Sun & Moon, your thoughts now vs first thoughts

[Satomine Night]

Generally speaking I'm not opposed to the idea of Ash showing off a wider variety of reactions in battles, but there was one particular part in the Crabrawler fight that's just really off putting for me, when Crabrawler blows away Leafage with Bubble Beam and Ash is like "D: so strong", it sounded like he was whining about it (just listen to his voice), when he should either just get excited about having such a strong opponent, or be experienced enough to expect something like it from a veteran. It was a rookie reaction through and through, and I don't think it was meant to be funny either.

It's actually interesting that you interpreted that line as whining, because I interpreted it as startled disappointment--more along the lines of, "Erk, my strategy didn't work," not really whining. However, I can see how that might have sounded like it was whining to some people.

Note that I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you. After all, people will interpret different things different ways. I just find it interesting that that's how you interpreted Ash's tone in that scene, since that's not how I interpreted it.

 

[lemoncatpower]

It's actually interesting that you interpreted that line as whining, because I interpreted it as startled disappointment--more along the lines of, "Erk, my strategy didn't work," not really whining. However, I can see how that might have sounded like it was whining to some people.

Note that I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you. After all, people will interpret different things different ways. I just find it interesting that that's how you interpreted Ash's tone in that scene, since that's not how I interpreted it.

I agree that it seemed more like startled disappointment. I don't think you can really whine much in a battle unless you repeatedly complain about something not working, but if you make a comment about how an opponents counter working on your strategy it just seems more like showing his emotion in battle. But to each their own.

 

[satopi]

It's actually interesting that you interpreted that line as whining, because I interpreted it as startled disappointment--more along the lines of, "Erk, my strategy didn't work," not really whining. However, I can see how that might have sounded like it was whining to some people.

Note that I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you. After all, people will interpret different things different ways. I just find it interesting that that's how you interpreted Ash's tone in that scene, since that's not how I interpreted it.

Yeah, it's not like how he sounded when he said he didn't have a fishing rod (which was pleasantly cute. Never heard his voice get that high.) I'm a bit disappointed that he didn't have those intense faces he made in the battle with James the butler but he was really animated during the Hala battle as well.

 

[Rohanator]

I guess whining was a bad way to put it, I mean obviously he didn't have the time to like properly whine about it, the reaction just came off as whiny to me. Or just like, excessively disappointed. Like they blocked one move, big deal.

 

[Janovy]

I guess whining was a bad way to put it, I mean obviously he didn't have the time to like properly whine about it, the reaction just came off as whiny to me. Or just like, excessively disappointed. Like they blocked one move, big deal.

God forbid Ash expresses emotions during a gym battle instead of being a robotic battling machine.

Who wants a main character who acts like a human being?

 

[Rohanator]

God forbid Ash expresses emotions during a gym battle instead of being a robotic battling machine.

Who wants a main character who acts like a human being?

Generally speaking I'm not opposed to the idea of Ash showing off a wider variety of reactions in battles

The balance of fun and competent Ash in SM is good so far, but I hope they won't mischaracterize him like that in future fights. This might fall into the nitpicking category but it's just something that stood out to me.

How bout you actually read what I say instead of mindlessly targeting me as soon as I say something even slightly negative. I like SM Ash as a whole but this was one instance where I think he expressed the wrong kind of emotion.

 

[mega snorlax]

Initial reaction: OH MY GOD, WHAT HAVE THEY DONE TO ASH'S FACE? KILL IT, KILL IT WITH FIRE!!! HE LOOKS LIKE HIS IQ HAS DROPPED BELOW 0!!
Now: Still not a huge fan of his facial design, but I'm pleasantly surprised with how his competency (and Pika's strength) has completely carried over from XYZ. And for once Pika hasn't suffered a reset. Ash only looked silky due to his OTT-but-hilarious reactions. The school plot is rather well done so far, Bewear is a legend, and I'm warming to the new characters rather quickly.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

To the people complaining about character development, may I remind you we are only gonna be at episode 12 next week. It's not gonna end at the 30 yard mark

Besides, it took 40 episodes for Serena to fully develop as a character. Everyone was losing their minds over what her purpose was for a year

 

[Rohanator]

To the people complaining about character development, may I remind you we are only gonna be at episode 12 next week. It's not gonna end at the 30 yard mark

Besides, it took 40 episodes for Serena to fully develop as a character. Everyone was losing their minds over what her purpose was for a year

The difference is that Serena also didn't have anything to do in universe, she didn't KNOW what she wanted to do, so it made sense that she would eventually gain a goal, even if it admittedly took long to start.

The captains on the other hand have actual lives going on in the show. There's no hints that any of them desire something big that would require a lot of development. I'm sure they'll all get nice moments through out the series but for the most part it seems likely that they'll just be chilling and occasionally taking part in the adventure of the week, their focus will probably happen through a variety of episodic stories rather than a big overarching goal.

Lillie has actual set up for future developments though.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Besides, it took 40 episodes for Serena to fully develop as a character. Everyone was losing their minds over what her purpose was for a year

And as a result, she never made it to the 4 Pokemon mark; her rivals didn't feel as rivals; her only losses were because of slight hiccups on the stage and not because someone was better (until Aria lifted a finger and everyone loved her by default); her routines were mostly about fire, fire, and more fire; and her goal practically ended before Ash even hit the eight gym... Really? May and Dawn got to end their run right before the league.

At least, with Ash, he has no worries about playing second fiddle to someone.

 

[Soniman]

And as a result, she never made it to the 4 Pokemon mark; her rivals didn't feel as rivals; her only losses were because of slight hiccups on the stage and not because someone was better (until Aria lifted a finger and everyone loved her by default); her routines were mostly about fire, fire, and more fire; and her goal practically ended before Ash even hit the eight gym... Really? May and Dawn got to end their run right before the league.

At least, with Ash, he has no worries about playing second fiddle to someone.

Dawn finished get goal before Ash's eight badge too.

How bout you actually read what I say instead of mindlessly targeting me as soon as I say something even slightly negative. I like SM Ash as a whole but this was one instance where I think he expressed the wrong kind of emotion.

No shhhh accept the strawman, if you don't unconditionally love every single emotion or face SM Ash makes you just don't care about his character and want him to be a "soulless battle robot" instead of a "real" person, lmao

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

Dawn finished get goal before Ash's eight badge too.

Well, the gap wasn't as glaring. It was an episode apart.

 

[Rohanator]

Well, the gap wasn't as glaring. It was an episode apart.

The gap between Serena's master class and the 8th gym was 8 episodes, it's not THAT glaring, especially when almost all of those episodes were Ash Greninja set up for the gym battle, meaning it would've just been weird to toss the master class in between them.

 

[UltimateNinja]

God forbid Ash expresses emotions during a gym battle instead of being a robotic battling machine.

Who wants a main character who acts like a human being?

It's rather unrealistic to think that a human would make some silly faces during an important event like some of Ash's faces shown in SM.

 

[Rohanator]

Honestly if they want to add humour and wackyness into battles there's a really obvious way to do it which makes perfect sense with Ash's personality and preserves his competence. Just have him come up some crazy out there strategies (I guess that's the hard part but hey these writers get paid go watch some JoJo and put in the work my boys) and act totally over the top while executing them, leaving his opponents speechless, and make the animation more lively like that Pika VS Mimikyu/Solgaleo sequence in the opening. Funny AND badass. So far the battles have just kinda been the same with slightly less stoic facial expressions. Which I guess is alright, but it just makes the style shift seem kinda half hearted in the end.

 

[snorlax512]

Honestly if they want to add humour and wackyness into battles there's a really obvious way to do it which makes perfect sense with Ash's personality and preserves his competence. Just have him come up some crazy out there strategies (I guess that's the hard part but hey these writers get paid go watch some JoJo and put in the work my boys) and act totally over the top while executing them, leaving his opponents speechless, and make the animation more lively like that Pika VS Mimikyu/Solgaleo sequence in the opening. Funny AND badass. So far the battles have just kinda been the same with slightly less stoic facial expressions. Which I guess is alright, but it just makes the style shift seem kinda half hearted in the end.

Or they could make him be badass in battle and funny outside of them.

 

[Rohanator]

Or they could make him be badass in battle and funny outside of them.

I think he's badass enough right now (I mean I never wanted him to be like some extreme badass anime dude, I just want him to be confident), but they could go more all out with the funny, in a way that would even enhance his badassery.

But yeah factoring in the down time humour I think the balance is good overall.

 

[AuraChannelerChris]

The gap between Serena's master class and the 8th gym was 8 episodes, it's not THAT glaring, especially when almost all of those episodes were Ash Greninja set up for the gym battle, meaning it would've just been weird to toss the master class in between them.

Phantump episode. Let's not brush that off. It came across as glaring between all the training episodes.

 

[satopi]

I don't see anything wrong with him displaying emotions in battles outside of serious. I didn't really pay attention to him as the battle was more eye popping. I'll be more upset by the way Ash makes over exaggerated faces (like in Looney Tunes territory) than his natural reaction to things. Can't help how he reacts, I like it on how happy he sounded and him boosting with energy when Rowlet hit Crabrawler. Maybe he did sound a mix of bit whiny & mostly disappointed but hey, I'm not complaining over a small scene.

He really entertained me when he didn't want to be stood up by Kiawe and his little sister with the hay stacking.

 

[Rohanator]

Phantump episode. Let's not brush that off. It came across as glaring between all the training episodes.

One episode doesn't ruin the big picture for me. And I said "almost all were set up" so obviously I know of that.