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Sun & Moon Characters Speculation Thread

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RedJirachi

Veteran member
Shaymin is one of those Pokemon that the anime doesn't really treat as legendary, at least in terms of power(excluding the movie, but even then..). It's treated more like this really rare Pokemon than some super-powerful being
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
That one ep with Mallow and her mother was great and if her character always had that kind of depth it would have been good. But Mallow is intended to be a support character so everyone knew from the start she wasn't going to get much focus. I do wonder if she'll get an arc with Shaymin tho

The problem is that Mallow was still promoted and treated like one of the main protagonists so came out with the same expectations. If she had been a semi recurring character like Acerola or Olivia that's not really meant to have her own individual focus this wouldn't be a problem, but the show wanted her within the main group and to chart her supposed "development", sometimes when we could have gotten focus on one of the more vibrant protagonists (why we have about seven Mallow episodes and only four Kiawe ones is beyond me).
 

JC317

Well-Known Member
So I just saw the US poster for Pokemon's latest season, and I would just like to point out the blatant disrespect towards Kiawe, Sophocles, and Lillie.

pokemon_ultra_legends.jpg


Like what?! Jessie, James and Meowth probably appear in less than half of the episodes in the latest season of the SM anime, and you put them in over the main characters who appear in almost every episode?!
 

Twilight-Kun

Pokemon World Champion
Mallow keeps saying she wants to make her restaurant the best in Alola, yet she never advertises or talks about it whenever they go to other islands

Yet I'm sure in the last episode, everyone will go to the Aina Café because they heard about it and everyone will be eating radishes because they didn't bother letting Mallow develop any other recipes

It's hilarious that Oranguru's bar is far more popular

Probably because Oranguru goes to the spa constantly and interacts with more than the same six people

It's depressing how the charming and quirky characters of Alola got about the same level of development as Ash's Unovan pokémon team
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Mallow keeps saying she wants to make her restaurant the best in Alola, yet she never advertises or talks about it whenever they go to other islands

Yet I'm sure in the last episode, everyone will go to the Aina Café because they heard about it and everyone will be eating radishes because they didn't bother letting Mallow develop any other recipes

It's hilarious that Oranguru's bar is far more popular

Probably because Oranguru goes to the spa constantly and interacts with more than the same six people

It's depressing how the charming and quirky characters of Alola got about the same level of development as Ash's Unovan pokémon team

Kiawe, Lillie and Sophocles I think did reasonably okay, you can at least get something of a character arc out of their role this series and they offer their own quirks and gags and take part in some of the antics instead of being in the background all the time (depending on whether the episode is a bit over grossed in Ash humour). It's just in contrast we have Mallow and Lana who they haven't really put much effort into at all, they don't have character flaws or obstacles to trigger an arc in the first place and most of the time don't even take part in the ensemble roles and gags, but they TELL us they're awesome non stop, which you know, makes a really interesting character and agenda. :p

I really worry which standard the next series will use to develop their companions, ones with likeable quirks and flaws that they did put a reasonable effort into fitting in, or flat almost Mary Sue-ish characters that get no real contributions except shilling them every time they appear and usually aren't even game to the show's antics. Especially worrying since one is obviously much easier to write for than the other.
 
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Blue Saturday

Violet Prince❤️
Not to mention putting them over the two least developed protagonists in the series. I mean Lana I can understand due to Eevee but is anyone really watching for Mallow anymore?
Just because you don’t like Mao (and are really really vocal about it) doesn’t mean others don’t love her character and really look forward to her screentime and episodes. SPPf isn’t the entire Pokemon anime fandom. I see plenty of love, art, content and posts for Mao and Suiren on several fandom spaces I frequent daily.
 
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Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
I really want a Lillie episode, because she don't get anything since the sandshrew episode.

She's getting focus at some point
Both z-ring and Mohn(The only bad Aether family member.... wish they just kept him out) are coming.
 

Lightning Bolt

Well-Known Member
Meh I just don't care about Lillie anymore. Sadly, she was my favorite Alola girl, and now she's my least favorite. I loved her character but after the Aether Arc I don't know how I feel about her anymore. This may sound like hate, but I am really trying to love her again. She didn't need a Z Crystal, she need a second Pokémon. I loved the Ice Cave ep, except the scene when she gets a Icium Z. Sophocles deserve Z Crystals way more honestly. This rule of "Ash and classmates cannot share Z Crystals" it's ridiculous. Sophocles having a Z Ring would be far more interesting because he's a decent battler and could use more often. Just give him Eletric, Steel and Bug Z and he is done. It feels like the writers are trying to give her relevance again but I really doubt it will work. They don't give teammates to Shiron (a support Pokémon) but keep giving arcs to her when better characters like Kiawe barely gets screentime. Lillie get focus in the games and manga so it's boring seeing the same thing in anime. Mallow has Tsareena and Shaymin to play. Lillie has Shiron that may evolve eventually but that's all. Just give a Cleffa/Cutiefly to her and develop her as a battler. You guys can talk about Lana but she is seen training regularly, and actually develops her dream. Lillie has became such a bland character imo...
 

Kintaro

Banned
Just because you don’t like Mao (and are really really vocal about it) doesn’t mean others don’t love her character and really look forward to her screentime and episodes. SPPf isn’t the entire Pokemon anime fandom. I see plenty of love, art, content and posts for Mao and Suiren on several fandom spaces I frequent daily.

Well every character has their fans, but Lana is very popular. Mallow didn't really get much interest in the fandom till the ep with her dead mother aired. Her design was always popular but that could just be said for her game counterpart and for fanart, Mallow really wasn't utilized well for most of SM prior.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I admit I am disappointed with how little limelight Lillie has gotten since the AF arc (and even that screwed her over a little with Nebby), though I can sort of take it since she worked okay in ensemble plots like UG missions and had a likeable and entertaining personality, like Kiawe she was a character that could work okay under limited limelight. It diluted a bit too much in Season Three, though odd cases like the golf episode imply 'try hard' Lillie isn't gone forever.

The biggest letdown is her role as a trainer, with only one Pokemon that now barely even has a personality. I get games Lillie originally wasn't even a trainer in the first place, but that seems a bit like a cheap loophole, especially since she got a Pokemon after the first dozen or so episodes.

I'd actually love Lillie to stick a little longer just to better fulfil that, given she'd likely hold on as a third wheel better than Brock OR Mallow, though I get the feeling she'll want to stay and bond with her newly mended family after SM is done.
 

Kintaro

Banned
Didn't Gladion get all the spotlight in the UB finale? As I said the other problem is now almost all of Lillie's eps involve Gladion, but Lillie doesn't actually do anything in said episodes because Gladion takes all the spotlight. Willing to bet the same thing happens when Mohn shows up
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
Didn't Gladion get all the spotlight in the UB finale? As I said the other problem is now almost all of Lillie's eps involve Gladion, but Lillie doesn't actually do anything in said episodes because Gladion takes all the spotlight. Willing to bet the same thing happens when Mohn shows up

Lillie is kind of the non-action girl, though unlike the other non-battlers they're kinda sticking to that setup and focusing on her personality rather than giving her tons of dumbed down bad guys to beat like Team Rocket every episode. Still she makes a good supporting battler and most of her episodes do well giving her introspective rather than focusing on action she can't commit to. Sophocles is kinda similar. I think the recent Poni arc was the only time I thought her role got utterly hijacked by Ash and Gladion, otherwise her episodes still often feel at least like she's still the main internal force.

Ironically I think her utility to the others is more developed than the other girls due to being the smart girl/strategist in a lot of group episodes.
 
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p96822

Evolve me please
What did Sophocles and Lillie does for the group then the other characters from the other seasons. I felt like nether of them are useful in any meaningful way. I still think like Clemont invence even though sometime they fail have more use then those characters
 

Blue Saturday

Violet Prince❤️
Well every character has their fans, but Lana is very popular. Mallow didn't really get much interest in the fandom till the ep with her dead mother aired. Her design was always popular but that could just be said for her game counterpart and for fanart, Mallow really wasn't utilized well for most of SM prior.
Unless you have statistics and facts to measure the level of “popularity” amongst the fandom and not just your subjective perceptions of what you see as popularity, I can’t take your post seriously. Again, the fandom is more than just your own little bubble.
 

Kintaro

Banned
Unless you have statistics and facts to measure the level of “popularity” amongst the fandom and not just your subjective perceptions of what you see as popularity, I can’t take your post seriously. Again, the fandom is more than just your own little bubble.

I literally just agreed with you that every character has their fans. What on earth are you talking about? Of course there's no way to tell how popular each character is outside of online stuff because millions of kids watch it. And some characters just generate more discussion online than others. It's just pretty obvious if you visit different pokemon related forums/social media sites/fanart sites onlines, some characters generally have larger fanbases than others. Which I would assume would be common sense, not every character can be as popular as other characters. Even within a single series like the SM cast, I wouldn't say Sophocles is anywhere as popular as the girls, etc.
 

Blue Saturday

Violet Prince❤️
I literally just agreed with you that every character has their fans. What on earth are you talking about? Of course there's no way to tell how popular each character is outside of online stuff because millions of kids watch it. And some characters just generate more discussion online than others. It's just pretty obvious if you visit different pokemon related forums/social media sites/fanart sites onlines, some characters generally have larger fanbases than others. Which I would assume would be common sense, not every character can be as popular as other characters. Even within a single series like the SM cast, I wouldn't say Sophocles is anywhere as popular as the girls, etc.
Okay, my bad, I misunderstood you for sec. I mainly was quoting you because I’m pretty exhausted with members of the fandom using “popularity” as an excuse to crap on characters they personally don’t like as if the fandom is a hive mind and everyone more or less shares the same opinions as a whole. That being said, no matter how good a guess you think you’re making you can’t just assume whatever about a character’s popularity. Because the fandom is more than a certain space. We know for a fact Kurapika Kurta is one of the most popular HxH characters because the Shounen Jump polls consistently rate him that way from the vote tally even if he might not get as much fanart, discussion, screentime or fan fiction as some objectively lower ranked characters. Basically I was saying we shouldn’t speak as if our personal perceptions are fact, it only spreads more misinformation and confusion amongst the fandom.
 
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JC317

Well-Known Member
Unless you have statistics and facts to measure the level of “popularity” amongst the fandom and not just your subjective perceptions of what you see as popularity, I can’t take your post seriously. Again, the fandom is more than just your own little bubble.

While this might not be the most accurate, one possible measurement that we can use is Pixiv fanart. Since we can look at the number of fanart with tags for certain characters, we can see how much fanart each character has.
According to Pixiv, Mallow has just over 1300 pieces of fanart, Lana has just under 2300 pieces of fanart, and Lillie has just over 4600 pieces of fanart. Of course, these Pixiv tags may be applied to fanart which do not solely focus on said characters, but that does give a general idea as to how they each fare in popularity in Japan alone. One of the reasons that Mallow has much less fanart than the other two Pokegirls is that people don't really ship her with Ash; I found plenty of fanart shipping Ash with Lillie or Ash with Lana, but practically none for Ash with Mallow

On the other hand, if we use Danbooru as our source, we see that both Mallow and Lana have around 1100 pieces of fanart, while Lillie has around 3500 pieces of fanart.

In my opinion, Lillie's lead in fanart is likely due to her having a more major role in the games and manga, so I will try and see whether there's a separate tag for the Pokegirls in just the anime.

I'm not sure whether Danbooru is the most accurate source though since it is more of a conglomerate for fanart from different sources, a better source for gauging Western popularity of each character would be using DeviantArt.

However, this does not accurately reflect each characters' popularity with kids, so there's really no way of knowing unless there's an official poll or something from TVTokyo.
 
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