon pulse it to death, hopefully KO'ing the 2 next poke's also.

    Annoyance moves:
    Torment: works through Sub, means i cannot simply crunch everything to death. Could be used to end my stread in conjunction with a roar/haze.
    Dragon Dance: As it boosts speed, eventually it will outspeed whatever i have without me buffing even after it's twave'd. Currently i twave to begin with and then flash until it reaches 2/2. Switch to latias and -6 attack it. Crits can really hurt though. I've noticed that unless it runs out of moves, it will stop boosting at +6 speed (even if it's -6 attack), which is helpful.
    Swords Dance: Because it lacks the speed, twave and flash usually cover this. Although i am pretty sure an excadrill can cause serious issues as it is immune to twave:
    495 | Excadrill | Adamant | Chople Berry | Dig | Metal Sound | Metal Claw | Swords Dance | Atk/Def This doesn't look so bad though
    None of the others are even an annoyance, as all can be hit by -6 attack.
    To further explain, if i can twave and flash to at least -3, i can let the uxie die whilst setting as many flashes as possible and switch to drapion when it dies. Then, i am able to set up a substitute. A lot of hax is required for them to break through repeated substitutes from not missing/paralyzed for 1 turn, therefore can setup my +6 everything.
    Taunt: Very minor annoyance, likely to miss after being flashed and twaved anyway. Can use struggle bug with drapion to use up the x amount of turns as it does minor damage even at +4 or +6. Yet to be hit with priority/very fast taunting to prevent my twave from going up. that will be an issue should it happen.
    Roar/whirlwind: After twaving (when possible, came across a roar swampert) and flashing it, make sure it can't deal any/much damage by struggle bug/charm, then get latias to setup 3 calm minds, if it roars, try again. Get latias to attempt to sweep at +3, if it seems unlikely for whatever reason get it to charm if needed whatever comes out, hopefully uxie is alive to twave still and get some flashes out, struggle bug with drapion if needed also and set the drapion up.
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2013
  4. Aura Sensei™

    Aura Sensei™ User Title

    I like the idea behind this.

    Dark Moves still do damage to Justified.

    I'd use Light Screen on Uxie to further support, as Cloyster takes the Physical hits, but Drapion can still struggle with certain Special Moves such as Earth Power.

    I don't know a whole to about the strategy, so I'll leave it as is other than that.
  5. Bigheaded

    Bigheaded King of the Wooper

    Thanks for the thumbs up. I'll give it a shot.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  6. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member


    It might be a bit late but I thought I'd give some feedback.

    Taking crits out of the game is a great idea and your strategy looks sound. I think the only thing I can say is that your strategy will take a LONG time per match. But if you have the patience then all is good!

    Latias looks like a good addition to me and I think it looks a better fit than Crustle or Cloyster.

    Latias also counters the Justified pokes I can think of that would cause Drapion possible issues. Of which I think Cobalion will be the most difficult to KO and, because I can't remember the set lists, Terrakion is the bigger threat with earthquake. I've also not done any damage calcs but I think a +6 crunch will do a fair bit of damage to those. Just a thought but a cursing ferrothorn could cause you some problems. You could try packing a fire type move on Latias if steels are proving tricky.

    This is just a suggestion but I'd keep psychic on Uxie. It will be taunt-bait without it. I know you could always switch out and in again but that might be a bit of a pain. Having said that - a bulky lead with memento and taunt could also stop any set-up sweepers starting ahead of you, perhaps Whimsicott? Less bulk but would do a very similar job with prankster, which could be useful. Maybe something like:

    Whimsicott @Focus Sash
    EVs: 252HP/252Def (up to you here but speed won't be essential because of Prankster)
    - Memento
    - Flash
    - Taunt
    - Stun Spore

    Key disadvantages here: 1. stun spore is only 75% accurate, so having thunder wave on Latias might be a good idea. 2. Less bulk than Uxie I believe
    Advantages: 1. Prankster 2. Whimsicott has a great support movepool. Just check the smogon subway records thread for other uses.

    Good luck
  7. Bigheaded

    Bigheaded King of the Wooper

    Hello, any time for comments is good for me! Splitting your post up a bit.

    Yes it is the patience approach. Still, it's not as bad as it could be. Each fight is roughly 37 moves on average.

    I doubt they will be a problem. Seeing they cannot crit, a +1 terrakion with EQ does ~ 1/3 of my hp (as a guess) as i'm still +6 with a solid 130 defense and +6 evasion.
    Curse ferrothorn is only a problem in the fact i cannot setup on it, unless i use snarl instead of bug bite, or pray for a crit, or use latias to kill it (can easily -6 via charm the ferro, stay high hp with recover so crits deal ~45% of my hp) and stack calm mind's to +6. A ferro trying to setup after i've already setup is doomed. I usually let latias setup in the case of it being the first poke sent out.
    I switch out. Strangely enough i am usually able to get off a twave before they decide to taunt me, so hasn't been a problem yet. Most taunt users are generally weak enough that drapion can just setup on them, seeing sub will block the taunt. If not, getting latias to charm it, or struggle bug it, or both will usually do the trick. Remember, i almost never ever want to deal damage to their first poke unless i cannot setup on it.

    I must admit i hadn't thought about a whimsicott at all. I am very interested in taunt thinking about it as some dragon dance users are pretty scary. The problem is the moveslot. Charm can easily go in that slot also. The accuracy on stun spore is just a huge no for me at the moment. paralysis is literally the main thing keeping my streak going. And accuracy/evasion.

    Thanks for the suggestions! I will certainly consider a whimsicott at some stage. Need to lose first :p

    Put the bit about setting up on first in red because most subway high win teams are based on that small glimmer of info.
  8. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    Going back to your point about not wanting to deal damage with your lead, I guess the decision has been made with uxie but if you change your lead you could always breed/soft reset/rng for a nature that will hinder your attacking move if you have one!
  9. Bigheaded

    Bigheaded King of the Wooper

    I don't mind the ability of doing damage with the lead. But unless there is a good reason i cannot setup on the opposing pokemon, i would much rather avoid damaging it. As an example, i would probably get 1-2 calm mind boosts against a cryagonal with haze, then kill it, seeing i wouldn't be able to fully set up on it.
    The point is, not many pokemon have ridiculously huge stats as legendaries such as uxie. I'm about to grab a cresselia, but i'm being VERY picky and waiting for a good one, will probs try RNG'ing it, never used it before but might as well learn now :p
  10. Bigheaded

    Bigheaded King of the Wooper

    sorry for double post. All of it's gone through an overhaul. First post has been updated.

    Could have made a new thread, seemed simpler at the time to just edit though.
  11. Pidj

    Pidj Well-Known Member

    Nice streak for your first attempt. Would I be right in assuming sandstorm teams can be an issue to you because, like hail, you can regen? If so, and if psychic is a dead move still on uxie, you could use sunny day/rain dance. That also applies to the whimsicott I suggested too but you already have 4 move slot syndrome there anyway.
  12. Bigheaded

    Bigheaded King of the Wooper

    with sandstorm i dont have to put up with super effective 100% accuracy attacks against latias, whom can recover in the weather using recover + leftovers.

    Anyway, i used your solution of adding sunny day to uxie. Will do against any more aboma's i come across. Thanks.
    Trying again ^^
    current streak: 4 :p

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