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Sun & Moon Pokémon Speculation Thread

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dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
Honestly I loved how they handled the Lana and Eevee episode, because they made it clear that Ash never had a chance to begin with.

Unfortunately that's not what happened.

They marketed the hell out of Eevee, they made it clear it was supposed to be something important, even getting special preview scenes in the previous episodes.

But then they suddenly gave to Lana, who literally had no reason to be given one, with what because Vaporeon is all the rage now?

It just literally doesn't make sense.

Don't get me wrong, the people who though the preview was misleading were way off here, but PRIOR to the preview? No.

You don't get to argue hindsight, except for criticizing people who were criticizing people about the preview, of course it "makes all the sense" now that its absolutely confirmed, but don't act like it made sense before let alone made sense even when the preview came out.

In fact the preview was such a horrible pointless mess, it's like what was even the point of everything? Shoving Eevee in foreground of the poster, making a big deal about the messy hair Eevee.

What was the fact that Eevee traveled in the water supposed to be some subtle foreshadowing of it being caught by Lana who was water Pokemon? As if that makes any remote sense considering there'd have been no reason for it to travel any other way to linking it to another character if another character was going to get it.

Sure, I do get that Lana could've used another Pokemon, fine, so did Mallow and Lillie but the issue, why Eevee? Why add another Eevee to the cast, and why give it to one of the girls (ignoring that the girls literally only had one Pokemon as opposed to the boys which at least have 2).

What absolute purpose could this Eevee really serve by being with Lana over anyone else, and especially just because of Let's go Eevee, which only the symbolism will matter, because I'd fail to see why Eevee would even have anything else other than the water type move, and it evolving into Vaporeon.

I just fail to see why anyone on the anime executive team, thought this made any sense from a marketing perspective. Another DAMN Eevee, likely to evolve into Vaporeon (which doesn't market anything except Lana's specialty), and Eevee ends up being with ANOTHER girl.

It's so overused at this point, it's like why even bother with as much marketing as if it was just going to end up as Lana.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Eevee will evolve into a brand new water type Eeveelution perhaps something like an Alola form evolution that's part water, but honestly I can't see the point. It's just wasted on Lana, and seems like Lana only got the Eevee because the Eevee Trainer Dart landed on Lana, because I literally cannot imagine a conversation of this:

Executive A- Let's go Eevee, huh? Who are we going to give Eevee to?
Executive B- Lana, she needs a new Pokemon, she has a starter, she has a Z-ring, she in those terms is the most obvious choice.
Executive A- Brilliant!

Well, except for the fact it isn't, it just doesn't make sense, if Lana was going to get an Eevee, then why the hell did they make such a big deal about it when Serena's own Eevee didn't get nearly as marketed, what was the point of going through ALL of what just happened and then basically shrug your shoulders "LANA" because "WHY NOT?"

I just....don't know.....anymore.

I dunno, I just looked at that scene in the opening again, and it kinda looks like its head is turned toward Lana and Popplio. Also, didn't the offical description for it on the TV Tokyo site or wherever mention it really likes the sea?

There were hints about it going to Lana, too. Just many jumped to the assumption that it was going to be Ash because of the poster, LGPE hype, and because apparently Ash needs Pokemon more than Lana.

Lana had not had a single team change throughout the entirety of the series and hasn't had a non-filler focus episode since SM40. And Ash needs a Pokemon more than she does. And don't even bring up the Alolan League, because it may not even be a 6-on-6 League, for all we know.

Ash is LITERALLY (along with Pikachu) the face of Pikachu.

And he JUST released a Pokemon that had NO purpose on his team, indicating his last TRUE capture was Litten, and we JUST had an episode that basically SHOVED the idea of ROWLET was NEVER going to evolve down our throat.

You're damn right Ash deserved and needed a Pokemon more than Lana. Look take away ANY of those filler episodes that meant absolutely nothing, and give Ash some random Pokemon to make up for everything to happen, then yes I wouldn't have given two craps about who Eevee was going to go to.

Also how about they don't wait until the damn preview to tell us WHO was going to get Eevee.

I mean at least in XY we had both NOIBAT and EEVEE, and we knew Serena was likely to get Eevee, so Ash who just needlessly released Goodra could at least catch Noibat.

But we didn't even get that this time, just a bunch of needless stagnant team changes from Ash since Litten evolved which I'm pretty sure was before Ash needlessly caught Poipole.
 
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1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
Unfortunately that's not what happened.

They marketed the hell out of Eevee, they made it clear it was supposed to be something important, even getting special preview scenes in the previous episodes.

But then they suddenly gave to Lana, who literally had no reason to be given one, with what because Vaporeon is all the rage now?

It just literally doesn't make sense.

Don't get me wrong, the people who though the preview was misleading were way off here, but PRIOR to the preview? No.

You don't get to argue hindsight, except for criticizing people who were criticizing people about the preview, of course it "makes all the sense" now that its absolutely confirmed, but don't act like it made sense before let alone made sense even when the preview came out.

In fact the preview was such a horrible pointless mess, it's like what was even the point of everything? Shoving Eevee in foreground of the poster, making a big deal about the messy hair Eevee.

What was the fact that Eevee traveled in the water supposed to be some subtle foreshadowing of it being caught by Lana who was water Pokemon? As if that makes any remote sense considering there'd have been no reason for it to travel any other way to linking it to another character if another character was going to get it.

Sure, I do get that Lana could've used another Pokemon, fine, so did Mallow and Lillie but the issue, why Eevee? Why add another Eevee to the cast, and why give it to one of the girls (ignoring that the girls literally only had one Pokemon as opposed to the boys which at least have 2).

What absolute purpose could this Eevee really serve by being with Lana over anyone else, and especially just because of Let's go Eevee, which only the symbolism will matter, because I'd fail to see why Eevee would even have anything else other than the water type move, and it evolving into Vaporeon.

I just fail to see why anyone on the anime executive team, thought this made any sense from a marketing perspective. Another DAMN Eevee, likely to evolve into Vaporeon (which doesn't market anything except Lana's specialty), and Eevee ends up being with ANOTHER girl.

It's so overused at this point, it's like why even bother with as much marketing as if it was just going to end up as Lana.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Eevee will evolve into a brand new water type Eeveelution perhaps something like an Alola form evolution that's part water, but honestly I can't see the point. It's just wasted on Lana, and seems like Lana only got the Eevee because the Eevee Trainer Dart landed on Lana, because I literally cannot imagine a conversation of this:

Executive A- Let's go Eevee, huh? Who are we going to give Eevee to?
Executive B- Lana, she needs a new Pokemon, she has a starter, she has a Z-ring, she in those terms is the most obvious choice.
Executive A- Brilliant!

Well, except for the fact it isn't, it just doesn't make sense, if Lana was going to get an Eevee, then why the hell did they make such a big deal about it when Serena's own Eevee didn't get nearly as marketed, what was the point of going through ALL of what just happened and then basically shrug your shoulders "LANA" because "WHY NOT?"

I just....don't know.....anymore.



Ash is LITERALLY (along with Pikachu) the face of Pikachu.

And he JUST released a Pokemon that had NO purpose on his team, indicating his last TRUE capture was Litten, and we JUST had an episode that basically SHOVED the idea of ROWLET was NEVER going to evolve down our throat.

You're damn right Ash deserved and needed a Pokemon more than Lana. Look take away ANY of those filler episodes that meant absolutely nothing, and give Ash some random Pokemon to make up for everything to happen, then yes I wouldn't have given two craps about who Eevee was going to go to.

Also how about they don't wait until the damn preview to tell us WHO was going to get Eevee.

I mean at least in XY we had both NOIBAT and EEVEE, and we knew Serena was likely to get Eevee, so Ash who just needlessly released Goodra could at least catch Noibat.

As I said above, I liked how the writers made it clear that in THIS EPISODE, they made it clear that Ash never had a chance to begin with. Ash never even attempted to bond with it or make any hints to wanting it. There was no competition, it wasn't like Togepi for instance.

This was a case of people taking literally any hints and running with it and then damning anyone who disagreed.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
As I said above, I liked how the writers made it clear that in THIS EPISODE, they made it clear that Ash never had a chance to begin with. Ash never even attempted to bond with it or make any hints to wanting it. There was no competition, it wasn't like Togepi for instance.

This was a case of people taking literally any hints and running with it and then damning anyone who disagreed.


AGAIN, of course this is hindsight. Of course the episode and especially the preview, which is my POINT.

You're criticizing people WHO though it would go to Ash PRIOR to this episode. No one could really watch episode or even the preview and think "Yeah Ash is more likely than Lana to get the Eevee?"

But prior to the preview? When we didn't know WHAT was going on with Eevee and WE didn't know who it would go to.

Maybe if they were upfront about this whole thing, maybe all of this could've been avoided.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
AGAIN, of course this is hindsight. Of course the episode and especially the preview, which is my POINT.

You're criticizing people WHO though it would go to Ash PRIOR to this episode. No one could really watch episode or even the preview and think "Yeah Ash is more likely than Lana to get the Eevee?"

But prior to the preview? When we didn't know WHAT was going on with Eevee and WE didn't know who it would go to.

Maybe if they were upfront about this whole thing, maybe all of this could've been avoided.

No, you could of wanted Ash to get him, it's perfectly fine. What's not fine is attacking people who thought otherwise. So many people outright called me and others out for speculating against a done deal when it wasn't even close to being done. Not saying you did, btw.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
No, you could of wanted Ash to get him, it's perfectly fine. What's not fine is attacking people who thought otherwise. So many people outright called me and others out for speculating against a done deal when it wasn't even close to being done. Not saying you did, btw.

I must've missed those, because the majority of posts I saw were saying that for Lana it wasn't a done deal, and the preview could be misleading along with other saying they didn't want Ash to get it.

But I do know of generally what you're talking about, people criticizing others for speculating about Ash with Incineroar.

It really is extremely difficult to differentiate when someone is like "THIS WILL HAPPEN" to "I THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN" without always explicitly making sure you put "think" "assume" "speculating" in the actual posts.

Generally I would prefer if people would generally take the "I think this will happen" in regards to any of these posts rather than assuming the person meant "I KNOW THIS WILL HAPPEN, I'm RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG" unless of course explicitly written as such.
 

1rkhachatryan

Call me Robert guys
I must've missed those, because the majority of posts I saw were saying that for Lana it wasn't a done deal, and the preview could be misleading along with other saying they didn't want Ash to get it.

But I do know of generally what you're talking about, people criticizing others for speculating about Ash with Incineroar.

It really is extremely difficult to differentiate when someone is like "THIS WILL HAPPEN" to "I THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN" without always explicitly making sure you put "think" "assume" "speculating" in the actual posts.

Generally I would prefer if people would generally take the "I think this will happen" in regards to any of these posts rather than assuming the person meant "I KNOW THIS WILL HAPPEN, I'm RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG" unless of course explicitly written as such.

No, this was months back lol, when we literally only had the poster to go on, before even the opening and ending came out. Certain people on this forum were outright acting like Ash was confirmed to get Eevee and shaming anyone who thought otherwise.
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
Honestly all this reminds me of back in the beginning with Sun and Moon, ash caught a Grubbin in the OP only to battle and fail to catch one in the actual anime. You could argue Sun and Moon does a lot of misleading when it comes to what Ash will add to his family. At this point I'm wondering if Torracat will even evolve. If people think the concept art is an indicator, for all we know it could be Kukui's
 

World Turtle

Well-Known Member
As far as the pet theory goes if you're going to go by it I suggest focusing on common/domesticated pets and not "exotic" ones. Also, be general owls, tigers, and wolves would fall under exotic (and not domesticated).

So Bird , Cat, and Dog with Pikachu as the Mouse.

Horse (Mudsdale)
Lizard (Jangmo-o, formerly Poipole I guess), basically if you can go to Petco and buy a pet lizard it probably counts. Same with spiders (Dewpider).

I will note from what I've researched in Japan/Asia pet insects/spiders (Dewpider) are far more common then in the west. They even battle with them.
 

Blaze Master X

The Fallen Hero

Zoruagible

Lover of underrated characters
Honestly all this reminds me of back in the beginning with Sun and Moon, ash caught a Grubbin in the OP only to battle and fail to catch one in the actual anime. You could argue Sun and Moon does a lot of misleading when it comes to what Ash will add to his family. At this point I'm wondering if Torracat will even evolve. If people think the concept art is an indicator, for all we know it could be Kukui's

No.
Grubbin is a completely different case. In fact more people were on side of it not happening as Grubbin is you know, Electric type?

New toys for early next year, looks like Lana's starter is evolving and Sophocles will get Vikavolt soon:

https://twitter.com/Paulrobertryan/status/1069457939365281792

Maybe Guzma if we're lucky.

A team change for Soph is much overdue. Same with Kiawe and Ash.....
But they damn well better be giving Mallow something soon if Lana's getting yet another team change. -.-
 

Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
I did say that I feel that the league would be a friendly school tournament and might happen around April/May. If these toys are really indicating evolutions for Lana and Sophocles, I don't think my theory of the classmates getting last minute power boosts to compete in this league might be that ridiculous. Lana with Brionne and Eevee, Sophocles with Togedemaru and Vikavolt, Kiawe with Turtonator and Marowak. Only Lillie and Mallow lack second Pokémon, so Lillie might get a second Pokémon (either Jigglypuff or she might borrow Clefable since the anime tried to force the point as to how close they were). As for Mallow, I'm not sure (maybe Oranguru randomly teams up with her). Add in Hau, Gladion and Illima, and you have enough people for a mini league (cause I'm definitely not expecting a grand league like other regions with 128 contestants). 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 for the early rounds and later 3 vs 3 or max 4 vs 4.
 

04n70n10

Well-Known Member
I did say that I feel that the league would be a friendly school tournament and might happen around April/May. If these toys are really indicating evolutions for Lana and Sophocles, I don't think my theory of the classmates getting last minute power boosts to compete in this league might be that ridiculous. Lana with Brionne and Eevee, Sophocles with Togedemaru and Vikavolt, Kiawe with Turtonator and Marowak. Only Lillie and Mallow lack second Pokémon, so Lillie might get a second Pokémon (either Jigglypuff or she might borrow Clefable since the anime tried to force the point as to how close they were). As for Mallow, I'm not sure (maybe Oranguru randomly teams up with her). Add in Hau, Gladion and Illima, and you have enough people for a mini league (cause I'm definitely not expecting a grand league like other regions with 128 contestants). 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 for the early rounds and later 3 vs 3 or max 4 vs 4.

I think you're... right! Really, a GOOD point. Many things in SM have a "sense" now. Kukui is from the school afterall (even other characters like Ilma...) and it's more simple to do a pseudo ""league"" at the school.... and everyone will take part. 1v1, 2v2 or max 3v3 matches. Probably the whole point to have a School setting in SM is only for this.

It's not so impossible for Ash to win (LOL) such competition, take in every case the graduation at the school, thank and goodbye to all for generation 8 land (or Kanto).
 
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I did say that I feel that the league would be a friendly school tournament and might happen around April/May. If these toys are really indicating evolutions for Lana and Sophocles, I don't think my theory of the classmates getting last minute power boosts to compete in this league might be that ridiculous. Lana with Brionne and Eevee, Sophocles with Togedemaru and Vikavolt, Kiawe with Turtonator and Marowak. Only Lillie and Mallow lack second Pokémon, so Lillie might get a second Pokémon (either Jigglypuff or she might borrow Clefable since the anime tried to force the point as to how close they were). As for Mallow, I'm not sure (maybe Oranguru randomly teams up with her). Add in Hau, Gladion and Illima, and you have enough people for a mini league (cause I'm definitely not expecting a grand league like other regions with 128 contestants). 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 for the early rounds and later 3 vs 3 or max 4 vs 4.

Oh wow, this actually sounds plausible. This would suck worse than the Kalos league ending. It would be Sinnoh>>Hoenn>Johto>>Kanto>Kalos>Unova>>>Alola
 

Evanibble

Well-Known Member
There were hints about it going to Lana, too. Just many jumped to the assumption that it was going to be Ash because of the poster, LGPE hype, and because apparently Ash needs Pokemon more than Lana.

Lana had not had a single team change throughout the entirety of the series and hasn't had a non-filler focus episode since SM40. And Ash needs a Pokemon more than she does. And don't even bring up the Alolan League, because it may not even be a 6-on-6 League, for all we know.

It was pretty fair to assume it might have gone to Ash and, in hindsight, Lana as well, but the latter not as much (as in, I didn't see many people pointing it out). It was fair to assume that Ash needs another capture (or two) because he hasn't gone through a region without catching five Pokemon. Lana needed a team change, absolutely, I guess we just figured it'd be Popplio evolving instead of her actually capturing something. Not that i'm mad about it, I think it suits Lana fairly well. Ash and Lana were far better fits for this Eevee than, say, Kiawe (whom some people speculated might get the Eevee, or...Mallow, for whatever reason).

As for the league, you're right we really don't know how that'll end up, so it's fair to believe that Ash should go there with a full team. But so far the leagues have included full battles and we don't have much reason to believe that'll change in SM until there's confirmation that it will (that, and the SM anime has a tendency to do things differently, but that's really not the best argument out there).

There's a difference between speculating and saying it is confirmed and anyone who thinks otherwise is crazy, again, not talking about you. Multiple people attacked me and several others for simply saying that Ash getting Eevee was not confirmed and there was nothing outright hinting at it either. Eevee never directly interacted with Ash in anything.

I myself never expected Lana to get Eevee but after watching the episode and how it was handled, I'm really glad she did.

There absolutely is a difference, i'll give you that. I think it wasn't fair for people to point out that it's absolutely confirmed, but it's also not fair to say it's absolutely not going to happen, either. I'm sorry you felt attacked. I wish discussion could be more civil sometimes.

Still need to see the episode but I'll take your word for it.
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
I'm really happy myself that Lana caught it, and Ash didn't. Eevee has a typical drama queen like screenhogging personality as I previously said, which was even more proven in this episode. It's a typical cute and comical like Pokemon which a has very playful like personality, interacting with others all the time in some way or other, going through a lot of slapstick stuff and in the process acting playful/cute/comical all the time. These kind of Pokemon with a personality like this, as seen before in cases of Dawn's Piplup and Ash's Oshawott, tend to hog tons of screentime with their comedic and cute expressions all the time. Ash definitely didn't need a potential screenhogger like this at this point of time in his team, that definitely would've affected Rowlet and Torracat quite badly, taking away the focus and spotlight away from them which they really deserve and need now, because they have been quite underdeveloped as of now, especially Rowlet. Being an Ash Pokemon would've quite likely meant that Eevee would've gotten way screentime and focus.
As I said in the SM99 episode thread, "drama queen" is not the right phrase to describe Nagisa. A drama queen is someone who overreacts to situations or reacts in a melodramatic way (and I don't mean purely for the sake of comedy). Nagisa may be easily excitable and a little rambunctious, but it's far from being a drama queen. As you said yourself, it's cute and comedic. It's not melodramatic.

I won't disagree, though, about Nagisa's personality being a "screen-hogging" personality. However, it's not the only Pokémon with that type of personality. Rowlet, Marowak, and Togedemaru (especially the last) all have personalities that could easily hog screen time, but the writers haven't really used their personalities to the fullest. So, there's a chance that, after awhile, Nagisa may not be as much of a screen time hogger when it's not the main focus.
 

DatsRight

Well-Known Member
I did say that I feel that the league would be a friendly school tournament and might happen around April/May. If these toys are really indicating evolutions for Lana and Sophocles, I don't think my theory of the classmates getting last minute power boosts to compete in this league might be that ridiculous. Lana with Brionne and Eevee, Sophocles with Togedemaru and Vikavolt, Kiawe with Turtonator and Marowak. Only Lillie and Mallow lack second Pokémon, so Lillie might get a second Pokémon (either Jigglypuff or she might borrow Clefable since the anime tried to force the point as to how close they were). As for Mallow, I'm not sure (maybe Oranguru randomly teams up with her). Add in Hau, Gladion and Illima, and you have enough people for a mini league (cause I'm definitely not expecting a grand league like other regions with 128 contestants). 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 for the early rounds and later 3 vs 3 or max 4 vs 4.

The biggest issue I can see there is that the experience difference is REALLY obvious this series, meaning most of the early battles at least are either going to be very quick or a farce. Granted it's no different from Kalos skipping most of the early parts.

It would be very hard to buy into the idea of any of the companions besides maybe Kiawe even challenging Ash with next to zero experience and training under their belt. And if one of them ELIMINATED him outright, it would probably top the Unova league as a laughing stock.

The one probability is maybe with your suggested team for Mallow, Tsareena has mostly evolved and fought on her own and Oranguru is an OP wild Pokemon, so it might end up like the Iris/Dragonite arc where she realises she didn't win on her own merit.

Alternatively, Ash not being challenged is the whole point. Imagine if this was by some miracle the league he won. Not in some glorious battle of unstoppable forces however, but kicking down Lillie and her one little baby Vulpix. Imagine how tainted that "accomplishment" would be to him.

Granted I'd rather SM didn't make a plot just to excuse having a whole tournament of lame battles, and the league at least had a good run of them to make it enjoyable and bring up the series' tally a bit better.
 
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Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
The biggest issue I can see there is that the experience difference is REALLY obvious this series, meaning most of the early battles at least are either going to be very quick or a farce. Granted it's no different from Kalos skipping most of the early parts.

It would be very hard to buy into the idea of any of the companions besides maybe Kiawe even challenging Ash with next to zero experience and training under their belt. And if one of them ELIMINATED him outright, it would probably top the Unova league as a laughing stock.

The one probability is maybe with your suggested team for Mallow, Tsareena has mostly evolved and fought on her own and Oranguru is an OP wild Pokemon, so it might end up like the Iris/Dragonite arc where she realises she didn't win on her own merit.

Alternatively, Ash not being challenged is the whole point. Imagine if this was by some miracle the league he won. Not in some glorious battle of unstoppable forces however, but kicking down Lillie and her one little baby Vulpix. Imagine how tainted that "accomplishment" would be to him.

Granted I'd rather SM didn't make a plot just to excuse having a whole tournament of lame battles, and the league at least had a good run of them to make it enjoyable and bring up the series' tally a bit better.

Do you think I enjoy the scenario I wrote? Absolutely not, cause I know it's rubbish, but that's what SM is capable of, and this whole 'league' that Kukui is talking about sounds like a huge farce since for an inaugural league, there's no way he'll be able to garner 128 participants. With only 4 Pokémon on Ash's team, and in general, the lack of trainers and battles in Alola, they're going to have to dig out some participants from somewhere, so I can just see Kukui allowing everyone to battle. And to forcefully make the classmates seem slightly more competitive, they might receive some power ups. Regardless of what happens, this league feels tainted even before its beginning, since it seems like the idea sprung out of nowhere, and has no relation to the Island Challenge, making the latter feel like a complete waste of time so far (the fact that Kiawe was fired up about competing already tells us that it's not necessary to do the Island Challenge for this league).
 

knightwolf09

Well-Known Member
So far it only seems like the important battles for the league will just be with Gladion, Hau, Masked Royal, and the Zeraora trainer. We know Gladion has at least 3 pokemon, Hau seems to have one but he might have more we haven't seen, Masked Royal has 2 Incineroar and Barviary, And it seems the Zeraora only has him. I have no clu how this league will work. Maybe it will just be 1 v 1 battles, letting everyone fight with mainly their partner pokemon. I which case this league might be very short. Still holding chips that the Zeraora guy will win it all cause he gives me Tobias/Alain vibes.
 
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