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Sun & Moon, your thoughts now vs first thoughts

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
The league is the only climax that makes me feel emptier than when I went into it. The last time I've had a sense of catharsis was Paul's battle.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Please keep Litten unevolved or in it's middle stage; we don't need another Ash Greninja situation :/
Never understood why Ash's starter Pokemon fully evolving, getting great development and becoming a powerhouse is a wrong thing.

What hipocrisy. You question my opinion and 345ash-greninja's but don't question Pokegirl Fan's and Hunter's. Why? Oh right, because you agree with them.

You are not the best person to talk about double standards.

Agreed.

SM fillers, like Alolan Raichu episode or the Sandygast episode were pretty entertaining to watch, but the SM006, Rotomdex focus episode and the last episode, were....boring as hell.
 
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U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
Never understood why Ash's starter Pokemon fully evolving, getting great development and becoming a real powerhouse is a wrong thing,but well you're the one who always hates it when Ash gets focus and spotlight, makes progression, shows competence, so.....it's no surprise. The same reason why you hate XY.

Good development and power are not connected to each other. If that was the case, then all Fan Fic Mary Sues are the greatest characters in history.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Good development and power are not connected to each other. If that was the case, then all Fan Fic Mary Sues are the greatest characters in history.

Good development and power both happened in the case of Greninja. And of Ash's starters, the fully evolved and most powerful starters are the most developed.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
I think in a series like this using filler is rather disingenuous, I using something less "concrete" like calling an episode tone wasting would be more apt, because those can still be used for episodes even if they're not technically filler
 

Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
What hipocrisy. You question my opinion and 345ash-greninja's but don't question Pokegirl Fan's and Hunter's. Why? Oh right, because you agree with them.

You are not the best person to talk about double standards.
Look, I don't care if you prefer XY's fillers over SM's. The problem is, as lemoncatpower said, both you and 345 were treating your opinions as if they're fact. XY fillers are objectively superior to SM's fillers, and anyone who disagrees with that opinion is wrong.

Also, FTR, I don't have as glowing of an opinion on SM fillers as the others. There were two I enjoyed (SM16 and SM28), one I didn't enjoy (SM06), and the rest I found decent. Nothing spectacular, but the anime's done worse than those before.

You are not understanding. The problem is not there are episodes like this, the problem is most of the series being episodes like that. Out of 28 episodes, just 13 were plot-focused episodes.
Where the hell are you getting 13 out of 28 from?

/sigh

Didn't think I'd have to do this, but here goes:
- SM 01&02: Generic regional introductory episodes, introduces Kukui, Ash's classmates, and Tapu Koko, Ash gets his Z-Ring, yadda yadda.
- SM03: Team Rocket arrives in Alola and introduction RotomDex. Episode mostly focuses on that.
- SM04: Rowlet capture. Episode pretty much focuses entirely on Rowlet.
- SM05: We learn about Lana's goal and how she met Popplio. I could see how one could find this filler-ish, but eh. The episode mostly focuses on her goal and fleshing out her character anyway, so I don't see the issue here.
- SM06: Filler
- SM07: Establishes the relationship between Ash and Litten and also introduces Stoutland. Episode focuses on Litten.
- SM08: Lillie gets to take care of the egg, and she is able to touch it at the end of the episode.
- SM09: Introduction to Hala and Totem Gumshoos battle
- SM10: Ash vs. Hala
- SM11: Introduction to Kiawe's family, and we get backstory on him and his goal. Aside from some slapstick moments with Ash, episode pretty much focuses on him
- SM12: James catches Mareanie. Episode mostly focuses on Team Rocket.
- SM13: Yeah, I'll give you this one
- SM14: Shiron hatches, and Lillie bonds with it. Essential
- SM15: Rockruff capture. Essential
- SM16: Filler
- SM17: Filler unless RotomDex's video camera comes in handy in the future
- SM18: We learn about Mallow's goal, and Bounsweet evolves. And no, I don't give you this one. I wouldn't consider this one a filler even if Bounsweet didn't evolve for the same reason I don't consider Lana or Kiawe's episodes filler.
- SM19: Rematch with Tapu Koko and some slight Sophocles focus. I can see where some would consider this filler, but considering Ash was talking about battling Tapu Koko throughout the episode, I'd say the focus on the battle was still there.
- SM20: Filler unless Ash catches that Wimpod or that encounter with Tapu Lele leads to something
- SM21: Litten capture and Stoutland's death. Essential without a doubt.
- SM22: I give you this one, too. This one would be filler if Litten didn't master Fire Fang
- SM23: Filler unless RotomDex's voice function plays a role in the future
- SM24: Filler
- SM25: Team Rocket learns about Z-Moves and wins their own Z-Crystal. Essential.
- SM26: I give you this one, too, although I don't mind Sophocles catching Charjabug here. It's a friggin' Charjabug, it's not exactly the most interesting Pokemon in the world, and I don't think an episode focusing on Sophocles catching one would have been interesting anyway
- SM27: Introduction to Gladion and some backstory. Sucks that TR interrupted the battle, but that doesn't change the fact that it's essential.
- SM28: Filler
So yeah, I don't see where you're getting the idea that most of the episodes have been these filler-ish.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
Look, I don't care if you prefer XY's fillers over SM's. The problem is, as lemoncatpower said, both you and 345 were treating your opinions as if they're fact. XY fillers are objectively superior to SM's fillers, and anyone who disagrees with that opinion is wrong.

Also, FTR, I don't have as glowing of an opinion on SM fillers as the others. There were two I enjoyed (SM16 and SM28), one I didn't enjoy (SM06), and the rest I found decent. Nothing spectacular, but the anime's done worse than those before.

So yeah, I don't see where you're getting the idea that most of the episodes have been these filler-ish.
Yeah, but Hunter and Pokegirl Fan also spoke as if their opinions were facts. Pokegirl Fan stated that XY fillers were unbearable to see. And you did not tell them it was just their opinion.

Yeah, 13 out of 28. I talked about episodes entirely focused on the plot, not episodes with few moments like the ones you mentioned

SM001-004
SM007
SM008
SM009
SM010
SM014
SM015
SM019
SM021
SM027
 
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Caseydia

Ace Trainer
Please keep Litten unevolved or in it's middle stage; we don't need another Ash Greninja situation :/

There is nothing wrong with evolving unless they play favorites and have the others be fodder and nothing else. Hoenn was the best example of all his Pokemon from the same region done well.
 

Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
Yeah, but Hunter and Pokegirl Fan also spoke as if their opinions were facts. Pokegirl Fan stated that XY fillers were unbearable to see. And you did not tell them it was just their opinion.

Yeah, 13 out of 28. I talked about episodes entirely focused on the plot, not episodes with few moments like the ones you mentioned

SM001-004
SM007
SM008
SM009
SM010
SM014
SM015
SM019
SM021
SM027
Partially because you already did and partially because, while I don't consider them unbearable, I do prefer SM's fillers because the writers have shown they're willing to experiment and deviate from the usual CotD formula, whereas XY's fillers just stuck to that formula and thus, I found many of them kind of same-y and forgettable. But that's just my personal opinion.

The second point is just something we'll have to agree to disagree on probably to everybody's relief. Looking at your list, you clearly believe that the main characters are the only ones that matter, that Kiawe, Mallow, Lana, and Sophocles's stories are largely unimportant, favor plot-oriented storytelling, and are probably watching this anime to see Ash win a League. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just a different preference for a different kind of storytelling. It's just not one I agree with (I love world building, I feel the characters should always come before the plot no matter how important they are, and while I'm convinced I'm the only one who feels this way, I couldn't care less if Ash never wins a League because that's not why I'm watching the anime). That's all there is to it.
 

Jeal

Well-Known Member
Partially because you already did and partially because, while I don't consider them unbearable, I do prefer SM's fillers because the writers have shown they're willing to experiment and deviate from the usual CotD formula, whereas XY's fillers just stuck to that formula and thus, I found many of them kind of same-y and forgettable. But that's just my personal opinion.

The second point is just something we'll have to agree to disagree on probably to everybody's relief. Looking at your list, you clearly believe that the main characters are the only ones that matter, that Kiawe, Mallow, Lana, and Sophocles's stories are largely unimportant, favor plot-oriented storytelling, and are probably watching this anime to see Ash win a League. There is nothing wrong with that, it's just a different preference for a different kind of storytelling. It's just not one I agree with (I love world building, I feel the characters should always come before the plot no matter how important they are, and while I'm convinced I'm the only one who feels this way, I couldn't care less if Ash never wins a League because that's not why I'm watching the anime). That's all there is to it.

I'ts not my fault. SM's episodes focusing on classmates were boring, and did not moved the plot. The only ones that I care about are Lillie and Mallow(although the Mallow episode was boring, I like her personality). Although I want Ash to win a league, I see the anime more for fun than watching Ash win a league.
 

Spyro39

Well-Known Member
I'ts not my fault. SM's episodes focusing on classmates were boring, and did not moved the plot. The only ones that I care about are Lillie and Mallow(although the Mallow episode was boring, I like her personality). Although I want Ash to win a league, I see the anime more for fun than watching Ash win a league.

Your opinion, your choice, your preference, and I'm not going to say you not liking SM episodes focusing on classmates or are just boring in general is wrong because I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with you or Golden_Latias. You should expect people to disagree with your views on what is filler and what is not. You just got to learn that not everyone is going to share your views nor are they ever going to change theirs, so stop trying so hard to get people to see the anime in the way you do. Also, just because someone doesn't say "in my opinion", or "I liked", and "I didn't like" doesn't always mean what they're trying to say is a fact. I didn't need Pokegirl Fan~ to say those words to know that her saying "XY fillers were unbearable" was her opinion.
 
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345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
Your opinion, your choice, your preference, and I'm not going to say you not liking SM episodes focusing on classmates or are just boring in general is wrong because I respect your opinion even if I don't agree with you. You should expect people to disagree with your views on what is filler and what is not. You just got to learn that not everyone is going to share your views nor are they ever going to change theirs. Also, just because someone doesn't say "in my opinion", or "I liked", and "I didn't like" doesn't mean what they're trying to say is a fact. I didn't need Pokegirl Fan~ to say those words to know that her saying "XY fillers were unbearable" was her opinion.

Yet you pointed out the same thing in my post in the other thread when Satoshi and Touko fixed my post. :)

Anyway, I do prefer early XY fillers more than the SM fillers so far, but I'm not going to say that all the SM fillers were bad. In a filler there has to be something entertaining which interests the viewers/keeps the viewers on their toes, for example, the pancake race in SM013. The SM fillers sometimes tend to overdo the slapstick and thus, some fillers really seem like episodes of Tom and Jerry, like SM017.
 
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Frozocrone

Miraculous!
^ If SM ends up being half as good as Tom and Jerry I'm going to have a blast enjoying this series.
 

Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
You may have found them boring, but personally, I liked Lana, Kiawe, and Sophocles's second episode. All of those episodes did a nice job fleshing them out a bit more, and (for Lana and Kiawe) establishing their dreams and backstories. However, while I don't really care for Sophocles (mostly because he feels like the more generic character out of a group of far more interesting characters), I do actually like Lana and Kiawe, so naturally I'm going to enjoy any episode focusing on them. I do agree that they need more development, but I think their episodes and some little moments in some of the recent episodes have done a decent job at fleshing out their characters. Lana is withdrawn and clearly prefers to spend more time with her Popplio, but she has this dry, sarcastic wit to her that I enjoy. While Kiawe easily has the most interesting backstory of the Trial Captain quartet, is basically a Large Ham with overprotective big brother instincts, and at least seems to be a capable battler.

Your opinion, your choice, your preference, and I'm not going to say you not liking SM episodes focusing on classmates or are just boring in general is wrong because I respect your opinion. You should expect people to disagree with your views on what is filler and what is not. You just got to learn that not everyone is going to share your views nor are they ever going to change theirs. Also, just because someone doesn't say "in my opinion", or "I liked", and "I didn't like" doesn't mean what they're trying to say is a fact. I didn't need Pokegirl Fan~ to say those words to know that her saying "XY fillers were unbearable" was her opinion.
That's more a lesson I have to learn TBH. :/ That's the English major in me cropping up, and I shouldn't be forcing that on people. My apologies.

Anyway, I do prefer early XY fillers more than the SM fillers so far, but I'm not going to say that all the SM fillers were bad. In a filler there has to be something entertaining which interests the viewers/keeps the viewers on their toes, for example, the pancake race in SM013. The SM fillers sometimes tend to overdo the slapstick and thus, some fillers really seem like episodes of Tom and Jerry, like SM017.
I like Tom and Jerry. :(
 

Spyro39

Well-Known Member
Yet you pointed out the same thing in my post in the other when Satoshi and Touko fixed my post. :)

What are you talking about? I also said to you that you didn't have to say "in my opinion" when Satoshi and Touko fixed your post. It's just that you said "I fully agree with the fact that XY early fillers>>>>>SM early fillers", so I assumed what you were trying to say was a fact as well. I apologize if you weren't really trying to pass it off as a fact.
 

345ash-greninja

Auto-Memories Doll
I like Tom and Jerry. :(
I also like Tom and Jerry, pretty much everybody does, the Pokemon isn't a fun show, and the slapstick level shouldn't be as high there as Tom and Jerry. Some of the SM fillers are just like that to be honest.

What are you talking about? I also said to you that you didn't have to say "in my opinion" when Satoshi and Touko fixed your post. It's just that you said "I fully agree with the fact that XY early fillers>>>>>SM early fillers", so I assumed what you were trying to say was a fact as well. I apologize if you weren't really trying to pass it off as a fact.

I was actually just trying to agree with Jeal, it was evident. And another part of my post was also fixed, which at least shouldn't have been I think.
 
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Spyro39

Well-Known Member
I also like Tom and Jerry, pretty much everybody does, the Pokemon isn't a fun show, and the slapstick level shouldn't be as high there as Tom and Jerry. Some of the SM fillers are just like that to be honest.

Yeah, I get that SM is advertised as a comedy series, but they need to tone down on the slapstick. It feels forced at times, especially with the way it sometimes focuses on Ash. :/

I was actually just trying to agree with Jeal, it was evident. And another part of my post was also fixed, which at least shouldn't have been I think.

Okay, so you were just trying to agree with someone who shared your opinions. My apologies. :(
 

Akkipeddi

YAAAHOOO
Yeah, I get that SM is advertised as a comedy series, but they need to tone down on the slapstick. It feels forced at times, especially with the way it sometimes focuses on Ash. :/

Yeah same here. I don't think this series is that bad tbh, and I've enjoyed it till episode 21. But, this is probably the only series where I'm watching it for the other characters, and not Ash. I really adore Kiawe, Kukui, and Mallow, and of course there's the upcoming arc of Lillie. Ash has been almost unbearable at times this season for me due to all the slapstick that only seems to focus on him.
 
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U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
I said it before and I'll say it again: for SM to be a great series, it needs to either fully embrace the silliness and SoL or embrace the adventure.
 
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