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Sun & Moon Characters Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'Animé Spoilers' started by Sushi, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. Blue Saturday

    Blue Saturday too fly

    Unless you have statistics and facts to measure the level of “popularity” amongst the fandom and not just your subjective perceptions of what you see as popularity, I can’t take your post seriously. Again, the fandom is more than just your own little bubble.
     
    Pokegirl Fan~ likes this.
  2. Kintaro

    Kintaro Well-Known Member

    I literally just agreed with you that every character has their fans. What on earth are you talking about? Of course there's no way to tell how popular each character is outside of online stuff because millions of kids watch it. And some characters just generate more discussion online than others. It's just pretty obvious if you visit different pokemon related forums/social media sites/fanart sites onlines, some characters generally have larger fanbases than others. Which I would assume would be common sense, not every character can be as popular as other characters. Even within a single series like the SM cast, I wouldn't say Sophocles is anywhere as popular as the girls, etc.
     
  3. Blue Saturday

    Blue Saturday too fly

    Okay, my bad, I misunderstood you for sec. I mainly was quoting you because I’m pretty exhausted with members of the fandom using “popularity” as an excuse to crap on characters they personally don’t like as if the fandom is a hive mind and everyone more or less shares the same opinions as a whole. That being said, no matter how good a guess you think you’re making you can’t just assume whatever about a character’s popularity. Because the fandom is more than a certain space. We know for a fact Kurapika Kurta is one of the most popular HxH characters because the Shounen Jump polls consistently rate him that way from the vote tally even if he might not get as much fanart, discussion, screentime or fan fiction as some objectively lower ranked characters. Basically I was saying we shouldn’t speak as if our personal perceptions are fact, it only spreads more misinformation and confusion amongst the fandom.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
  4. JC317

    JC317 Well-Known Member

    While this might not be the most accurate, one possible measurement that we can use is Pixiv fanart. Since we can look at the number of fanart with tags for certain characters, we can see how much fanart each character has.
    According to Pixiv, Mallow has just over 1300 pieces of fanart, Lana has just under 2300 pieces of fanart, and Lillie has just over 4600 pieces of fanart. Of course, these Pixiv tags may be applied to fanart which do not solely focus on said characters, but that does give a general idea as to how they each fare in popularity in Japan alone. One of the reasons that Mallow has much less fanart than the other two Pokegirls is that people don't really ship her with Ash; I found plenty of fanart shipping Ash with Lillie or Ash with Lana, but practically none for Ash with Mallow

    On the other hand, if we use Danbooru as our source, we see that both Mallow and Lana have around 1100 pieces of fanart, while Lillie has around 3500 pieces of fanart.

    In my opinion, Lillie's lead in fanart is likely due to her having a more major role in the games and manga, so I will try and see whether there's a separate tag for the Pokegirls in just the anime.

    I'm not sure whether Danbooru is the most accurate source though since it is more of a conglomerate for fanart from different sources, a better source for gauging Western popularity of each character would be using DeviantArt.

    However, this does not accurately reflect each characters' popularity with kids, so there's really no way of knowing unless there's an official poll or something from TVTokyo.
     
  5. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    You have to remember however that the girls also get fan art for.....other reasons.
     
  6. JC317

    JC317 Well-Known Member

    To be fair, I turned on R-18 when using Pixiv, so I was hoping that eliminated some of the... less appropriate fanart. I'm sure there will be much more fanart for Mallow, Lana, and Lillie once I turned off the R-18 filter
     
  7. Kintaro

    Kintaro Well-Known Member

    You also have to remember a lot of the fanart is based on game Lillie, like ones that show her with the SM female protagonist, or with Cosmog, etc. Of course if you include game fanart a character has a lot more, but you got to simply browse art based on the anime version of the characters which of course isn't always easy. But game Lillie is always pictured different than anime Lillie who is usually with Snowy or the SM canime cast. And yeah if you're using the Japanese fanart sites, most of is adult art or hentai.
     
  8. RedJirachi

    RedJirachi Veteran member

    You say one innuendo "press a to pound" line and suddenly that side of the internet is all over you. Though we all know in that field, Lusamine is the queen
     
  9. Redstar45

    Redstar45 The Fire type master !

    Wat !? Ok why this a sun and moon characters speculating thread have turned to into a lewd speculating thread ?
     
    Kawaii Emolga likes this.
  10. CMButch

    CMButch Well-Known Member

    Kiawe: He will probably be a trainer starting with Sinnoh or Johto or Kanto( no Hoenn please)
    Lillie: She will either stay with family and be Ultra Guardian or she will set off her journey in Kanto
    Mallow: She will be a cook in Alola
    Lana: She will probably be trial captain
    Sophocles: I don't know. Probably a trial captain or engineer.
     
    Redstar45 likes this.
  11. Ignition

    Ignition I had no standards yet I’m still disappointed lol

    Really hoping Plumeria wasn’t just a way to say “Hey, we didn’t forget there’s more to Team Skull but we’re still gonna wait”
     
    Redstar45 and Zoruagible like this.
  12. CMButch

    CMButch Well-Known Member

    I think TRio as of BW until today haven't been as annoying as they were in AG and DP? TRio in OS were fine I guess. Probably because they don't appear as much they they in AG/DP every episode and in OS they were tolerable. My ranking of TRio from the most enjoyable to least would be: BW > XY > SM > OS > AG > DP. DP's TRio were the most annoying ones, IMO.Not only that they're component battling-wise, in SM they actually won, then in one episode TRio would've won again, if Pikachu didn't learn Electroweb.While in DP they'd get one shot by Pikachu or other mon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 12:28 PM
  13. lemoncatpower

    lemoncatpower Cynical Optimist

    I see them all staying in Alola to take on trial captain duties except Lillie
     
    Kawaii Emolga likes this.
  14. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    A reminder we still have a good few Z Moves to go through. The Poni arc left things much more open ended to who could get what. Even just counting elements:

    Ghostium Z
    Psychium Z
    Bugium Z
    Poisonium Z
    Fairyium Z

    Obviously a couple can be anticipated to be going to some upcoming characters but there's still some here I have no idea about.
     
  15. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    My problem with SM TR is that they're still not really relevant as antagonists. While they're fun as characters they don't really have any funny chemistry with the twerps (only Ultra Legends has really toyed with them having some humourous interactions) and while they have spouts of competence, it's never in a way that really forces a challenge like say, BW TR, where the twerps regularly had to fight them off in genuinely tense battles and earn their happy ending for a change. Hell such a thing could have evened out SM's low battle count.

    Like you pointed out, anytime they put up a halfway decent fight, the twerps don't overcome it, Bewear or plot armour just always negates it, otherwise it's just standard total curb stomps even for the twerps who've seldom even battled before. I think the Alolan Meowth episode and the second mech battle with Misty were about the only times TR put up a persistent scheme and the twerps were forced to put in a reasonable amount of effort to unravel it with no interference in their favour, which isn't really enough to validate them as their main enemies. Getting stuff like Mimikyu or Z Moves has not helped them keep Ash and co on their toes more, it's just increased the amount of times they win by pure luck, otherwise the twerps barely acknowledge them as anything but jobbers and stock villains, which is a pretty boring dynamic. Even the token moments the two sides team up to spice it up are almost non-existent this series.

    Say what you will about DP TR but they at least still had moments they worked as meaningful opponents for the twerps, such as Jessie being Dawn's legitimate contest rival, or the two sides clicking and having snarky banter more frequently. Even in spite of their poor battling they still had odd times they got in a few hits but the twerps still managed to overpower them with no plot armour, making it almost feel like a proper fight.

    It is a shame because otherwise SM TR are pretty good, they have a more moderate role so they don't usually dilute the twerps' development, their personalities are spot on most of the time, and going back to HQ frequently and even having Matori get a role (if not a big one) helps them feel a bit more integral. I also like that, like Ash, they're being forced into a new premise and methodically trying to improvise to get an upper hand. They're actually trying to level grind for once. It's just not really amounting to anything because the twerps just kinda stonewall anything they do and refuse to play off of them, which stands out particularly in a series so revolved around comedic interactions.

    I think in order to fix TR fully they actually have to put more attention into the actual 'twerps vs Team Rocket' dynamic, their presence has to offer SOMETHING worthwhile to the heroes' characters, even if it's just someone to get a funny rivalry out of like in the OS. Nowadays they almost exist as a reason to pad screen time and keep the twerps blander. When they appear they don't have to have personalities to drive the story, or put agency into boosting their Pokemon, they can just have TR gatecrash the episode and act as plot devices while they go on 'autopilot'. XY was particularly bad with this, especially since it was the one series they weren't mandated to appear every episode BUT STILL DID ANYWAY.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019 at 10:22 PM
  16. p96822

    p96822 Evolve me please

    Team Rocket wasn't that bad in XY. I say if Team Rocket had less limitations of Bewear and Stufful then they could be better. If it was the XY version of Teaam Rocket they would have call there Pokemon into battle If Team Rocket where more like their Xy selves then they could steal Pokemon and leave without any problems. The Problem is that Team Rocket are not as aggressive as there were in Xy
     
    Twilight-Kun likes this.
  17. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    But they still lost easily to trainers who could barely even battle in XY.

    They started off okay in XY, but after a while the same problem arose; they didn't have much chemistry with the twerps and unlike in BW, the writers didn't often seem as invested thinking up ways for the twerps to fight them back, so plot armour moments usually took over opposed to proper fights, and after a while they just skipped the formalities and made them pushovers again. After a while I just would preferred something on SM's level where TR only interrupted sporadically and the twerps often got to drive episodes on their own and enhance their personalities rather than defeat a really really easy to beat bad guy in the most boring and repetitive of ways, but it was obvious that some of the twerps lack so much agency that they always need the plots dumbed down for them. Mallow is an SM example, she doesn't really have the experience to do good even handed battles, but they suck thinking up slice of life personal challenges for her as well, so to pad most of her episodes, plot armoured one sided TR beatdowns it is. It's that or, you know, develop her a personality.

    I think this is as key a problem with TR, that to make them work as bad guys they need to make the good guys bounce off of them. Making a challenging bad guy is pointless if you can't think up a satisfying way for the heroes to beat that challenge, same for making a funny bad guy if the heroes just stand there poker faced refusing to respond to any of their gags. You could make TR the most ideal bad guys in the world and it wouldn't mean jack diddly squat if the twerps still were too bland to play off of that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019 at 12:15 AM
  18. p96822

    p96822 Evolve me please

    Who really care about Team Rocket having chesmey with Ash and the gang. They have a job to do and that is stealing anything including Pokemon
     
  19. Pokegirl Fan~

    Pokegirl Fan~ I'm hunting Ryoko!

    Team Rocket drags the anime down, along with Ash for me. I feel that they hold the other main characters back from getting proper screentime and development.
     
    AznKei likes this.
  20. DatsRight

    DatsRight Well-Known Member

    The fact they're still using them in such a formulaic way despite them no longer being mandated leads me to believe they exist solely to get out of giving them proper screentime and development. Again Ash and Team Rocket practically pad the majority of Mallow's screentime or act as her straw loser, I don't think the problem there is Ash or TR but simply that they can't think of anything to make Mallow stand out on her own. I also think they played little connection in the likes of Kiawe getting so few episodes, that was likely more down to not having ideas for him.
     

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