Sun & Moon, your thoughts now vs first thoughts

[satopi]

Oshawott was amazing. I can't stand Piplup nor Chespin but Piplup was a great character and much better than Clemont's Chespin. The only Chespin that was good in XY(&Z) was Hari san.

SM is shaping up to be an incredible saga. BW would've been more amazing had Japan not experience a national disaster and it became a botched saga with no risks attached.

 

[UltimateNinja]

My interest is still there, but the current pacing is still something to worry about. The pace currently is badly balanced. Ash's trial quest until now was too fast, pretty much the first whole island in eleven episodes, while the pacing around the characters (specifically Lillie) is to slow for what happened until now (and what we've heard in the new announced episode summaries). It's not like they're getting no development, but there's so less over a long run. I feel like we are still on a "character introduction part", which should be over soon to get some plot or some training for the whole trial quest rolling on. What I also miss are some serious battling episodes against some characters with a twist. Something like the Froakie/Frogadier episode from XY for Rowlet. Also Ash badly needs another pokemon by now. Training episodes, character (human and pokemon) interaction and development episodes and some plot driven episodes like Lillie starting her "goal" of the series are lacking, especially since the trial captains except Kiawe are flat right now. The episodes feel empty, without much depth to relevant episodes in the future. That's sad, because the story about Lillie in the games would be awesome in anime format. It even feels like they are going a complete different route with her.

 

[Golden_Latias]

I honestly don't understand why people are complaining that the pacing is too slow. By this point in XY, Ash only had one badge, and Serena didn't even know what she wanted to do. It's not like they got to the plot immediately there. :/ And as Janovy mentioned, at least in SM, we've already got some foreshadowing with Tapu Koko's interest in Ash and whatever traumatized Lillie so much that she can't even touch Pokemon, not to mention that photo of Lusamine and Gladion in SM08 indicates that they're going to show up at some point, which is more than what we got in XY during the same timespan.

Really, the pacing here isn't that much different from the other series. Only real differences seem to be that Ash had more Pokemon, and for the most part, the side characters had clearly defined goals. And really, those are my only complaints about the series currently. After the events of SM12, Ash needs another Pokemon. Immediately. And for all we know, SM15 and 16 may very well be capture episodes (we know nothing about SM15-17 aside from a brief paragraph of summary each, after all). I also think the side characters besides Lillie need more focus, but that will probably come in time.

 

[DS0308]

Kind of expanding on a point Soniman brought up, I do have a feeling that only Ash and Lillie will get respectable stories/development built around them this series. Right now Lana and Sophocles seem particularly irrelevant, Mallow's appearing often but hasn't really shown anything to indicate that she's going to be any different than what she is currently (mainly just cheerful support), although I'm sure we'll get some episodes on her family and that. The only other character that could be semi-relevant is Kiawe because he's participated in Island trials.

That's just after getting titles for up to Episode 17 and I'd like to be wrong, but I'm not seeing it right now.

I still have a "wait-and-see" mentality for Ash's island trials because that might be problematic given what's happening with the school.

EDIT: I feel the need to clarify that I'm not arguing against irrelevant characters at all in a series, it's just 2/3 seems more appealing than 2/6.

 

[satopi]

I remember complaining about DP's pacing being too slow amongst some complaints and yet, most people really enjoyed that saga.

With SM, I don't see much they could work with at the moment that we already know. I really like learning about Ash's home base and learning a lot about our main characters outside of their goals. It feels very intimate when they're putting in a lot of effort to get to know Ash and his classmates.

This is also the only big chance for us to see Ash in a normal home setting and his person extended.

 

[TheWanderingMist]

I remember complaining about DP's pacing being too slow amongst some complaints and yet, most people really enjoyed that saga.

With SM, I don't see much they could work with at the moment that we already know. I really like learning about Ash's home base and learning a lot about our main characters outside of their goals. It feels very intimate when they're putting in a lot of effort to get to know Ash and his classmates.

This is also the only big chance for us to see Ash in a normal home setting and his person extended.

If only they could do 2 episodes every week. That would certainly pacify the people who think it's going too slow. I myself feel like this saga has quite the slow start but I've been with the show since Kanto and I'm not planning on leaving 'til the very end. I feel like they're using Melemele to set up all the recurring characters, who will somehow show up on the other islands as well.

 

[U.N. Owen]

Some of my favorite shows were not known for their stellar opening arcs *cough* Digimon Tamers *cough*, but they turned out great. SM is still laying groundwork so far, but I'm not exactly keen on what goal is there. There is some foreshadowing with Lillie and we know Ash is doing the trials.

 

[satopi]

If only they could do 2 episodes every week. That would certainly pacify the people who think it's going too slow. I myself feel like this saga has quite the slow start but I've been with the show since Kanto and I'm not planning on leaving 'til the very end. I feel like they're using Melemele to set up all the recurring characters, who will somehow show up on the other islands as well.

Oh I absolutely loved when they were bringing out 2 episodes without any breaks back in its early early days. I think it's more of the characters not doing anything of significance/plot relevant. Some people just don't like certain types of filler episodes. Ash and Kiawe did fly to Akala Island casually in Kiawe's focus episode. I don't see how he couldn't do the same with the other islands. Melemele Island is being set up as some sort of home base for Ash and the only casualty is we might not explore and see all of what each island offers when Melemele Island is home base.

Unless they showcase one of the islands in the Tiny Trio episode and have Rowlet and the others explore it to find their way home.

Some of my favorite shows were not known for their stellar opening arcs *cough* Digimon Tamers *cough*, but they turned out great. SM is still laying groundwork so far, but I'm not exactly keen on what goal is there. There is some foreshadowing with Lillie and we know Ash is doing the trials.

I love Digimon Tamers!!! It's the best Digimon series there is! Even though they're quite different, it's true that the early stage of a saga starts out calm and light hearted and slowly turn darker and more serious. We had the last poster show Ash, his friends, and Tapu Koko standing together to protect Alola. It's already setting up for Lillie to get a much bigger role and Tapu Koko hinting on disaster to happen which is why he gives out Z Rings to certain people with missions in mind.

 

[Satomine Night]

Oh I absolutely loved when they were bringing out 2 episodes without any breaks back in its early early days. I think it's more of the characters not doing anything of significance/plot relevant. Some people just don't like certain types of filler episodes. Ash and Kiawe did fly to Akala Island casually in Kiawe's focus episode. I don't see how he couldn't do the same with the other islands. Melemele Island is being set up as some sort of home base for Ash and the only casualty is we might not explore and see all of what each island offers when Melemele Island is home base.

I respectfully disagree. Just because Melemele Island is the home base doesn't mean Ash won't thoroughly explore the other islands. He can easily explore each island on the way to the trial locations, and he will still be on the lookout for new Pokémon to catch. Alola has so much to offer, and I'm sure we'll see as much of it as possible.

While the characters might not be doing anything of plot significance, we are still learning about these characters, and IMHO, that is just as important as moving the plot forward. (It's certainly better than being stuck with these characters we know nothing about.) With such a large cast, I don't really mind the writers taking the time to introduce each of these characters.

 

[satopi]

I respectfully disagree. Just because Melemele Island is the home base doesn't mean Ash won't thoroughly explore the other islands. He can easily explore each island on the way to the trial locations, and he will still be on the lookout for new Pokémon to catch. Alola has so much to offer, and I'm sure we'll see as much of it as possible.

And there's always fillers to show off the other islands. I guess I'm trying to say that with a home base, he'll have to cut his trip short because of school and getting back home. And then we won't get to experience the island to a full extent. Even in Kiawe's focus episode, we barely seen much of Akala Island (But we did learn a tradition while there too.) Wish that they'll have field trips and longer stays there. Ash can't be the only one having the privilege to visit every island.

 

[Golden_Latias]

Some of my favorite shows were not known for their stellar opening arcs *cough* Digimon Tamers *cough*, but they turned out great. SM is still laying groundwork so far, but I'm not exactly keen on what goal is there. There is some foreshadowing with Lillie and we know Ash is doing the trials.

Steven Universe

Don't forget about Tapu Koko taking an interest in Ash for whatever reason.

Yeah, the whole point is we're only 13 episodes in. Ash has two Pokemon and basically the equivalent of one badge (I personally consider the Totems the equivalent of gym leaders and ignore the Kahunas). That's really not much different from AG and XY as far as pacing goes.

Besides, if they just rush into the plot like a lot of people want, we'll wind up with a Decolore Islands 2.0 situation, and surely nobody wants that.

 

[Satomine Night]

And there's always fillers to show off the other islands. I guess I'm trying to say that with a home base, he'll have to cut his trip short because of school and getting back home. And then we won't get to experience the island to a full extent. Even in Kiawe's focus episode, we barely seen much of Akala Island (But we did learn a tradition while there too.) Wish that they'll have field trips and longer stays there. Ash can't be the only one having the privilege to visit every island.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. But then, the fact that he has a home base and access to Ride Pokémon means that he can freely revisit, say, Akala Island whenever he wants. Also, this Pokémon School seems to have a very loose academic structure (although I may have that impression because we never actually see these students studying); Ash may be able to take a few days off to travel to and explore another island. One or more of his friends may even be able to get a leave of absence to accompany him.

 

[satopi]

Ah, I see what you're getting at. But then, the fact that he has a home base and access to Ride Pokémon means that he can freely revisit, say, Akala Island whenever he wants. Also, this Pokémon School seems to have a very loose academic structure (although I may have that impression because we never actually see these students studying); Ash may be able to take a few days off to travel to and explore another island. One or more of his friends may even be able to get a leave of absence to accompany him.

I always wanted that free ride to any place in the region with any Pokemon that can use Fly to finally be enabled in the anime like it is in the games!

I'm kinda wanting to see what they're studying (outside of just knowing the differences between Kanto/Alolan Pokemon or going out to the beach and observing them).

He has weekends off and since the school is very outdoorsy and unorthodox, it wouldn't be far fetched for them to visit the other islands and parts of Melemele Island.

 

[dp045]

I did not have faith this season and after 10 episodes I do not have faith either. It has been the most boring season and I think it could be the worst. In the end you have to face it, only those who saw the series for years will find good things because they simply can not leave something that you spent a lot of time. And the fanboys who do not tolerate being pointed out all the bad things and mistakes of the anime and the new season, although it must be considered that many of the errors and failures of the season has dragged them for years. As for example the inconsistency of the argument, the reset of Ash, among others (these are not just SM errors, since OS also has them).

 

[satopi]

I did not have faith this season and after 10 episodes I do not have faith either. It has been the most boring season and I think it could be the worst. In the end you have to face it, only those who saw the series for years will find good things because they simply can not leave something that you spent a lot of time. And the fanboys who do not tolerate being pointed out all the bad things and mistakes of the anime and the new season, although it must be considered that many of the errors and failures of the season has dragged them for years. As for example the inconsistency of the argument, the reset of Ash, among others (these are not just SM errors, since OS also has them).

Where do you base this from? Explain to some of us on the failures and errors this saga has (mind you, only has 13 episodes aired so far), Ash is reset, and among the other reasons you have. Sounds more like you want to nitpick small things about the whole anime and deem it as inconsistent.

Lots of mindless complaining with no backup on his claims. I mean other than boring.

 

[Satomine Night]

I did not have faith this season and after 10 episodes I do not have faith either. It has been the most boring season and I think it could be the worst. In the end you have to face it, only those who saw the series for years will find good things because they simply can not leave something that you spent a lot of time. And the fanboys who do not tolerate being pointed out all the bad things and mistakes of the anime and the new season, although it must be considered that many of the errors and failures of the season has dragged them for years. As for example the inconsistency of the argument, the reset of Ash, among others (these are not just SM errors, since OS also has them).

That's...not fair. There are plenty of fans who enjoy SM for reasons other than "I've stuck with the show for this long, so I might as well stick with it until the end." While SM may not appeal to everyone, there is still plenty about it to like for those to whom it does appeal. Some of us actually enjoy the humor and the characters, and it may have nothing to do with how long we have been following the Pokémon anime. It's also unfair to claim that everyone who enjoys SM are fanboys who can't tolerate having the series's faults pointed out to them.

I'm also starting to get really tired of people claiming that Ash has been reset, when all evidence points to the contrary. He is still a skilled, competent Trainer, so why are people insisting he has been reset? :/ Even Pikachu doesn't seem to have lost (much) of his skill and experience.

 

[dp045]

Where do you base this from? Explain to some of us on the failures and errors this saga has (mind you, only has 13 episodes aired so far), Ash is reset, and among the other reasons you have. Sounds more like you want to nitpick small things about the whole anime and deem it as inconsistent.

Lots of mindless complaining with no backup on his claims. I mean other than boring.

They are many but already in other discussions they have approached. Also it is the anime of pokémon and this is characterized to maintain its narrative throughout the whole saga (except in Best WIshes 2 and XYZ where there was a slight change of focus) and already with the first 10 episodes we can assume the tone that will have The anime along all generation and being frank and really evaluating the anime of pokemon as we could evaluate it as with other anime or series because it is really bad and I do not think there is a place to make something more interesting or good with the Go from the chapters. And if you want to know a fatal mistake that has the anime is that Ash maintains the same age even though it is intuited that they spend months during their different adventures and that the concept of time is something they handle to convince writers. Only with that already leaves the badly stopped the anime since even with that it is clear jar that this is the same Ash of the previous seasons and ... But that is why I say, SM anime is bad because it drags these Errors of the previous seasons and therefore this leaves as bad the anime since the change of tone with respect to the previous one is very drastic and the majority only hopes that the "thing improves" with the passage of the chapters but I do not think that it is the case.

 

[satopi]

They are many but already in other discussions they have approached. Also it is the anime of pokémon and this is characterized to maintain its narrative throughout the whole saga (except in Best WIshes 2 and XYZ where there was a slight change of focus) and already with the first 10 episodes we can assume the tone that will have The anime along all generation and being frank and really evaluating the anime of pokemon as we could evaluate it as with other anime or series because it is really bad and I do not think there is a place to make something more interesting or good with the Go from the chapters. And if you want to know a fatal mistake that has the anime is that Ash maintains the same age even though it is intuited that they spend months during their different adventures and that the concept of time is something they handle to convince writers. Only with that already leaves the badly stopped the anime since even with that it is clear jar that this is the same Ash of the previous seasons and ... But that is why I say, SM anime is bad because it drags these Errors of the previous seasons and therefore this leaves as bad the anime since the change of tone with respect to the previous one is very drastic and the majority only hopes that the "thing improves" with the passage of the chapters but I do not think that it is the case.

... So basically you're saying SM anime is terrible, because it somehow carries over the errors of the previous sagas which you barely touched upon (and SM is somehow guilty of association because of this?) which is Ash staying 10 and being confused with the concept of time and the very end of the previous saga being different in tone.

And no, just because we get a taste of what this saga is like in the first 10 episodes doesn't mean that that's how the whole saga is going to be like.

And quit it with the mindset of thinking that this anime is going to improve by your standards. If you're not enjoying this saga, skip over it and don't watch it. All of the sagas have great aspects and bad aspects. Yet it doesn't define the whole anime.

 

[Frozocrone]

One thing that does concern me is the lack of plot progression.

Ash - island trial (but he's already got Electrium-Z and without new Pokemon, he's got no reason to get new crystals)
Kiawe - maybe work on farm?
Sophocles - maybe inventor?
Lana - bubble goal to explore ocean
Lillie - overcome her fear
Mallow - maybe working in cafe?

Unless they all want to graduate. But right now it feels like there's...not really much on offer in regards to an overarching plot. Sure Lillie has her game plot but right now it's not present.

Other than that, it's been pretty good so far.

 

[sheld999]

pretty good so far, quite enjoy it