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Sun - PS VGC'13

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by APTX4869, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. APTX4869

    APTX4869 New Member

    I've been playing PokemonShowdown to test the team I'm planning to make in my 3DS. So far I had 17 wins 8 loses with it. Since you can run full 31 IVs in emulators, I'll be placing here the 31 IV spread that I'd want to achieve in console play. I'll also be explaining the moveset first before I discuss my strategies.

    Ninetales (F) @ Shuca Berry
    Trait: Drought
    IVs: HP, Spe, SDef
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Protect
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Heat Wave
    - Energy Ball

    What's a sun team without your setter. Ninetails here runs her speedy basic defensive set. HP obviously is to be set at max to cushion attacks, and Speed to inflict burn fast before she takes any physical offensive. Since there are other faster sweepers, even with though running max Speed with a Timid nature, the fox can still work under TR.

    Dusknoir @ Mental Herb
    Trait: Pressure
    IVs: HP, Def, SDef/0 Spe
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 Def / 40 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Night Shade
    - Trick Room

    Most VGC players would run Dusclops over Dusknoir because of it's accessibility to Eviolite. The only thing that made me choose his 3rd evo is because it's freedom to use other items than Eviolite. And this brings us to Mental Herb. Most Dusclops users that I have faced can easily be shut
    down by a taunt rendering the ghost useless. With Mental Herb, Dusknoir is more versatile: It is immune to Fake Out and can take 1 Taunt before it gets shut down.
    Impish nature with 216 Def EVs nails him to 200 def, 40 SDef EVs at 160. People might wonder why I choose to go with such spread since I'm already running WoW which can practically cover his Def stat. Well, I considered such spread since Physical Dark moves have a wider distribution (Crunch & Sucker Punch), than special ones (with Dark Pulse). Dusknoir can take Dark types with ease and counter them with a burn.
    I first considered Trick Room as a means to counter opposing Trick Room users, but it played way better than my expectations especially when faced against fast teams. Sunny Day is an obvious move to support my sun team and it works well with Trick Room, especially against weather teams that choose to play with weather inducers rather than weather starters. Against such teams, I'd usually go TR on the first turn then Sunny Day on the next. It counters their weather efficiently while maintaining my defensive tempo.

    Volcarona (F) @ Focus Sash
    IV: HP, SAtk, Spe
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Heat Wave
    - Bug Buzz
    - Tailwind
    - Protect

    Tailwind + Focus Sash can make Volcarona forgo a Timid nature. Under the Sun and with Tailwind, pairing up with Ninetails, they can spam Heat Waves after Heat Waves and can cause a burn on the opponent. I got this idea while studying Hail Teams, their strategy on spamming Blizzard to nail them a Freeze on the opponent. Caution though, this set must be played defensively since it does not run a Timid nature.

    Sawsbuck (M) @ Life Orb
    IV: HP, Atk, Spe
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Horn Leech
    - Return
    - Jump Kick
    - Protect

    Revenge killer at best, and I would normally run him on the second row. Not much discussion on his moveset except for Horn Leech and Jump Kick. With his signature move, Sawsbuck can act as a pseudo tank, most of the time keeping himself 10% less than full HP. Jump Kick was considered over Megahorn since I have trouble facing against opposing Heatran, which would sweep my team before I considred using it. It also counters opposing Tyranitar well, since most of them are slower with a Sassy or Brave nature.
    Now with the EV spread. 124 Spe EVs outruns uninvested base 110 Spe pokemon (nailing him at 131 Speed). This is to make sure he can dent or KO opposing 110 spe when faced without Tailwind or Sun support.

    @ Sitrus Berry
    IV: HP, Def, Sdef
    Trait: Harvest
    EVs: 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Psyshock
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect

    Exeggutor sees a lot of matches in this team and most of my wins is because of him. I would often play him on the 1st row with Dusknoir since he can run both on Sun and TR. I mainly got this idea from Wolfe Glick's Exeggutor (credits to him and his explanation can be found here>>>> http://nuggetbridge.com/reports/eggscelent-execution/) What I've copied from him is his EV distribution since I found it appealing but deviated in the moveset.
    I deviated from Wolfe's Leaf Storm and Power Swap combo, and replaced it with Giga Drain and Leech Seed. My reasons is that I find Exeggutor to slow to abuse Power Swap, especially when running outside TR. Even though he can cushion attacks and partially heal it off with Sitrus, it's not an assurance that he can survive the next turn.
    So yeah, I discussed that he can win games, and that's because he can outstall the opponent, even though it's at a disadvantage 2 to 1. Sitrus+Harvest, Leech Seed and Giga Drain wrecks havoc to opponents who would normally disregard Exeggutor. My friends who I have battled over PS would disregard Exeggutor and would normally target its partner thinking Exeggutor would not be a treat. Others who would otherwise target him would be sweeped by its partner and Exeggutor would just heal it back with his Sitrus+Harvest combo.

    Rhyperior @ Rindo Berry
    IV: HP, Def, SDef
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Ice Punch
    - Protect


    Rhyperior works well inside and outside TR. Outside TR but under the Sun, Rhyperior's type weaknesses would hit him 1.5 effective thanks to Sun support, Rindo Berry and Solid Rock. People who thinks that they can OHKO him would be disappointed, the EV spread makes sure of such result. Rhyperior's Atk and Def stats doesn't need that much invested since it's running 140 and 130 base stat respectively. With that in mind, I can run max HP and SDef EVs giving him 222 HP and 117 SDef.
    His moveset is geared to take on coverage. Notably, Ice Punch is chosen over Megahorn to counter opposing dragon types.


    >This team is to be played defensively and with a counter-attack strategy in mind. The idea is to stretch the opponent's defenses while maintaining pressure. 4 out of 6 in this team is meant to be played defensively: Ninetails, Dusknoir, Exeggutor and Rhyperior.

    Dusknoir + Exeggutor
    >This starting line up gives me freedom to choose my strategy between Sunny Day and Trick Room. But as I have mentioned earlier I would normally go TR on the first turn and Sunny Day on the second. This combination also makes me start my stall with WoW and Leech Seed. Though it may be an unwise start, it pressures my opponent to switch which is a great opportunity to spread Burn around. Once my leads are defeated, though rarely in case of Exeggutor, I could switch in with my revenge killers with Ninetails, Volcarona and Sawsbuck.

    Volcarona + Ninetails
    >Simple enough, Ninetails protects - Volcarona uses Tailwind, if lucky, opponent would choose to take down ninetails or Volcarona triggers Focus Sash and does not take any more damage. Next turn, I'd go Heat Wave offensive as I have discussed earlier.

    Volcarona + Sawsbuck

    >Same idea with Ninetails here, but this is more of a situational when I choose to play with only Dusknoir and without Ninetails at the back row. It technically plays the same idea with a Chlorophyll boosted Sawsbuck except that it's on a safer ground against fire attacks (not that it can take fire attack and still live to take revenge)

    Sun + Rhyperior
    >I mentioned this earlier. I would often play this as a weather counter. Against Rain teams, I would just have to use protect while his partner sets up the Sun. Even without the Sun, Rhyperior can still take 2HKOs. Against Sand, obviously it gets its SDef boost, must to Tyranitar's dismay and counter it with an Earthquake. It can even sponge Tyranitar's Low Kick.
    The idea is to just tank everything they give you while Rhyperior and his partner would use protect and alternatively. I would also play it then suddenly switch it with Exeggutor to surprise them. In that scenario, Exeggutor will just have to leave Leech Seed around then switch back to Rhyperior.

    Trick Room + Exeggutor and Rhyperior
    >Yes, it might be best to play offensively with this tactic but I would normally go offensive-defense. Wondering what that might be? I'm using TR to set up my revenge kill or sweep when they have left the room, spreading Burn, scattering Seeds and (in case of Rhyperior) taking out Dragon and Flying types since Volcarona, Sawsbuck and Exeggutor hates those stuffs.

    Exeggutor + everything else
    >Exeggutor serves as a check to my teams weaknesses (even though it brings the most number of weaknesses in the team). Switching is the best tactic to use on Exeggutor.
    It supports the team against opposing weather teams especially Rain teams. Against the latter, I would play weather battles switching Ninetails and Exeggutor since Exeguttor resists Water type attacks and Ninetails with Ice. If I'm not playing Ninetails, Dusknoir will just have to set the Sun up or TR while Exeggutor uses Protect, TR being the better choice since most Rain teams runs Swift Swim.

    Ninetails + everything else
    >Obviously it's a Sun Team so Ninetails would support everything in this team. As I have said earlier, Ninetails plays a defensive role. Always WoW over Heat Wave. Dusknoir would always take the lead, only to be substituted by Ninetails when it faints. I rarely come to a position when I have to play both Ninetails and Dusknoir at the same time.
  2. old man

    old man On Guard!!!

    Just a quick note I see that you don't have a counter for other Sun abusers. Air Ballon Heatran or a flash fire poke will have great fun against your team
  3. APTX4869

    APTX4869 New Member

    I have counters for them.

    Against Air Balloon Heatran, Sawsbuck can reach him with a Jump Kick (pun intended). I don't have any trouble against him since he's faster than Heatran even without Chlorophyll buff. That's the main reason why I choose him over Shifrty during play test.

    Against opposing Flash Fire and Fire type pokemon, I have Rhyperior to deal with them. Even with Air Balloon Heatran, I can 2HKO him since he can't deal that much damage against him because of his resistance to it (even with a Flash Cannon aimed at Rhyperior. it will only hit him for x1.5 damage) I'll just use Rock Slide and EQ consecutively.

    Against other sun abusers especially Chlorophyll, I have Dusknoir's Trick Room to deal them with. Do note that my team runs in the midrange speed, so Trick Room doesn't hurt their tactics that much.
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2013
  4. Shreyas

    Shreyas Well-Known Member

    At first glance, it seems as if your team is a bit weak to Latios and Garchomps, and none of your Pokemon can be reliable to live a Dragon Gem boosted Draco Meteor.
    Tyranitar is also a pretty big threat for your team since he can take out 4 of your Pokemon, and you don't have something reliable to switch into against one.

    Anyway, to rate a little further, I'll need to either battle this team or battle with this team since it uses some Pokemon I am unfamiliar with.
  5. APTX4869

    APTX4869 New Member

    Against those kinds of dragons, my strategy is to TR them and counter attack from there. If they choose to use it as against Dusknoir, the ghost can sponge it leaving them less of a Dragon Gem.

    As against Tyranitar, removing sandstream is not a must but it'll help. Playing Sawsbuck against him even under Sandstorm can 1HKO him with Jump Kick. If I choose not to play with Sawsbuck, I'd have to go with Rhyperior. WoW and EQ can stall him out. If playing with Exeggutor, the coconut tree can take 2 hits of Crunch before going down which enables me to place Seeds and Protect on the next turn.

    Here's some vids that I was able to save:


  6. Shreyas

    Shreyas Well-Known Member

    I feel that relying on Dusknoir to live Dragon Gem Draco Meteors is a bit of a gamble.

    The damage calcs:
    252SpAtk Dragon Gem lvl 50 Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 252HP/40SpDef lvl 50 Dusknoir (Neutral): 88% - 105% (135 - 160 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 32% chance to OHKO.
    252SpAtk Dragon Gem lvl 50 Hydreigon (+SAtk) Draco Meteor vs 252HP/40SpDef lvl 50 Dusknoir (Neutral): 94% - 112% (144 - 171 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 70% chance to OHKO.

    I suggest that you may want to buff up his SpD a little more to live those attacks if you want him to take the blow, and maybe even consider pain split?
  7. APTX4869

    APTX4869 New Member

    I'm not saying that I'm just relying just on Dusknoir to sponge DM and Trick Room, I can still counter attack it with my other pokes like a surprise Chlorophyll Sawsbuck dealing STAB Return as against Latios or a Jump Kick with Hydreigon. Besides Draco Meteor's downside (as well as Dragon Gem Dragon Pulse) hits only a single target, from that I can also make a counter attack from either of the two pokemon that I have left. Dusknoir can be sacrificed (as my usual tactics go).

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