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Sun & Moon, your thoughts now vs first thoughts

Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
Nah, the animation for XY's battles was still pretty stiff. XY just used creative angles and such to get around it.

Plus, you have a far larger sample size for XY than you do for SM so...
 

Satomine Night

The Power of Z!
Question if it was soley for fluid animation why do the Pokémon look exactly the same? I wasn't expecting them to have same big re-design but they look exactly like they did in XY. In fact I was a little turned off when TR returned looking like SM and Mewoth is still looking like XY.
The Pokémon don't look exactly the same. It's very subtle, but I have noticed slight differences between the Pikachu and Meowth of SM and the Pikachu and Meowth of previous series. But in any case, Pikachu's and Meowth's character designs were simple to start with, so there wasn't really any need to simplify their designs to allow for more fluid animation. Besides, the animators can only do so much with the Pokémon's designs, since they still have to match/resemble their in-game counterparts.

Nah, the animation for XY's battles was still pretty stiff. XY just used creative angles and such to get around it.
This right here. XY used creative, dynamic camera angles to hide the stiff animation, but the animation was still stiff. SM may not have dynamic camera angles, but it doesn't need them; the animation is fluid enough that there's little stiffness that needs to be disguised.

IMO, the difference in the animation quality between SM and the previous series is most noticeable with the human characters. I haven't really rewatched episodes of previous series since SM started, but I recently rewatched a few episodes of XY (to capture screenshots for banners), and I was amazed at how stiff the animation looked after months of solely watching SM. The animation wasn't bad by any means, but it was definitely stiff.
 

mockingjay

swift and lol
The anime was already intended for "6 years old" hence why even "dark and edgy" sagas like XY had a filtered kiss at the end of the series. Just because it has a funnish vibe doesn't mean older fans can't enjoy it but if you want a series to havs endless blood, killings or whatever Pokémon isn't for you.

Why are you making so many false assumptions?

Why is the term 'dark and edgy' in quotation marks and why are you saying "just because it has a funnish vibe" and "endless blood, killings"?
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
Why are you making so many false assumptions?

Why is the term 'dark and edgy' in quotation marks and why are you saying "just because it has a funnish vibe" and "endless blood, killings"?

It isn't false assumption, dark and edgy are in quotation marks because some people don't find XY to be that. I definitely didn't until XYZ started. And what the endless blood and killing was sarcasm.
The Pokémon don't look exactly the same. It's very subtle, but I have noticed slight differences between the Pikachu and Meowth of SM and the Pikachu and Meowth of previous series. But in any case, Pikachu's and Meowth's character designs were simple to start with, so there wasn't really any need to simplify their designs to allow for more fluid animation. Besides, the animators can only do so much with the Pokémon's designs, since they still have to match/resemble their in-game counterparts.
Really? I didn't notice any difference but I'll take your word for it
 
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Rampardo

Well-Known Member
This right here. XY used creative, dynamic camera angles to hide the stiff animation, but the animation was still stiff. SM may not have dynamic camera angles, but it doesn't need them; the animation is fluid enough that there's little stiffness that needs to be disguised.

What a load of BS. Most of SM's battles have hade really shitty and stiff animation. The only one that looked really good was Brock and Misty's.

When will people learn that the fluidity of action scenes is almost entirely dependent upon how skilled the animator is, and not on what art style is being used? OLM put a **** animator in charge of Ash Vs Olivia, and guess what, the animation and battle turned out to be really crappy looking. Except for that Bloom Doom scene and brief dog fight scene at the end, where Aito Ohashi (a really good animator) stepped in and did his magic, which resulted in fluid animation. If you take an animator who worked on both SM and XY and compare the fluidity of this animators' scenes, you will see it's just about the same.
 
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Dragalge

"Orange" Magical Girl
Not every episode of XY was the equivalent of Ash vs Clemont animation wise lol.

Although expected, sometimes, after big events like gym battes, they were usually proceeded by some episodes with more subpar animaton with reused scenes and such. XY still had good animation in their episodes but not every one of them was the pinnacle of animation. :p

With SM, I feel as they're more consistent with it at least. Both series' have great animation overall imo!
 

VoltTacklingPika

Well-Known Member
I find it interesting that the best animated SM episodes tend to be the ones that have no battles at all. That suggests to me that they're prioritising a whole different type of episode by giving them to the better animators, whereas in XY it was obvious that those animators were reserved for the big battles. It's just more evidence of the change of focus.

That's where the big difference lies, for me. It's not that SM is better animated on the whole than any other season, but that what's being given the great animation treatment is much different to how it used to be. Whether you like that or not is going to come to personal preference, because they obviously don't have enough talented animators on board and enough production time to make everything look great. It's either going to be great character animation or great battle animations, not both. Making your character designs easier to animate helps the consistency of the production but it's not going to mean much if you haven't got the right people working on it.

As for the art style, I don't see it as a case of one style being worse or better than the other. They're just different. I'm always going to prefer the new style because it's a softer look that gives us a warmer vibe, but I say that as someone who was never a fan of the old style. Too many sharp points and angles for my taste.

Really, on the whole, I'm just thankful that the production quality of the show has gone up so much over the years. I still remember those DP days where characters had square faces and speed lines were used for backgrounds.
 
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Art style and animation are simply just matter of opinions

I think SM art style is absolute ****, and the XY/XYZ is absolute beast. Doesn't mean you have to hae the same opinion

XY/XYZ definitely had a faster pace in battles tho and its art style and animation reflected it.
 

Genaller

Silver Soul
While SM does have more fluid animation, XY(Z)’s superior art style and battle pacing + coreography would still make it the series with the best presentation quality (of battles) by a long shot.
 

janejane6178

Kaleido Star FOREVER in my heart <3
Art style and animation are simply just matter of opinions

I think SM art style is absolute ****, and the XY/XYZ is absolute beast. Doesn't mean you have to hae the same opinion

XY/XYZ definitely had a faster pace in battles tho and its art style and animation reflected it.

While SM does have more fluid animation, XY(Z)’s superior art style and battle pacing + coreography would still make it the series with the best presentation quality (of battles) by a long shot.

Thankyou BOTH for posting this. Why isn't there a LIKE botton???
Anyway, I agree with you. Im trying to get used to the new art style ( Especially to how Ash and TR look) But Im having a hard time doing so
 

Golden_Latias

#SlayQueenSlay
It also really depends on how much the battles really matter to you.

If they're everything, than yeah, you're gonna be disappointed.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
It also really depends on how much the battles really matter to you.

If they're everything, than yeah, you're gonna be disappointed.

This. Of couse if battles is all you watch the anime for or primarily for, SM is going to be a disappointment. I like the fluid animation and lively background/scenery
 

U.N. Owen

In Brightest Day, In Blackest Night ...
This. Of couse if battles is all you watch the anime for or primarily for, SM is going to be a disappointment. I like the fluid animation and lively background/scenery

This is my cynicism talking, but many people only watch for the battles. Let's be honest, it's hard to get emotionally invested in someone like Ash rather than the pretty colors.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
In terms of battle animation I'm pretty sure XY just stomps on every other series. Not only was it fluid, but the art style really complemented the movements and made it pop out and flashy. Even outside of battles it's not like the animation completely stunk and SM isn't doing that much better in that regard.

I'm not a big fan of the art style, though it certainly isn't inferior to XY's art style. I just prefer the more typical sharper look on characters as, to be blunt, characters look "cooler" that way.
 

Leonhart

Imagineer
This is my cynicism talking, but many people only watch for the battles. Let's be honest, it's hard to get emotionally invested in someone like Ash rather than the pretty colors.

This is true in my case. I love battles and SM has given us some pretty intense fights so far that put even some of XY's best battles to shame in terms of animation, but I'm not too invested in how Satoshi will progress for the rest of his stay in Alola. It's too much of a carousel.
 

Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
This is true in my case. I love battles and SM has given us some pretty intense fights so far that put even some of XY's best battles to shame in terms of animation, but I'm not too invested in how Satoshi will progress for the rest of his stay in Alola. It's too much of a carousel.

How so though, if you don't mind me asking? I think only the two Kanto gym battles really showed the animation capability, and was very good, but other than that, battle animation hasn't been anything special in SM so far compared to to XY. I personally thought the Olivia battle was pretty poor animation wise, other than the brief part of Rowlet dodging Continental Crush.
 

Epicocity

Well-Known Member
How so though, if you don't mind me asking? I think only the two Kanto gym battles really showed the animation capability, and was very good, but other than that, battle animation hasn't been anything special in SM so far compared to to XY. I personally thought the Olivia battle was pretty poor animation wise, other than the brief part of Rowlet dodging Continental Crush.

Bloom Doom was pretty good, though, you have to admit. That said, all of the animation potential in battles has largely been focused on Z-Moves, since SM brought a return of a lot of battle commentary to cut away from the action that XY had dropped, and Z-Moves tend to be the focal point over most other strategies, especially in the Hala battle. Otherwise, they've mostly seemed simplistic except for maybe Rockruff climbing the Probopass heads. But yeah, other than those battles, most animation seems to be put into making the characters overly expressive, but when it's turned towards something as subjective as their style of humor, it can easily come off as not being good animation to the viewer who doesn't care for what said animation is being put towards.
 

AshxSatoshi

Ice Aurelia
This is my cynicism talking, but many people only watch for the battles. Let's be honest, it's hard to get emotionally invested in someone like Ash rather than the pretty colors.

Are you sure? That makes me question why characters like Misty and Serena have fans (especially the latter). Don't get me wrong I watch for battles also but that isn't the only reason I tune in. There have been great moments within the anime that didn't involve battles. Of course characters like Ash depend on battles for investment but I find a couple of characters within the anime interesting despite lack of battles. I don't mind the art style currently because as someone said there's just some characters in SM who would look crazy with XY's style. Lillie and Sophocles mainly comes to mind.
 
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Akkipeddi

All set to be a nice guy
Bloom Doom was pretty good, though, you have to admit. That said, all of the animation potential in battles has largely been focused on Z-Moves, since SM brought a return of a lot of battle commentary to cut away from the action that XY had dropped, and Z-Moves tend to be the focal point over most other strategies, especially in the Hala battle. Otherwise, they've mostly seemed simplistic except for maybe Rockruff climbing the Probopass heads. But yeah, other than those battles, most animation seems to be put into making the characters overly expressive, but when it's turned towards something as subjective as their style of humor, it can easily come off as not being good animation to the viewer who doesn't care for what said animation is being put towards.

Oh yeah, that part too. I forgot about Bloom Doom. That was pretty good. Yeah you're right that most of the animation focus goes into Z Moves during battles, while the rest of the battle kind of feel underwhelming due to commentary that makes the battles feel slow.
 
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