Sun & Moon Pokémon Speculation Thread

[DatsRight]

I will admit I'm tempted to think they might make Lycanroc Ash's SM ace as a tribute for Rica Matsumoto, who lost her dog near the end of XY's run (she mentioned it affected her acting during Greninja's departure episode). They've definitely gone all the way to make it's role with a Ash like a heartwarming 'boy and his dog' story so far.

 

[noakai]

We should also keep in mind that if a new generation doesn't come out until 2019, we have over a years' worth of episodes left. Even a late 2018 new generation still gives us another year. They're already doing an Aether arc, which I thought they would leave for the end. They obviously have some kind of plan for after that, so it's possible that Dusk Lycanroc and its rivalry with Silvally will run its course in this part and then later on it will be time to focus on a new rival and another Pokemon will get some attention. We still have no idea what they're going to do with Nebby after all - it evolves in the games, will it evolve here? - or if they're going to do a League and how they'll go about it.

 

[ShadowForce720]

It's been fine up until now, but it's not like Rockruff has received the lion's share of the limelight so far. If Dusk Lycanroc is going to get more screentime in the future, that means less screentime for Rowlet, Litten, and any other capture he will get. It means there's no way in hell Ash will have both Decidueye and Incineroar without one or both of their evolutions being rushed. And I don't really fancy the idea of an anime-only rival with one of them, as that would basically be Cameron all over again: a shoehorned rival that exists just to prevent Ash from getting Decidueye/Incineroar. That would just be a dick move.

I have no issue with Lycanroc being the ace, although I would orefer something more akin to Hoenn where there are no aces and everyone gets roughly equal screentime. My issue is that they're potentially establishing it as the ace too early, and my concern is that it's going to be another Infernape or Greninja hogging the limelight for 100 episodes and leaving the rest of Ash's Pokemon in the dust. Yeah, it's been fine until now, but there's no guarantee it will stay that way. Hell, Litten is already starved for screentime and battles as it is.

I think it's a little to early to just assume that Rowlet and Litten or any other pokemon that Ash catches is going to get shafted considering that if you look at it, Lycanroc evolved in episode 37 however since then the only real battles it's been where against Team Rocket where it was mainly just practicing a Z-move or was just to end the battle quickly, or in the recent case where it had it's first actual battle being against Gladion's Type:Null.

Now here the thing though it's being said that oh well that Lycanroc battle Gladion's Type:Null so that means it's probably going to be Ash's ace, but here's the thing realistically out of Ash's entire current Alolan Team the only pokemon besides Pikachu that could have realistically taken on Type:Null and win or at least give it a challenge was Lycanroc, and before people try to say that oh well Litten and Rowlet are strong so it's realistic for them to give Type:Null a challenge.

The problem with that argument is that Type:Null was specifically designed to battle Ultra Beast which are just as strong as legendary pokemon, so no matter how you look at it if Type:Null were to either lose or have trouble against Ash's Rowlet or Litten it would make Type:Null look pretty weak and would bring up the question of if it can't beat a Rowlet or Litten, then how could it ever beat a Ultra Beast, and then people would just be bashing it. Also Type:Null beating Ash's Rowlet or Litten wouldn't be that impressive considering you would expect it to be able to easily beat them, so if there trying to show off Type:Null's strength and makes more sense for it to battle Lycanroc or Pikachu.

Yes Lycanroc could still get some more focus and battle Type:Null again but for all we know by the time that Ash and Gladion have their final battle it's quite possible that Rowlet and/or Litten have fully evolved by that point and even surpassed Lycanroc in strength, because you have to keep in mind the reason why Ash's Lycanroc is his 2nd strongest pokemon on his Alolan Team after Pikachu was simply do to the fact that it was the first one to evolve, while Litten and Rowlet are still in their base stages.

Since when does one of Ash’s Pokemon NEED to have its own Z-Move and/or evolve to have a purpose? Litten could never use a Z-Move again and never evolve and it would still have a role as a character and team member. Sure it would kinda suck if it wasn’t getting similar attention to the others, but it wouldn’t make it irrelevant.



I’m not upset about it, I just think a lot of people are jumping the gun. I personally think it would be more interesting to keep him in that role than to go for an obvious choice like a fully-evolved starter, but there is a lot of time left in the saga and things can change quickly. Also, people keep treating the rivalry with Gladion like it’s the defining plot of the series, ala Paul or Alain, and we just have no idea if that will be true. He certainly hasn’t yet developed the personal rivalry with Ash that they did. Regardless, it’s fully possible for Lycanroc to take center stage in rivaling Gladion without being the main focus outside that context. Again, I see nothing wrong with Lycanroc being the team’s ace, and I think it can be handled in an interesting way, but I simply think it’s too early to definitively judge.

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, I think people are hyping up Silvally’s power quite a bit more than may be necessary. Yes, it is a Legendary Pokemon ... a distinction given to it by the people who MADE IT, who intended it to be a Pokemon mirroring Arceus and being able to “slay” the Ultra Beasts and FAILED. Obviously Silvally is not Arceus, and it is certainly a powerful Pokemon in its own right, but honestly we have no indication that the Aether Foundation even succeeded in creating it as the “Beast Killer” it was meant to be. So yeah, I have no doubts that Silvally is an incredibly powerful Pokemon who will give Ash a good run for his money in their future battles and who will probably play a role in combatting the Ultra Beasts, but I think people are assigning it a lot more grandeur than it really possesses. This isn’t a Darkrai or Latios or whatever that earned its Legendary title by striking awe in the hearts of humans who witnessed its power; it was given its title by a certain green-cuffed Aether dipwad who spends every waking moment stroking his own ego and would just love to claim that he created a wonderful new Legendary Pokemon in the vein of Arceus itself.

Actually from the way things are going if what you just said happens to Litten, then what that would basically mean is that Litten would get shafted, and before you say that it doesn't keep in mind that looking the Alolan Team right now it breaks down like this:

Pikachu has the Electrium-Z and going to be getting the Pikashunium-Z
Rowlet has the Grassium-Z
Lycanroc has the Rockium-Z

basically that's already half of Ash's team that have their own Z-crystal and in Lycanroc's and Rowlet's(if it fully evolves into a Decidueye) case they could even get their own signature Z-crystals. And given that we know that Ash is getting other Z-crystals it's quite likely that Ash's 4th, and 5th(and if they decided to have him catch 3 more pokemon instead of to then his 6th) captures will likely have Z-crystals that match one of their types, and likely if they have evolutions they could easily evolve. So basically at the end of the day what your basically saying is that Ash's Litten should be the only pokemon on his team that doesn't evolve and a Z-crystal that matches it's type basically in all likely hood making it the weakest linked in the team and shafting it.

So doesn't Litten have to have a Z-crystal that matches it's type? No, but given how each of Ash's pokemon on his Alolan team are getting Z-crystals that are matching their types there is really no reason as to think why Litten wouldn't get the Firium-Z, I mean in all honestly if they didn't want to give Ash a Firium-Z then they could have just had Kiawe get Litten to, and no matter how you look at it I don't think it makes any sense for Litten to be the only pokemon on Ash's entire Alolan team not to have a Z-crystal that matches it's type and then on top of that not allowing it to evolve.

 

[DatsRight]

We should also keep in mind that if a new generation doesn't come out until 2019, we have over a years' worth of episodes left. Even a late 2018 new generation still gives us another year. They're already doing an Aether arc, which I thought they would leave for the end. They obviously have some kind of plan for after that, so it's possible that Dusk Lycanroc and its rivalry with Silvally will run its course in this part and then later on it will be time to focus on a new rival and another Pokemon will get some attention. We still have no idea what they're going to do with Nebby after all - it evolves in the games, will it evolve here? - or if they're going to do a League and how they'll go about it.

Are we actually in Season Two of SM yet or what?

I'm kinda hoping next gen isn't until 2019, otherwise SM will be the shortest series so far, maybe not even reaching two full seasons, unless Pokemon Switch turns out to be an extension of Sun and Moon after all, in which case it might actually end up the longest.

 

[noakai]

Are we actually in Season Two of SM yet or what?

I'm kinda hoping next gen isn't until 2019, otherwise SM will be the shortest series so far, maybe not even reaching two full seasons, unless it turns out to be an extension of Sun and Moon after all.

I don't think we have yet, we're still in S1. I kinda thought maybe the start of the Aether arc would start series two but it didn't. And me personally, I own a Switch but I don't think a new game is coming until 2019. I could be wrong, and I love Pokemon so the more the better, but 2018 just feels too soon with an entirely new console for me. And, as you say, it would be a very short series.

Also, I don't like Inceneroar so I won't be too upset if Litten never evolves into it, but the fact that there are so many Pokemon in the main cast that have their own special Z crystals makes me think surely someone, at some point, will have one and be using that crystal, even if it's just once to show it off. Although, Ash didn't even get a Mega himself, so maybe they're not as worried about showcasing those things as I thought.

 

[DatsRight]

Generally seasons consist of 45 to 50 episodes. The little airing gap and title change leaves me suspicious if the Kanto arc was the last part of Season One but that's still a bit short for the usual. It's hard to say since it's usually the English dub that distinguishes the seasons.

Even if Pokemon Switch ended up a 2019 release, it would likely still cut Sun and Moon shorter than even BW unless it dragged into a Christmas release. Spring release, it would likely finish just where Decolores started.

 

[Master Pikachu 11]

There is no reason for both of Ash’s starters to not fully evolve, one Decidueye is probably the most popular of the final evolutions for the starters and also Ash is going to get the Z power ring and I highly doubt that they would give him that Z ring just to showcase only Pikachu’s signature Z move. Plus what would be the point of giving Ash both Rowlet and Litten if they don’t intend to have them evolve. I don’t see another character other then Lana that could have a Z power ring. Kiawe could only get it if Turtonator has its own Z move and Lillie could get it only if they give her Nightails and give it its own signature Z move. By giving Ash’s Pokémon all their signature Z moves then there won’t be a single Pokémon that hogs all the spotlight

 

[DatsRight]

Again, Bulbasaur and Squirtle, non-evolved Pokemon that didn't get all the same boosts as their evolved forms, but didn't really feel left out.

SM hasn't really put THAT much emphasis on the Z Moves anyway, not to mention the trainer can likely only use one per battle like in the games (or if not will likely suffer exhaustion from using too many).

I could argue what's the point of not evolving Pikachu given Alolan Raichu has it's own Z Move. There's loads of other ways for them to use the Z Crystals.

 

[GalladeRocks]

Actually from the way things are going if what you just said happens to Litten, then what that would basically mean is that Litten would get shafted, and before you say that it doesn't keep in mind that looking the Alolan Team right now it breaks down like this:

Pikachu has the Electrium-Z and going to be getting the Pikashunium-Z
Rowlet has the Grassium-Z
Lycanroc has the Rockium-Z

basically that's already half of Ash's team that have their own Z-crystal and in Lycanroc's and Rowlet's(if it fully evolves into a Decidueye) case they could even get their own signature Z-crystals. And given that we know that Ash is getting other Z-crystals it's quite likely that Ash's 4th, and 5th(and if they decided to have him catch 3 more pokemon instead of to then his 6th) captures will likely have Z-crystals that match one of their types, and likely if they have evolutions they could easily evolve. So basically at the end of the day what your basically saying is that Ash's Litten should be the only pokemon on his team that doesn't evolve and a Z-crystal that matches it's type basically in all likely hood making it the weakest linked in the team and shafting it.

So doesn't Litten have to have a Z-crystal that matches it's type? No, but given how each of Ash's pokemon on his Alolan team are getting Z-crystals that are matching their types there is really no reason as to think why Litten wouldn't get the Firium-Z, I mean in all honestly if they didn't want to give Ash a Firium-Z then they could have just had Kiawe get Litten to, and no matter how you look at it I don't think it makes any sense for Litten to be the only pokemon on Ash's entire Alolan team not to have a Z-crystal that matches it's type and then on top of that not allowing it to evolve.

I never said Litten SHOULDN’T evolve or get Firium Z, I just said that it didn’t need either in order to justify its place on the team. By all means, I hope it gets both and I think that it probably will. And I was also not comparing it to future captures in what I said. If Ash gets two more captures and they both have Z-Moves that are used primarily for them, then yeah by all means I would find it weird for Ash not to get one for Litten too.

But whether something makes sense or not, Litten could still wind up getting totally shafted in the series. Only time will tell.

There is no reason for both of Ash’s starters to not fully evolve, one Decidueye is probably the most popular of the final evolutions for the starters and also Ash is going to get the Z power ring and I highly doubt that they would give him that Z ring just to showcase only Pikachu’s signature Z move. Plus what would be the point of giving Ash both Rowlet and Litten if they don’t intend to have them evolve. I don’t see another character other then Lana that could have a Z power ring. Kiawe could only get it if Turtonator has its own Z move and Lillie could get it only if they give her Nightails and give it its own signature Z move. By giving Ash’s Pokémon all their signature Z moves then there won’t be a single Pokémon that hogs all the spotlight

XYZ didn’t showcase every single Mega, so there’s no guarantee that this saga will show off every single Z-Move, especially since there are a bunch more coming in USUM. I honestly think it would be a bad move to give ALL of Ash’s Pokemon signature Z-Moves on top of the ones he’s already getting. Maybe they could actually pull it off, but I imagine the process of Ash collecting the specific Z-Stones for six different Pokemon could turn into kind of a mess where they just force all the moves and stones down our throats in quick succession without any kind of balance. But like I said, maybe they actually could do it well, who knows.

But also, Ash getting all the exclusive Z-Moves could make the ones he already has obsolete. We already know the Electrium Z is going to be upgraded/replaced. If he gets Lycanroc’s stone, then the Rockinium Z becomes pointless since no one else on the team can use it. Same thing with hypothetical Ghostinium and Decidueye’s stone, Darkinium and Incineroar’s stone, even Dragonium and Kommo-o’s stone (again, purely hypothetical). I’d rather just see Pikachu, Lycanroc, and either Decidueye or Incineroar’s exclusives while the rest make use of the base Z-Moves so they don’t become utterly pointless.

 

[ShadowForce720]

Again, Bulbasaur and Squirtle, non-evolved Pokemon that didn't get all the same boosts as their evolved forms, but didn't really feel left out.

SM hasn't really put THAT much emphasis on the Z Moves anyway, not to mention the trainer can likely only use one per battle like in the games (or if not will likely suffer exhaustion from using too many).

I could argue what's the point of not evolving Pikachu given Alolan Raichu has it's own Z Move. There's loads of other ways for them to use the Z Crystals.

Except the problem is that in all likely hood what your saying would mean that Litten would be the only member of Ash's Alolan team that doesn't have a Z-crystal of it's type and/or evolve. I could understand if Pikachu and Ash's ace were the only pokemon that had a Z-crystal that matched their type, but that's clearly not going to be the case given how half of Ash's Alolan team already has Z-crystals and the remain 2 or 3 pokemon that Ash is going to catch will likely have Z-crystal that match their own type even if it's exclusive to them, why should Litten be the only one on Ash's entire Alolan team that doesn't have a Z-move of it's type and doesn't evolve.

If Litten winds up being the only pokemon on Ash's Alolan team to neither evolve or have a Z-crystal of it's type then yes it will feel left out and look like it was shafted. You can't compare to Bulbasaur and Squirtle because that was a different situation, where Z-moves didn't exist and it was not like Bulbasaur was the only pokemon on Ash's Kanto team to not have evolved as it had it's buddy Squirtle right there with it. Where as in the Alolan's team case even if there is another pokemon on Ash's Alolan team that doesn't evolve at all but has a evolution it's still going to have a Z-move of it's type, so no matter how you look at it that would mean that Litten would wind up being shafted and left out.

I never said Litten SHOULDN’T evolve or get Firium Z, I just said that it didn’t need either in order to justify its place on the team. By all means, I hope it gets both and I think that it probably will. And I was also not comparing it to future captures in what I said. If Ash gets two more captures and they both have Z-Moves that are used primarily for them, then yeah by all means I would find it weird for Ash not to get one for Litten too.

But whether something makes sense or not, Litten could still wind up getting totally shafted in the series. Only time will tell.

oh okay.

 

[Master Pikachu 11]

Z crystals are the entire reason for Ash participating in the Island challenge and taking on the Kahunas. Squirtle and Bulbasaur didn’t evolve because they gave Ash all three starters. Again there is no reason to not evolve Rowlet and Litten as nobody else has showed up with their evolve forms yet and they still could but again if you are giving Ash the Z power ring so that he can showcase the signature Z moves then he shouldn’t just showcase Pikachu’s only as the other Pokémon need to be able to promote the games. Ash can’t go the entire series only relying on Lycanroc and Pikachu

 

[Genaller]

I’ve said this before but I’m almost certain that Rowlet will evolve all the way into Decidueye since Rowlet is in essence Ash’s “Bird” of the region and those category of Pokémon always reach their final stage. With Litten I’m not too sure but the tragic backstory probably is enough for it to evolve at least once.

 

[nickdt]

Are we actually in Season Two of SM yet or what?

I'm kinda hoping next gen isn't until 2019, otherwise SM will be the shortest series so far, maybe not even reaching two full seasons, unless Pokemon Switch turns out to be an extension of Sun and Moon after all, in which case it might actually end up the longest.

We are still in season one (Since i think season two will start after Christmas when Ula'Ula comes into play).

And don't worry, Gen 8 will not come before 2019, since think about it: They have still two islands to cover, they need to cover the new features of USUM, Christmas break and Summer break with a new movie. There is no way they can complete the anime before 2019 anyways (Especially since Kukui already basically has confirmed the anime will have a league, which has to be covered as well). And don't forget Ash can get four evolutions, needs two more captures (And possible evolutions, unless the capture is a fully evolved mon and a Pokemon that doesn't evolve)

 

[noakai]

ut also, Ash getting all the exclusive Z-Moves could make the ones he already has obsolete. We already know the Electrium Z is going to be upgraded/replaced. If he gets Lycanroc’s stone, then the Rockinium Z becomes pointless since no one else on the team can use it. Same thing with hypothetical Ghostinium and Decidueye’s stone, Darkinium and Incineroar’s stone, even Dragonium and Kommo-o’s stone (again, purely hypothetical). I’d rather just see Pikachu, Lycanroc, and either Decidueye or Incineroar’s exclusives while the rest make use of the base Z-Moves so they don’t become utterly pointless.

I'm actually wondering just how overwhelming him having a z move for every Pokemon is gonna end up being when it comes to actually juggling them. You can only use them once per battle (unless he's gonna get the Rotom power up) so that'll help but he's gonna be juggling what, 6 crystals every battle? He probably won't use them every time but if we get to the League and it's a non stop z move spam it'll probably be a little disappointing. They have to be smart about how and when they use them or else they'll just get annoying.

 

[Satomine Night]

True but one could argue that the 'substance between Midnight Lycanroc and Rockruff' just foreshadowed Midnight Lycanroc playing a part in Rockruff's evolution in SM36. Type:Null and Dusk Lycanroc having something common between them at this point honestly an indication for a rivalry.

Regardless, it's hard to believe that the writers would have a non-ace battle a legendary.

Lycanroc might be Ash's regional ace right now, but that doesn't mean it will remain Ash's regional ace for the entire series. Rowlet and/or Litten might take its place as the ace if/once they evolve. Not counting Pikachu, Lycanroc is Ash's only evolved Pokémon, and it's a new form that's marketing USUM, so it makes perfect sense for the writers to make it the current ace of Ash's Alola team.

Don't get me wrong; I would love to see Lycanroc as the ace. It's one of my favorite Alola Pokémon, and it would be nice to have another regional ace that's not a starter. However, I think it's definitely too early in the series to claim that Lycanroc is the definitive ace.

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, I think people are hyping up Silvally’s power quite a bit more than may be necessary. Yes, it is a Legendary Pokemon ... a distinction given to it by the people who MADE IT, who intended it to be a Pokemon mirroring Arceus and being able to “slay” the Ultra Beasts and FAILED. Obviously Silvally is not Arceus, and it is certainly a powerful Pokemon in its own right, but honestly we have no indication that the Aether Foundation even succeeded in creating it as the “Beast Killer” it was meant to be. So yeah, I have no doubts that Silvally is an incredibly powerful Pokemon who will give Ash a good run for his money in their future battles and who will probably play a role in combatting the Ultra Beasts, but I think people are assigning it a lot more grandeur than it really possesses. This isn’t a Darkrai or Latios or whatever that earned its Legendary title by striking awe in the hearts of humans who witnessed its power; it was given its title by a certain green-cuffed Aether dipwad who spends every waking moment stroking his own ego and would just love to claim that he created a wonderful new Legendary Pokemon in the vein of Arceus itself.

You make a good point. Silvally was declared to be a legendary Pokémon by its creators, who intended for it to mirror Arceus, but that does not mean they succeeded in creating a creature who is on the same level as Arceus or other deity-level legendaries. Silvally is clearly an incredibly powerful Pokémon, but that does not mean it's as grand and powerful as some people might think it is.

 

[Rajas]

I remember Kukui stating before the double battle with Olivia that he sees the blue flame emanating from Ash which is his desire for battle etc I'm guessing and now in the latest episode we have Gladion questioning why Ash was chosen and many other things related to his bond and what makes him special. Do you think SM is finally going to dig a bit deeper into why Ash ends up being the chosen one? Maybe even give nods to his past feats maybe? I would like to see something in depth in relation to this personally.

 

[Zoruagible]

Ash's starters haven't even evolved yet... those expecting Lycanroc to stay the ace are just going to be disappointed. His starters still have room to grow and develop. Especially Litten, the one whose barely been touched on until now.
I heavily doubt Lycanroc is going to stay the ace, there's no reason to give Litten all that backstory and not make him the ace. Charizard, Infernape, and Greninja all have backstories.

 

[Frozocrone]

Ash's starters haven't even evolved yet... those expecting Lycanroc to stay the ace are just going to be disappointed. His starters still have room to grow and develop. Especially Litten, the one whose barely been touched on until now.
I heavily doubt Lycanroc is going to stay the ace, there's no reason to give Litten all that backstory and not make him the ace. Charizard, Infernape, and Greninja all have backstories.

With how prominent Delia has been compared to past sagas (except maybe OS since it's been forever) and Litten and Delia interactions, you might find yourself disappointed. I'd argue that Litten's backstory is pretty much concluded -it lost its pseudo(?) father but found somebody else to enjoy companionship with.

 

[noakai]

Ash's starters haven't even evolved yet... those expecting Lycanroc to stay the ace are just going to be disappointed. His starters still have room to grow and develop. Especially Litten, the one whose barely been touched on until now.
I heavily doubt Lycanroc is going to stay the ace, there's no reason to give Litten all that backstory and not make him the ace. Charizard, Infernape, and Greninja all have backstories.

What do you think the conclusion will be? Charizard and Greninja's arcs included getting stronger or mastering powers and Infernape's was becoming strong enough to beat Paul specifically. Litten's story so far was that it was kind of antisocial and had a close friend and protector who died, and then it warmed up to Ash and decided to go with him. I feel like that part is resolved so they'll have to give it something unconnected to that.

 

[Rajas]

What do you think the conclusion will be? Charizard and Greninja's arcs included getting stronger or mastering powers and Infernape's was becoming strong enough to beat Paul specifically. Litten's story so far was that it was kind of antisocial and had a close friend and protector who died, and then it warmed up to Ash and decided to go with him. I feel like that part is resolved so they'll have to give it something unconnected to that.

They're already planting seeds that Litten has a rivalry with Lycanroc, i assume it also wants to get stronger just like Lycanroc. Pretty sure it will evolve at some point sooner rather than later.