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Sun & Moon Characters Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Sushi
- Start date
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p96822
Evolve me please
What character agency? The sun and Moon group haven’t done anything to improve on their dream or anything
Character agency is more than just goals however, it's the ability to drive and change the plot based on your own unique attributes and quirks. Making a change to how the story progresses that only your character can.
The billions of TR/COTD fillers in previous series didn't do much for the twerps' character agency for example, since most of the time they'd fail at helping with the COTD's usually unrelated problem until TR appeared, and TR are almost always beaten the exact same way by everyone that a four year old could manage. SM on the other hand, while maybe not developed in establishing goals, has at least unique episodic agendas that occasionally put the character's unique abilities to the test.
Check out episodes like the Morelull and Passimian episodes where Ash solves things a very eccentric way instead of 'Pikachu, Thunderbolt!', or more subtle ones like Lillie and Pikachu deducting where Ash's Electrium Z is. Even Mallow's recent episode focused on her improvising in a baking competition with no TR interruptions. It's displays of discernible niches that also develop on personalities. It's still not great for it, but I think it's an improvement over the usual.
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It funny how people called sun and moon a character driven series even though only about two characters at best get any sort of development(or really anything)while the rest might as well be background characters.
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Relatively speaking it is. The previous series were so formula driven we didn't even get that outside very key episodes like Ash's gym battles. Otherwise whenever it looked like the twerps were going to do something unique, TR or a COTD would come to crash the party.
SM still isn't amazing for it but it's at least on the 'It's trying sometimes' level in making the characters stick out instead of chess pieces doing the same boring thing every episode. Even Mallow's got an episode she's actually doing something relevant to her niches. Beating up Team Rocket with two attacks is no longer the height of a character's involvement. Hell Team Rocket themselves have more of an actual agenda this series over just butting into Ash's beeswax and getting their ass kicked every episode.
On another note, for all the worries over Mallow and Lana and Sophocles, I'm hoping WOBBUFFET gets at least one big moment in the limelight. Even AG gave him an episode or two and made him handy more often.
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Leonhart
Imagineer
I suppose that it could be considered as such in the sense that Satoshi's character is more exuberant than ever before, yet I don't think he drives the plot any more than he did in past sagas. Odd/funny circumstances seem to drive SM's storyline more than any single character does.
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
looking forward to seeing if Kiawe gets development in the future, because given the big speech he gave Ash about Z-moves in the second episode, I get the feeling when he finds out TR has a Z-ring he's going to snap.
I think it's the more the fact that said odd/funny circumstances involve the twerps actually breaking formula and doing something based on personality, while most previous series every episode involved a battle or some other competition, and when it didn't some plot device like TR would come in and MAKE it about that.
The majority of Ash's contributions in earlier episodes besides maybe Kanto tended to be battling, and a lot of time barely even that, just basic commands like 'Pikachu Thunderbolt!' while in SM he's being forced WAY more often out of his comfort zone and being forced to do very unique things like act as a host for a Morelull or disguise himself as a Passimian and play Calvinball, and rarely does anything like TR come in and simplify it into just 'Pikachu Thunderbolt!' again.
Leonhart
Imagineer
Kaki's development is lacking sure, although he's not as bad as Maamane on that front. Kaki's weakness as a character from my perspective is his personality, which goes from stoic and mature one second, to quirky the next. I feel like I don't know what to expect from him.
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
it could lead to a bigger moment of development for him than one might think. Let's face it, he got in Ash's face after he got his Z-ring from Tapu Koko, going off about how Z-moves are sacred, and Team Rocket using Z-moves period goes against what he told Ash, cause they might care for their pokemon, but beyond that they still only look out for themselves.
given how axe crazy he can get over the sacredness of Z-moves(Remember the episode when Ash misplaced his Z-crystal), I can only imagine how he'll react when he finds out TR has access to them.
Personally, I'd like to see him confront TR, demand who to know who gave them their Z-ring, and upon finding out it was Nanu, goes to Ula Ula and challenges him to a battle (perhaps even going so far as to bet his Z-ring against Nanu being a Kahuna, although that could be extreme) and probably loses, forcing himself to relook his way of thinking, because unless Giovanni has some serious dirt on Nanu that he could blackmail him into giving TR a Z-ring, he obviously felt they were worthy of having one making Kiawe's way of thinking (basically what he told Ash in episode 2) wrong, and Kiawe would need to come to accept that.
"Team Rocket's lives have ended."
"Yep."
A pumped up Kiawe vs TR battle would be interesting, especially since they haven't faced off a great deal so far.
Plus given their characters it could go either way in terms of 'Worfing' (he's the male companion, they're Team Rocket).
"Yep."
A pumped up Kiawe vs TR battle would be interesting, especially since they haven't faced off a great deal so far.
Plus given their characters it could go either way in terms of 'Worfing' (he's the male companion, they're Team Rocket).
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Almighty Zard
He has returned.
they are a means to the end, Kiawe confronting Nanu and seeing just who's convictions and reasons are right regarding Z-moves through combat is what matters.
mehmeh1
Not thinking twice!
It wasn't blackmail or anything like that, as nanu gave them the z-ring BEFORE knowing they came due to giovanni
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
it still remains that giving people like TR one contradicts Kiawe's speech to Ash back in episode 2, that's why I believe there needs to be a confrontation between Kiawe and Nanu about the matter, to see who is right.
lemoncatpower
Cynical Optimist
I agree, it'd be very interesting. The young naivety of a passionate kid vs the wise knowledge of the experienced.
There isn't a whole lot of cynicism played as a serious plot point in the anime, it would be interesting to see one of the twerps react to such indifferently pragmatic approaches like indiscriminately giving a bad guy a sacred weapon like they would others that earned it.
Almighty Zard
He has returned.
if your saying they shouldn't do anything I disagree.
Kiawe's beliefs are basically challenged by TR having a Z-ring, and after getting in Ash's face and making that big speech in episode 2, something needs to happen.
No, that's what I mean. They usually don't do anything, and things just contrive into a happy idealistic ending after all.
Having it be a part of the plot which is challenged by the protagonists would be a step up.
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