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Sun & Moon Pokémon Speculation Thread

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Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
I actually don't mind some DEM's and power-ups which results in wins for Ash to be honest. :p
What a surprise...

The four-move limit exists specifically so the battles aren't just DBZ-style attack spam fests where there is no strategy involved and anyone can pull any move out of their *** at any point to win. It would make most of the battles seem cheap, as well.
 
What a surprise...

The four-move limit exists specifically so the battles aren't just DBZ-style attack spam fests where there is no strategy involved and anyone can pull any move out of their *** at any point to win. It would make most of the battles seem cheap, as well.
Well, if a battle is a combination of DEM+excellent strategizing, then I think that the battle can be really awesome. That's why I really liked some of the XY(Z) battles.
 
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U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Forgetting an awesome move to learn another good move, that doesn't seem favourable to me.
This would mean that no tough choices would be made in terms of moves, thus no reason to strategize around the weaknesses and limitations of those moves

If the awesome battles in DP/XY had not followed the 4 move barrier, I think they would have been even better.
If removing strategy for spamming high power moves is considered a good thing, then I love the bad stuff.


I actually don't mind some DEM's and power-ups which results in wins for Ash to be honest.
I sometimes wonder what your fanfiction looks like and if the whole world prays to the church of Ash.

Well, if a battle is a combination of DEM+excellent strategizing, then I think that the battle can be really awesome. That's why I really liked some of the XY(Z) battles.
DEM by nature is not strategized; it's spontaneous. It is a breaker of tension. It does not create a feeling of glory for the audience; it leaves them with a hollow feeling with way too much surprise.
 
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Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
I sometimes wonder what your fanfiction looks like and if the whole world prays to the church of Ash.
I laughed at this way harder than I should have. xD
 

Mrs. Oreo

Banned
From what I gather from the images, none of Ash's Pokemon are evolving anytime soon
Even without any spoiler images, I wasn't really expecting any evolutions on his team anytime soon. So far Rockruff's been fairly active, but even his evolution doesn't seem close to me. Then again given how SM is, it's not like Rockruff really needs to evolve from my perspective.
 

johno1995

Well-Known Member
Why on earth would a show about games that only allow four moves on a Pokemon's roster allow them to have more? Probably the best choice of post-OS anime. It reflects the games. As it should.
 

DuquÊ?

Too lazy to pick a pic
Honestly, this is the first time I see someone praising DEMs.
DEMs aren't bad if they actually add something to the storytelling (which is admittedly hard to do). Be a new attack, form or Z-move, if it complements and make the thing more interesting and compelling, I'd like to see something diferent from the games, since I'm not that attached to mechanics. But, it's my opinion.

Anyway, a Z-move already works like a 5th attack, can't see the 4 moves limit going farthest than that.
 
This would mean that no tough choices would be made in terms of moves, thus no reason to strategize around the weaknesses and limitations of those moves
Even if a Pokemon has many moves, in a battle one has to use the right move at the right time. So the strategizing in still there, maybe the options are more.


If removing strategy for spamming high power moves is considered a good thing, then I love the bad stuff.
Spamming high power moves+good strategizing, that's what I'm taking about.

I sometimes wonder what your fanfiction looks like and if the whole world prays to the church of Ash.
Truly speaking, it's something like that, but that's another thing, so let's not go further there.

DEM by nature is not strategized; it's spontaneous. It is a breaker of tension. It does not create a feeling of glory for the audience; it leaves them with a hollow feeling with way too much surprise.
Using good strategies throughout the battle(to neutralize some dangerous status moves or so), but at the end winning the battle with a high powered DEM move- does cool quite cool to me.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Using good strategies throughout the battle(to neutralize some dangerous status moves or so), but at the end winning the battle with a high powered DEM move- does cool quite cool to me.
A deus ex machina, by its very nature, is not exactly compatible with good strategizing. The term deus ex machina "has evolved to mean a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly resolved by the inspired and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability or object." In other words, if a deus ex machina is needed, then that implies whatever strategies were being employed were not working. A Pokémon suddenly evolving and then winning a battle it was previously losing might classify as a deus ex machina, but there's no strategizing involved in that. It's a spontaneous event that was outside the control of the characters. What you are describing--using a high-powered move to win a battle--is not a deus ex machina.

Deus ex machina are often used when the writer has written himself into a corner and needs an "easy way out," so to speak, in order to progress the plot, which is probably why a lot of people view it as bad writing. Sometimes, it's used well, but a lot of times, it's not used well.
 

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
I'm sure either Litten or Rockruff will evolve soon. I doubt he's going to go much longer without an evolution. Rockruff battling Olivia's Lycanroc would just be dumb, it needs to be Midday by then.
He's definitely the next character to get one, unless James surprises us with Mareanie.
Cause Charjabug's not evolving so soon after getting caught, and Popplio's the only non-Ash mon left that can evolve. Shiron is obviously not evolving anytime soon so I'm not bothering counting her. Sandshrew is sure to appear before that happens.

I sometimes wonder what your fanfiction looks like and if the whole world prays to the church of Ash.
lmao
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
DEMs aren't bad if they actually add something to the storytelling (which is admittedly hard to do). Be a new attack, form or Z-move, if it complements and make the thing more interesting and compelling, I'd like to see something diferent from the games, since I'm not that attached to mechanics. But, it's my opinion.

Anyway, a Z-move already works like a 5th attack, can't see the 4 moves limit going farthest than that.
The only time I've seen a DEM work well is in Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame where Frollo yells "And he shall smite the wicked and plunge them into the fiery pit" before falling into a pool of molten lead. Even then, the nature of Deus Ex Machina is up for debate, seeing how religion and holiness are major themes.


Spamming high power moves+good strategizing, that's what I'm taking about.
Spamming the same high power moves makes the anime fall into the same pit as the competitive battling world, shallow move pool.

Using good strategies throughout the battle(to neutralize some dangerous status moves or so), but at the end winning the battle with a high powered DEM move- does cool quite cool to me.
DEM by nature throws out any tension. There is no reward in DEM because there is no buildup. Every single battle will be like shaking keys in front of a baby, all flash and no substance. There would be no character development if the odds were always stacked in favor of the protagonists. There would be no strategy needed because the plot is always on your side. There is no catharsis for the audience investment because there is no tension to have catharsis to.
 
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ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I'm sure either Litten or Rockruff will evolve soon. I doubt he's going to go much longer without an evolution. Rockruff battling Olivia's Lycanroc would just be dumb, it needs to be Midday by then.

He's definitely the next character to get one, unless James surprises us with Mareanie.
Cause Charjabug's not evolving so soon after getting caught, and Popplio's the only non-Ash mon left that can evolve. Shiron is obviously not evolving anytime soon so I'm not bothering counting her. Sandshrew is sure to appear before that happens.

Or it could even be Rowlet.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As far as right now really the pokemon that could potentially be evolving soon are:

James' Mareanie
Ash's Rowlet
Ash's Rockruff
Ash's Litten
Lana's Popplio

Now it's possible that Rockruff could surprise us and evolve before the starters do, or maybe it will evolve after the starters do, but there is a good chance that James' Mareanie could evolve before any of Ash's pokemon do. Now whether or not Rockruff will evolve before the starters do will depend on how late the writers want to wait before they evolve it, for instance if it's evolve shortly before the Grand Trail or for a Grand Trail rematch then some of the starters are probably going to evolve before it however if it is evolving sooner then expected then it could potentially evolve before the starters evolve or in between some of the starters evolving.

Now regardless of how some people might feel about Rowlet or Litten, there is a relatively good chance that Rowlet may actually evolve before Litten because if you look at it Rowlet's been on the main cast for a longer period of time, and if you look at it right now it would make more sense for Rowlet to be the next one to evolve over Litten, because lets face it we seen Rowlet a good amount already where if you look at it ever since Litten was captured it hasn't really been in an official battle yet, I fair it would be a little more fair to both Rowlet and Litten to let Rowlet evolve before Litten that way we get to see Ash with Litten for a little longer and it can get an actual official battle in and do a bit more before it evolves.
 
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Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
Zoruagible is convinced that Rowlet is going to go the way of Piplup, Oshawott, and Chespin and remain unevolved for marketing and comic relief purposes, and his mind's not going to be changed until we get solid evidence that Rowlet is going to evolve. Like that cake and script that spoiled Goodra, Luxray, Braixen, and Gourgeist. Unfortunately, the anime team has been a lot more careful about not leaking anything in this series so far.

Nothing has happened to change my mind on this topic. I still maintain that either Mareanie or Rockruff is going to be the first to evolve. Toxapex's card was drawn by an animator and looks like something straight out of the anime when (I would think) it would be a lot easier to just use standard TCG art. Meanwhile, that set also contained a Midday Lycanroc card, but no Dartrix or Torracat. I would think if there were any plans to evolve the starters anytime soon, we would have seen an Ash's Dartrix or Ash's Torracat. Not to mention the fact that starters never evolve early for marketing purposes. No, I don't expect to see any of the starters evolving anytime soon. However, the fact that the Lycanroc card used TCG art instead of anime art like on Toxapex's card makes me think that we're still not going to see Rockruff evolving anytime soon.

However, I do agree that there is a chance of Rowlet evolving before Litten, but for a different reason. Simply put, Litten has no immediate need to evolve. It went toe-to-toe with Pikachu in its capture episode and learned Fire Fang in the following episode. As of right now, it seems to be a perfectly capable battler without evolution. That's not to say Rowlet isn't a capable battler, of course, but it hasn't battled since the Grand Trial. Even in the battles it has participated in, it hasn't really impressed. Its wins are against a fodder Pokemon in Yungoos and a Crabrawler that it needed a comeback win against. While I do think it needs a little bit more battle experience before evolution, as of right now, I think it could benefit from evolving now, where Litten could go without for a little while.
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
Zoruagible is convinced that Rowlet is going to go the way of Piplup, Oshawott, and Chespin and remain unevolved for marketing and comic relief purposes, and his mind's not going to be changed until we get solid evidence that Rowlet is going to evolve. Like that cake and script that spoiled Goodra, Luxray, Braixen, and Gourgeist. Unfortunately, the anime team has been a lot more careful about not leaking anything in this series so far.

Nothing has happened to change my mind on this topic. I still maintain that either Mareanie or Rockruff is going to be the first to evolve. Toxapex's card was drawn by an animator and looks like something straight out of the anime when (I would think) it would be a lot easier to just use standard TCG art. Meanwhile, that set also contained a Midday Lycanroc card, but no Dartrix or Torracat. I would think if there were any plans to evolve the starters anytime soon, we would have seen an Ash's Dartrix or Ash's Torracat. Not to mention the fact that starters never evolve early for marketing purposes. No, I don't expect to see any of the starters evolving anytime soon. However, the fact that the Lycanroc card used TCG art instead of anime art like on Toxapex's card makes me think that we're still not going to see Rockruff evolving anytime soon.

However, I do agree that there is a chance of Rowlet evolving before Litten, but for a different reason. Simply put, Litten has no immediate need to evolve. It went toe-to-toe with Pikachu in its capture episode and learned Fire Fang in the following episode. As of right now, it seems to be a perfectly capable battler without evolution. That's not to say Rowlet isn't a capable battler, of course, but it hasn't battled since the Grand Trial. Even in the battles it has participated in, it hasn't really impressed. Its wins are against a fodder Pokemon in Yungoos and a Crabrawler that it needed a comeback win against. While I do think it needs a little bit more battle experience before evolution, as of right now, I think it could benefit from evolving now, where Litten could go without for a little while.
I think it's important to note that there wasn't even really any merchandise or advertising that was really indicating or hinting at Mallow's Bounsweet evolving in episode 18 and Sophocles catching a Charjabug in episode 26, and like you said the anime team has been a lot more careful about not leaking anything in the series so far, so I really don't think that just because Torracat and/or Dartrix aren't in the TCG set you mention that it would necessarily mean that it would be safe to say that they aren't evolving soon, because we really don't seem to be finding out about a capture or evolution happening until right before or shortly before the episode airs.

Now while it isn't guaranteed that the starters will evolve soon, I don't think we can really just say that oh it's safe to say that the starters won't evolve soon or it's unlikely that they would evolve soon, because we never know especially with how sun and moon has been treating captures and evolutions, heck for all we know it's entirely possible that one of the starters will evolve around episode 30. After all some people didn't think Bounsweet would evolve into Steenee in episode 18 because they thought Bounsweet hasn't done that much and that it was too early for a pokemon on the main cast to be evolving, that wasn't a regional bug or bird.

Plus I wouldn't even be that surprised if Lana's Popplio winds up evolving relatively soon.
 
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Psychotic

NotLikeThis
I can see Rowlet evoling to Dartrix but no further, after that he goes from "fancy bird" to "edgelord bird" and loses marketability.
 
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DavidD001

Well-Known Member
I can see Rowlet evoling to Dartrix but no further, after that he goes from "fancy bird" to "edgelord bird" and loses marketability.
So you don't want Ash to finally have his first Ghost-type? Decidueye is the best bet for Ash to have a Ghost-type.
 

Everything12

Well-Known Member
I think that Rockruff will evolve first after its crushing defeat by Gladion's Lycanroc which will lead it to desire to evolve to gain more strength.
 

Akkipeddi

White Yaksha
It may still be early at this point, but looking at the characteristics of the pokemon so far, it's pretty certain that Lycanroc is confirmed and that Litten should eventually evolve to Incineroar, but I'm getting the feeling that Rowlet may not evolve, or if it does, it'll only evolve to Dartrix. Rowlet seems to be this gen's gag pokemon although luckily it is not shoved at our faces all the time and is far less annoying than other gag pokemon which is a big plus. Furthermore, with Rockruff getting a potential rivalry arc, and Litten mastering fire fang, these two seem like they will be used in majority of upcoming battles, leaving Rowlet mostly in the background.

And some people say that Rowlet will fully evolve as Ash fully evolves all his bird pokemon, but I don't think Rowlet falls under the same category as Starly, Taillow, etc. It so happens to have a secondary typing of flying, but it still is categorised as his starter, and usually it's anyone's guess weather the starters evolve or not.
 
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