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Super Training/EV/IV Thread

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Rhonder

Well-Known Member
Agree with the second part, disagree with the first part. No doubt for a starter its faster to build an average pokemon with EVs and move but if comparing IV breeding and EV training it'll definitely be IV breeding.
1. IV breeding includes inheriting moves where the pokemon can't learn naturally
2. EVs can be changed even at lvl 100 and does affect total stats where IVs cannot be changed once you received the egg unless you hack the game.
3. 4 EV=1 point of stat at lvl 100, 1 IV= 1 point of stat at lvl 100. Maximum reach for IVs = 31x6x4 = equivalent to 744 EV, where EV training cap at 510.

Eventhough IV breeding are time consuming but it's only hard at the beginning. Once you get your first flawless pokemon it can be used in cross breeding with different species but same egg grp to turn your target pokemons into flawless IVs easily.

While learning to IV breed is important at some point, for someone just learning to build "good" pokemon, I definitely feel like EV training is far more important to pick up first. While I see your point about having flawless IVs across the board giving more boosts than EVs overall, that's looking at it in a very advanced way that's not necessary for new comers. Not all pokemon need all of their stats maxed out for example. Having a 31 attack stat on an Alakazam for example is nice to look at, but not really doing much for the pokemon itself.

Similarly, for any given stat, IVs can boost them up to 31 points total where as putting 252 EVs in a stat will boost its value by 63 points. IVs are certainly important, but when you put the boost total like that (Having 31 IVs across the board being equivalent to 744 EVs) you imply that you're similarly evenly distributing the EV spread, 744/6= 124, which would essentially be like giving your pokemon 10 of each of the vitamins then training each stat by a little more. The end result is a pokemon that has EVs something similar to what you get playing through the story line. As bad as that sounds, when I was explaining EV training to my friend a few years ago the first thing he did was go out and give his Aerodactyl as many random vitamins as he could xD it's like noooo you're missing the point.

I do have to agree though that with this generation and with all of the nice tools available (Destiny Knot mechanics, flawless IV pokemon being available every where including dittos in certain friend safaris) IV breeding will take a lot less time to learn and get into this generation. I still stand by my argument that EV training is more important though.
 
While learning to IV breed is important at some point, for someone just learning to build "good" pokemon, I definitely feel like EV training is far more important to pick up first. While I see your point about having flawless IVs across the board giving more boosts than EVs overall, that's looking at it in a very advanced way that's not necessary for new comers. Not all pokemon need all of their stats maxed out for example. Having a 31 attack stat on an Alakazam for example is nice to look at, but not really doing much for the pokemon itself.

Similarly, for any given stat, IVs can boost them up to 31 points total where as putting 252 EVs in a stat will boost its value by 63 points. IVs are certainly important, but when you put the boost total like that (Having 31 IVs across the board being equivalent to 744 EVs) you imply that you're similarly evenly distributing the EV spread, 744/6= 124, which would essentially be like giving your pokemon 10 of each of the vitamins then training each stat by a little more. The end result is a pokemon that has EVs something similar to what you get playing through the story line. As bad as that sounds, when I was explaining EV training to my friend a few years ago the first thing he did was go out and give his Aerodactyl as many random vitamins as he could xD it's like noooo you're missing the point.

I do have to agree though that with this generation and with all of the nice tools available (Destiny Knot mechanics, flawless IV pokemon being available every where including dittos in certain friend safaris) IV breeding will take a lot less time to learn and get into this generation. I still stand by my argument that EV training is more important though.

Oh well guess this will only become an infinite loop if this continues. Anyway just pointing out there I did agree EV its good for starters and no its totally different from vitamin spread caz in the vitamin case it has a total cap where theres no effects on others stats in IV plus those few more points comes in handy in epic battles =].
 

Rhonder

Well-Known Member
Oh well guess this will only become an infinite loop if this continues. Anyway just pointing out there I did agree EV its good for starters and no its totally different from vitamin spread caz in the vitamin case it has a total cap where theres no effects on others stats in IV plus those few more points comes in handy in epic battles =].

Yeah, mostly just a difference of opinion in teaching it seems xD Especially since we both personally know how to do both (or at least I would assume so since we even had this conversation lol) But yeah max speed is always important (unless in trick room) and while max offensive/defensive ivs aren't necessary, nothing's worse than having your opponent live at like 2 hp, or conversely nothing's better than living at like 1 yourself xD
 

Magixx

Active Member
how do u get reset bags? and do u have to manually count the ev's a pokemon get each time? or is it displayed somewhere in the super training cause i cant find it
 

Douchemon

Scientist
I got a Reset bag randomly from punching the empty one. Havent found use for it yet. It's also easier to do the super training to aquire Large bags to EV train lower level pokes.
 

saldu

Well-Known Member
I've noticed in the Mechanics hub - New breeding mechanics section it says "if you have one of the parents hold the Destiny Knot item, then 5 IVs total from either parent will be guaranteed to be transferred" which is not true since there is still a big chance that mutations occurs.

I'm currently breeding with two Charmanders.
Modest Male with IV 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Destiny Knot)
Modest Female with IV 31/27/31/31/31/31 (Everstone)

Although it does brings a higher chance to pass down high IVs yet outcomes can be 0 in some stats in certain cases or not maxed out in 2-3 areas.

Moreover, isn't it 6 IVs (HP has IV count as well) instead of 5 IVs? Or does destiny knot only work on 5 IVs.

Have any1 tried with two destiny knots and see if it stacks? I've tested power item + destiny knot and they do stack effects but I didnt try with two destiny knots caz i only have one.

@bolded oart: strange, it shouldn't be possible to have 3 non-31 IVs if those parents' stats are correct.
Worst case would be: 4x 31 + 1x 27 from destiny knot, then 1 random 0-31 IV.
 
strange, it shouldn't be possible to have 3 non-31 IVs if those parents' stats are correct.
Worst case would be: 4x 31 + 1x 27 from destiny knot, then 1 random 0-31 IV.

well thats what ive been getting ='[
just tested out with two destiny knot parents, seems even worse. i.e. more likely to get 3+ stats not reaching 31
I wonder if destiny knot might hav a chance to get randoms and stacking 2 actually make that happen more often.
 
how do u get reset bags? and do u have to manually count the ev's a pokemon get each time? or is it displayed somewhere in the super training cause i cant find it

Ive posted this earlier on this page #828
 

Maxx86

Member
Guys, I need a couple of clarifications about breeding, i hope anyone can help me here! :)
first, I know that without using the destiny knot or any power item, the baby inherits 3 IV's from its parents.
Can you confirm that it's always either 2 from father and 1 from mother and viceversa, and that it's not possible that all of the IV's come from just one of its parents?
And now, about the destiny knot.
the baby inherits 5 IV's, right? How are they picked? Completely random, or 2 from one of the parents, 3 from the other one, or stuff like that?
Thanks in advance!
 
Guys, I need a couple of clarifications about breeding, i hope anyone can help me here! :)
first, I know that without using the destiny knot or any power item, the baby inherits 3 IV's from its parents.
Can you confirm that it's always either 2 from father and 1 from mother and viceversa, and that it's not possible that all of the IV's come from just one of its parents?
And now, about the destiny knot.
the baby inherits 5 IV's, right? How are they picked? Completely random, or 2 from one of the parents, 3 from the other one, or stuff like that?
Thanks in advance!

1 from dad 1 from mum and the 3rd one is random (either from mum or dad)
all i know abt destiny knot is its not 100%
 

arealmon

Member
Back again, with Another Mewtwo

Ok, I'm back again. After many (many) soft resets I found a Mewtwo with the following. Let me know if he is worth keeping or not! I know his defense is crap, but the rest seems good. His SpA is not maxed like I would want but he gets so much SpA anyway, I don't know if it matters. Should I keep this one and change up the way I super train him to compensate for areas he is lacking in, and if so what kind of numbers would you go with in terms of training? Thanks for the help!

I would also like to mention that the calculator on this site says that once he is 100, and without super training, he would have 371 SpA, and 296 Speed. I don't know if that is good though... Again thanks for the help lol

Modest
Alert to sounds

HP: 31
Atk: 7
Def: 9
Sp.A: 25
Sp.D: 31
Speed: 31

Hidden Power: Dark
 
Last edited:
Ok, I'm back again. After many (many) soft resets I found a Mewtwo with the following. Let me know if he is worth keeping or not! I know his defense is crap, but the rest seems good. His SpA is not maxed like I would want but he gets so much SpA anyway, I don't know if it matters. Should I keep this one and change up the way I super train him to compensate for areas he is lacking in, and if so what kind of numbers would you go with in terms of training? Thanks for the help!

I would also like to mention that the calculator on this site says that once he is 100, and without super training, he would have 371 SpA, and 296 Speed. I don't know if that is good though... Again thanks for the help lol

Modest
Alert to sounds

HP: 31
Atk: 7
Def: 9
Sp.A: 25
Sp.D: 31
Speed: 31

Hidden Power: Dark

does look sexy =]
keep it if u dont wanna waste more time on him xD
if i were u ill go for full S.atk and speed to smash everything in ur way.
since its so crap in defense it'll get one shotted anyway.
better off try ur luck on one shotting everything b4 ur mewtwo gets killed
 

kosthedin

Active Member
everything above is true
I was playing with super training on the second day of the game release and was trying to keep track if it stops at 252

After a few attempts it shows it does stop at 252 since I gain less than 12 points in lvl 3 games and still able to get 6 points in some stats after two were capped. i.e. working backwards (510-6)/2 =252
So should I keep track of the EVs or not. You didn't give a straight answer.
 
So should I keep track of the EVs or not. You didn't give a straight answer.

sorry my bad

nah u dont need to keep track if ya planning on max out
it stops at 252 in super training. e.g. if its on 250 and u did a 12 points training, u gain 2 points only and it shows u on the below screen.
 

LLtacx

Member
Hi there, don't know if i should be in this thread or not. But i'm needing some help to build a Casual team for Wi-Fi Battles (don't care about the best of the best OU).

I do however want to use a Dragonite (choice band). I just have no idea what else to put in my team except for maybe Sandslash (i love the guy) as a rapid spinner!

Some help please :D?
 

arealmon

Member
does look sexy =]
keep it if u dont wanna waste more time on him xD
if i were u ill go for full S.atk and speed to smash everything in ur way.
since its so crap in defense it'll get one shotted anyway.
better off try ur luck on one shotting everything b4 ur mewtwo gets killed

Ugh, I guess I'll try for one more until I see stats I think may be good. I have been doing this forever, but i am a perfectionist lol. I think if I get another one like this though I will just keep it. I have spent so much time on this already, I might as well go for broke haha.

Moments like this make me miss the battery days lol. Eventually you had to settle for something haha.

Thanks for the help!

I'll be back! (it'll probably be a while.....)
 
i have: froakie
Rash with 31 atk, def, spatk, speed
timid with 31 hp, atk, spatk, speed
and i also have a bold frogadier with 31 in hp, atk, def, spatk, and speed
 

Mr.Pokeman

Well-Known Member
I've noticed in the Mechanics hub - New breeding mechanics section it says "if you have one of the parents hold the Destiny Knot item, then 5 IVs total from either parent will be guaranteed to be transferred" which is not true since there is still a big chance that mutations occurs.

I'm currently breeding with two Charmanders.
Modest Male with IV 31/31/31/31/31/31 (Destiny Knot)
Modest Female with IV 31/27/31/31/31/31 (Everstone)

Although it does brings a higher chance to pass down high IVs yet outcomes can be 0 in some stats in certain cases or not maxed out in 2-3 areas.

Moreover, isn't it 6 IVs (HP has IV count as well) instead of 5 IVs? Or does destiny knot only work on 5 IVs.

Have any1 tried with two destiny knots and see if it stacks? I've tested power item + destiny knot and they do stack effects but I didnt try with two destiny knots caz i only have one.

I believe it's possible for both parents to pass down IVs for the same stat; there are 12 IVs between the two parents, 2 in each stat. Destiny knot ensures 5 are passed down, but not necessarily a unique 5. Say for example you get an offspring that's 31/xx/xx/xx/31/31; it appears as though only three IVs were passed down but it's possible that, for example, the speed and HP were passed down from both parents along with the special defence from one of them. That's still 5 IVs passed down, just two are doubles. Mechanically it's working, it's just annoying and unlucky.
 

RNG_Reporter

Well-Known Member
Ugh, I guess I'll try for one more until I see stats I think may be good. I have been doing this forever, but i am a perfectionist lol. I think if I get another one like this though I will just keep it. I have spent so much time on this already, I might as well go for broke haha.

Moments like this make me miss the battery days lol. Eventually you had to settle for something haha.

Thanks for the help!

I'll be back! (it'll probably be a while.....)



Mewtwo automatically starts with 3 31 IV'd stats.

I wouldn't stop until you get at least 30 in the main stats of Mewtwo, then 25+ in the others. And if you're going Modest, obv who cares about Attack.

If you don't care too much about flawless.. get at least 17+ in the defenses.
 
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