Sun & Moon Pokémon Speculation Thread

[Leonhart]

Jangmo-o line got like barely 5 minutes total, it deserves better.... and who knows if Ryuki will debut at the League or not.

I'd rather see Ryuuki showcase a member of that line than see Satoshi catch one. Ryuuki can debut at practically any point in the next year of SM even before the League, so timing isn't an issue.

 

[nickdt]

There is a lot of difference which apparently you can't perceive. The flock of Pidgey-Pidgeotto always needs Pidgeot to protect themselves, so Pidgeot returning would cause problems. But Greninja won't be needed to help Zygarde anymore when the negative vines are all dealt with. That's the big difference.

And don't tell me that another Pidgeottos can evolve into a Pidgeot, because even then it isn't guaranteed that they will stay protected, they could still face many problems if attacked by a strong Pokemon, so Pidgeot staying is important.

The most important thing is that Pidgeot and Greninja are not even comparable in terms of importance as per as Ash's Pokemon are concerned. Pidgeot is just a Pokemon Ash caught and had for a while, whereas Greninja is one of Ash's regional aces/powerhouses, a Pokemon which recieved the most spotlight in an entire region. Greninja was a far more important Pokemon of Ash's compared to what Pidgeot was, simple as that. And it's quite unlikely that the writers would have one of Ash's regional powerhouses/aces permanently released, since they are very important Pokemon for Ash amongst his Pokemon.

I don't think you are completely understanding what i am saying:

Greninja and Pidgeot is not different, since another Pidgeotto can evolve into Pidgeot and then Ash's Pidgeots role is done. You saying there is no guarantee the other Pidgeots can protect the flock. Same applies for Greninja: There is no guarantee the vines don't come back at some point, meaning that unlike Pidgeot, Greninja is never done with his role.

What determins an ace exactly, care too explain.

 

[Almighty Zard]

Just pointing this out but not every pokemon he has caught, he has showed interest when other members of the species debuted, we've had cases before where he didn't show interest in a pokemon when he originally saw it, but later he wound up showing interesting in a pokemon when he sees that it has a personality he likes, I mean heck he never really showed interest in catch a Aipom when he saw it a few times before heck he didn't even show interest in the Aipom he did wind up eventually catching, until it started following him and stole his hat again and he just decided to go ahead and catch it.

He interacted with an Aipom only one single time in jouto other than battling one in the third movie, (during the episode where he was helping that magician girl, and got turned into a Pikachu at the end) until he ran into the Aipom he caught in the battle frontier, he's run across Cutiefly and Rimbombee quite a few more times than that.

Aipom ain't the best counter example since not only did Ash not keep it in the end, but Dawn didn't either.

So I don't get where people are thinking that oh because he hasn't shown interest in catch a Cutiefly or Rimbombee before in their previous appearances that somehow that means he won't get one, when he could easily see one with a personality he likes and decides to catch it or one could wind up taking a interest in him and wind up following him and ask to join his team and he could catch it that way.

The more times Ash runs across something and doesn't show interest in it, it makes it harder to take it seriously if it was caught and seems down right forced regardless of how it could happen, not to mention is less impactful because there's less of a surprise factor.

This was one of the reasons I was adamant about Ash not getting magmar back during gen 4 (before he got Chimchar off Paul) because he had ran across the thing so many times, giving him one just to fufill a quota would've felt too forced.

What determins an ace exactly, care too explain.

Look at Sceptile, Infernape, and Greninja and right now Lycanroc, and you've got your answer.

not including Kanto, Jouto or Unova cause he didn't really have ace's during those regions.

 

[Golden_Latias]

I'd argue Pikachu was Ash's Kanto ace, but if we're not counting the Orange Islands, Pikachu wasn't exactly up against stiff competition. Bulbasaur was okay but not yet at his prime, Charizard was disobedient, Squirtle sucked until the Orange Islands, and Pidgeotto is easily one of his worst Pokemon period.

Anyway, with it looking more likely that Steenee is evolving in SM82, here's hoping Lana gets something soon. She's way overdue, and at least Mallow is guaranteed some focus in the future since she hasn't caught an Ultra Beast yet. Lillie is guaranteed focus in the future considering she needs a Z-Ring to use that Icium-Z. Lana is guaranteed nothing, technically not even a reunion with the Seafolk.

 

[Zariful]

TBH I never got why people thought Krookodile was Ash’s unova ace. I think it had 4 battles total. It definitely got good development. But I’d say Pignite was more of an ace. Anyways the thing about Greninja and Pidgeot is that Ash still has expressed interest in going back for Pidgeot. Greninja and Ash are connected. I think Greninja could possibly even sense that Ash was in danger if need be. Ash even says that even if they’re separated, they’re still connected. Hell even Goodra could probably come back if need be. There’s still a human there at the swamp. Goodra also opens the door that a released Pokemon can come back and fight with Ash. Ash probably still has the pokeballs for Greninja, Goodra, Pidgeot, Buterfree and Lapras. The former three probably more likely to return though.

 

[Almighty Zard]

I'd argue Pikachu was Ash's Kanto ace, but if we're not counting the Orange Islands, Pikachu wasn't exactly up against stiff competition. Bulbasaur was okay but not yet at his prime, Charizard was disobedient, Squirtle sucked until the Orange Islands, and Pidgeotto is easily one of his worst Pokemon period.

the reason why I don't count Kanto, Jouto or Unova is cause Ash didn't have a consistent "ace" like he did in the other regions. He had some powerhouses, but none of them could really hold the position of an ace like the ones I mentioned.

Right now Lycanroc is pretty much his Alolan Ace, it's been in several important battles, and cleared two grand trials , one of which it did on it's own which is something none of his other pokemon have done, even for a standard trial.

and no I don't count the "Trial" where he had to fight TR and Mimkyu with only Pikachu, cause he didn't get anything for that.

 

[Zoruagible]

TBH I never got why people thought Krookodile was Ash’s unova ace. I think it had 4 battles total. It definitely got good development. But I’d say Pignite was more of an ace. Anyways the thing about Greninja and Pidgeot is that Ash still has expressed interest in going back for Pidgeot. Greninja and Ash are connected. I think Greninja could possibly even sense that Ash was in danger if need be. Ash even says that even if they’re separated, they’re still connected. Hell even Goodra could probably come back if need be. There’s still a human there at the swamp. Goodra also opens the door that a released Pokemon can come back and fight with Ash. Ash probably still has the pokeballs for Greninja, Goodra, Pidgeot, Buterfree and Lapras. The former three probably more likely to return though.

Even the writers themselves consider Krookodile Ash's Unova ace. Pignite was alright but he's no ace.

But yeah, Lycanroc's definitely going to remain the ace.
Torracat's finally becoming a better Pokemon, but I don't see Incineroar stealing the crown from Lycanroc. I see Incineroar being similar to Hawlucha, a great reliable battler but not an ace.

 

[mehmeh1]

He interacted with an Aipom only one single time in jouto other than battling one in the third movie, (during the episode where he was helping that magician girl, and got turned into a Pikachu at the end) until he ran into the Aipom he caught in the battle frontier, he's run across Cutiefly and Rimbombee quite a few more times than that.

Aipom ain't the best counter example since not only did Ash not keep it in the end, but Dawn didn't either.



The more times Ash runs across something and doesn't show interest in it, it makes it harder to take it seriously if it was caught and seems down right forced regardless of how it could happen, not to mention is less impactful because there's less of a surprise factor.

This was one of the reasons I was adamant about Ash not getting magmar back during gen 4 (before he got Chimchar off Paul) because he had ran across the thing so many times, giving him one just to fufill a quota would've felt too forced.



Look at Sceptile, Infernape, and Greninja and right now Lycanroc, and you've got your answer.

not including Kanto, Jouto or Unova cause he didn't really have ace's during those regions.

looking at the pokemon quiz cards during the TF arc in XYZ (I think eps 40 and 41), the producers consider Krookodile as his BW ace and Charizard as his OS ace

 

[345ash-greninja]

I don't think you are completely understanding what i am saying:

Greninja and Pidgeot is not different, since another Pidgeotto can evolve into Pidgeot and then Ash's Pidgeots role is done. You saying there is no guarantee the other Pidgeots can protect the flock. Same applies for Greninja: There is no guarantee the vines don't come back at some point, meaning that unlike Pidgeot, Greninja is never done with his role.

What determins an ace exactly, care too explain.

Nope, it's more like you are not understanding what I'm saying and just desperately trying to stick to your own agenda.

Where did those negative energy vines come from. Oh yeah Zygarde, when Lysandre was manipulating it with its own energy beam. Those vines caused a lot of destruction in Kalos. When Zygarde transformed into Perfect Zygarde, after it destroyed Lysandre's Megalith, it released an energy aura which reversed all the damage done. But despite that, some negative energy vines remained. Zygarde asked for Greninja's help to destroy those remaining negative energy vines, since Greninja has the power to sense the vines.

How can those negative vines come back once Zygarde and Greninja destroyed all those vines? That's nonsense. Once a negative vine is destroyed, it's done for, and doesn't anymore. Are you trying to say that the negative vines have unlimited source of supply? LMAO. Zygarde clearly asked for Greninja's help to deal with the remainder of the negative vines, so it's obvious that at one point, the vines will all be destroyed.

Pidgeot role is never done at all, since it's role is to protect the Pidgey-Pidgeotto. Even if the Pidgeottos evolve into Pidgeot there's absolutely no guarantee that the flock will stay protected, them could be under attack from .a stronger mon. Pidgeot's role is to protect the flock, so it always has to stay with the flock and give its services to protect the flock. Greninja's job wasn't stated anything like protecting Kalos, it's job just was to deal with those negative energy vines, Zygarde asked for Greninja's help in that matter because: Greninja has the power to sense those negative vines while Zygarde doesn't, that's it. It's Zygarde's duty to protect Kalos overall, not Greninja's.

Seriously stop being so desperate to fit your agenda that released Pokemon can't come back for Ash. That's point is outright proven wrong when Goodra, despite being released in XY070, still came back in the Kalos League when Ash needed it for a full team.

Do I even need to explain what a regional ace is? The Pokemon among Ash's regionally caught mons(Pokemon caught in a specific region) which turns out to be most powerful among those regional Pokemon and gets the most limelight/spotlight in that particular region compared to others. Look at Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape for example.

 

[AshxSatoshi]

Seriously stop being so desperate to fit your agenda that released Pokemon can't come back for Ash. That's point is outright proven wrong when Goodra, despite being released in XY070, still came back in the Kalos League when Ash needed it for a full team.

Notice that Goodra came back in the series he was released IN though and immediately went back afterwards. I feel these are important details. I don’t care people want the frog to come back to Ash because I have enough peace knowing it’ll never be apart of his MAIN team again but like I said... I feel like those are important details you left out.

 

[Akkipeddi]

Nope, it's more like you are not understanding what I'm saying and just desperately trying to stick to your own agenda.

Where did those negative energy vines come from. Oh yeah Zygarde, when Lysandre was manipulating it with its own energy beam. Those vines caused a lot of destruction in Kalos. When Zygarde transformed into Perfect Zygarde, after it destroyed Lysandre's Megalith, it released an energy aura which reversed all the damage done. But despite that, some negative energy vines remained. Zygarde asked for Greninja's help to destroy those remaining negative energy vines, since Greninja has the power to sense the vines.

How can those negative vines come back once Zygarde and Greninja destroyed all those vines? That's nonsense. Once a negative vine is destroyed, it's done for, and doesn't anymore. Are you trying to say that the negative vines have unlimited source of supply? LMAO. Zygarde clearly asked for Greninja's help to deal with the remainder of the negative vines, so it's obvious that at one point, the vines will all be destroyed.

Pidgeot role is never done at all, since it's role is to protect the Pidgey-Pidgeotto. Even if the Pidgeottos evolve into Pidgeot there's absolutely no guarantee that the flock will stay protected, them could be under attack from .a stronger mon. Pidgeot's role is to protect the flock, so it always has to stay with the flock and give its services to protect the flock. Greninja's job wasn't stated anything like protecting Kalos, it's job just was to deal with those negative energy vines, Zygarde asked for Greninja's help in that matter because: Greninja has the power to sense those negative vines while Zygarde doesn't, that's it. It's Zygarde's duty to protect Kalos overall, not Greninja's.

Seriously stop being so desperate to fit your agenda that released Pokemon can't come back for Ash. That's point is outright proven wrong when Goodra, despite being released in XY070, still came back in the Kalos League when Ash needed it for a full team.

Do I even need to explain what a regional ace is? The Pokemon among Ash's regionally caught mons(Pokemon caught in a specific region) which turns out to be most powerful among those regional Pokemon and gets the most limelight/spotlight in that particular region compared to others. Look at Charizard, Sceptile, Infernape for example.

Mate, there's no point trying to reason with someone as stubborn as him. Let's not forget he's the same guy who till date still obstinately believes that Alain's MCX cheated because it received Mega Evolution energy and got powered up, when the anime never stated that, and that all the energy went to Zygarde.

In the end, I obviously agree that Greninja's departure was set up to look temporary instead of permanent like Pidgeot, since the former's role has a definite time period in which it can be completed, while Pidgeot's release felt more akin to Butterfree, where it was released to look after a family and protect them. Anyway, let's not forget the power of popularity and fanservice, so even if it's not going to be this series, I think it's quite certain that we will see Greninja back eventually.

 

[Ignition]

This entire thing is based off hypotheticals. Hypothetically, Pidgeot could train the flock to be on its level. Power comes in numbers. (After all, if the Spearow/Fearow want to train up for a counterattack, it's unlikely for Pidgeot to take an entire flock on its own. Thing isn't even that strong.) It wouldn't be hard to say, with how long it's been since its release, Pidgeot's flock has the potential to take care of their selves. It's quite easy to write a return for Pidgeot but obviously it's not on the writers' mind.

Anyway, I'm seeing either a Popplio, Charjabug, or Rowlet focused episode in the next ~10-15 episodes.

 

[Zoruagible]

This entire thing is based off hypotheticals. Hypothetically, Pidgeot could train the flock to be on its level. Power comes in numbers. (After all, if the Spearow/Fearow want to train up for a counterattack, it's unlikely for Pidgeot to take an entire flock on its own. Thing isn't even that strong.) It wouldn't be hard to say, with how long it's been since its release, Pidgeot's flock has the potential to take care of their selves. It's quite easy to write a return for Pidgeot but obviously it's not on the writers' mind.

Anyway, I'm seeing either a Popplio, Charjabug, or Rowlet focused episode in the next ~10-15 episodes.

I'm hoping Charjabug is next.
Considering the fact Charjabug should have evolved during a Ula'Ula arc. Just evolve it already..... we know it's gonna happen at some point. Tired of it being dragged on.

 

[Mega Altaria]

I'm hoping Charjabug is next.
Considering the fact Charjabug should have evolved during a Ula'Ula arc. Just evolve it already..... we know it's gonna happen at some point. Tired of it being dragged on.

Charjabug evolves at Vast Poni Canyon in the games so if Ash and his classmates set off there, it will be an opportunity for Charjabug to evolve. It doesn't evolve anywhere else.

 

[Zoruagible]

Charjabug evolves at Vast Poni Canyon in the games so if Ash and his classmates set off there, it will be an opportunity for Charjabug to evolve. It doesn't evolve anywhere else.

You didn't play Ultra?
It evolves at Blush Mountain now, that's where they would evolve Charjabug

 

[Mega Altaria]

You didn't play Ultra?
It evolves at Blush Mountain now, that's where they would evolve Charjabug

I didn't play too much of it so the only location I could remember where Charjabug evolves is at Vast Poni Canyon. But then if Charjabug evolved there the players who only played Sun and Moon would be confused to find out why Charjabug evolved at Blush Mountain.

 

[Golden_Latias]

If the writers do plan on evolving Popplio at all, I have a feeling they're going to pull a Froakie and evolve it during this hypothetical reunion with the Seafolk everyone seems to think is going to happen while I'a will have Primarina. However, for all we know, the Poni arc could be months from now in spite of Mina debuting soon.

I hate to admit it, but I think Popplio is the least likely of those three to get something in the near future. I think Lana's next focus episode is going to be catching Araquanid simply because Poni could still be a long way off for all we know. And I don't see her going that long and not getting any focus whatsoever until Poni, especially given she's already caught an Ultra Beast and really has nothing guaranteed for the future.

 

[nickdt]

Look at Sceptile, Infernape, and Greninja and right now Lycanroc, and you've got your answer.

not including Kanto, Jouto or Unova cause he didn't really have ace's during those regions.

So what you are saying that impact on the region determines an ace. I have news for you: Talonflame had more impact on the gym run than Greninja had, meaning Talonflame was the ace.

 

[Zoruagible]

I didn't play too much of it so the only location I could remember where Charjabug evolves is at Vast Poni Canyon. But then if Charjabug evolved there the players who only played Sun and Moon would be confused to find out why Charjabug evolved at Blush Mountain.

The anime's promoting Ultra SM now, not SM.
And when we go back to Poni Canyon, Ash and the Dragon Trial is obviously going to be the focus. Charjabug evolving there would quickly get overshadowed. Charjabug evolving on Blush Mountain would not only allow for entirely Soph focus, but also let his cousin get some more screen time as well.

If the writers do plan on evolving Popplio at all, I have a feeling they're going to pull a Froakie and evolve it during this hypothetical reunion with the Seafolk everyone seems to think is going to happen while I'a will have Primarina. However, for all we know, the Poni arc could be months from now in spite of Mina debuting soon.

I hate to admit it, but I think Popplio is the least likely of those three to get something in the near future. I think Lana's next focus episode is going to be catching Araquanid simply because Poni could still be a long way off for all we know. And I don't see her going that long and not getting any focus whatsoever until Poni, especially given she's already caught an Ultra Beast and really has nothing guaranteed for the future.

Yeah, that's what I see happening with Brionne.
Hopefully they let her catch that bug soon.

 

[Mega Altaria]

The anime's promoting Ultra SM now, not SM.
And when we go back to Poni Canyon, Ash and the Dragon Trial is obviously going to be the focus. Charjabug evolving there would quickly get overshadowed. Charjabug evolving on Blush Mountain would not only allow for entirely Soph focus, but also let his cousin get some more screen time as well.

But the location of the evolution wouldn't matter compared to trials introduced in USUM, like the Ribombee trial. But Sophocles can still go to Vast Poni Canyon with Molayne to evolve Charjabug and they don't have to stick with evolving it at Ula'ula several episodes after Ash has defeated Totem Kommo-o, where the focus on it would have already died out. By that, we can also get a better idea what is triggering the weird magnetic field at Vast Poni Canyon, which would have made way better sense at Blush Mountain because of a power plant being there.