1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

Suzumushi Tsuishiki: Enma Kōrogi

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by loco1234, Mar 14, 2013.

  1. loco1234


    Hello and welcome to... Well, I say this a lot but this is without question the most bizarre team I've yet made. Which is REALLY saying something, and the reason why I'm RMTing it despite the fact that I still use (and completely love) my Damp Rock team. Bonus points to anyone who recognizes the name, and even more (possiby even a cookie) to anyone who can tell me why the name fits the team. But that's besides the point. This team started out around a simple concept that is nonetheless extremely odd-seeming to me, Anti-Politoed Heatran. It actually works (unless the opposing Toed is Scarfed anyway) pretty well, although Magma Storm's accuracy trolls hard. The basic idea is to trap, change the weather and kill. It's not even that difficult, since Heatran outspeeds non-Scarfed Toeds (ScarfToed is the only common Toed that bothers with Speed investment really), so once I trap I'm usually good. Anyway, to the team


    Ninetales @ Air Balloon
    Trait: Drought
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Sunny Day
    - Fire Blast
    - SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

    Ninetales is pretty much obligatory on a Sun team, so here's mine. Standard offensive Tales, which I chose due to me not using Dugtrio. Sunny Day is more or less standard on Ninetales, since it makes the all-important weather war quite a bit easier. Tyranitar and Politoed hate eating Solarbeam, so nailing them with Sunny Day on the switch generally sends them running again and gets me a free switch to something. Against Rain teams, I like to go to Heatran and trap Toed on the switch. Or trap what they have out and kill it anyway, either works. Fire Blast is (double) STAB and even off Ninetales it's gonna hurt. Hidden Power Ice, finally, is the reason for using a Timid nature - Spe-tying Positive-natured non-ScarfMence and outspeeding Neutral. And OHKOing with HP Ice. It also hits Gliscor, Landorus (both) and other dragons I didn't already mention.


    Lilligant (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 196 Spd / 252 SAtk / 60 Def
    Modest Nature
    - Sleep Powder
    - Quiver Dance
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Ah, Lilligant. I actually prefer her to Venusaur. She's generally worse, less power, less coverage, but she's also not completely dependent on Sun courtesy of Quiver Dance. Venusaur kinda needs the Spe boost. Lilligant keeps it even if I lose the sun and come on, Politoed doesn't wanna take a Giga Drain at +1 from anything. And besides, I also have Sleep Powder to mess with things and give me setup time. Giga Drain is, as mentioned, my boosting move. HP Fire allows Lilligant to run through the majority of the Rain playstyle with Giga Drain hammering the Waters and Grounds (Gastrodon, I'm looking at you) and HP Fire for punching through the Steels. For the Sand teams, Giga Drain rips into the Ground and Rock-types and HP Fire punches through the Steels. Sure, Lilligant may miss out on some important players in there, but she can nonetheless punch huge holes in either opposing weather team regardless of how the climate looks. Although the SDef boost for Rock-types in Sand can be problematic, and she needs Sun for HP Fire to do its job properly.


    Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
    Trait: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 112 HP / 248 Atk / 148 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Horn Leech
    - Nature Power
    - Return
    - Swords Dance

    Oh Sawsbuck... The flagship Chlorophyll physical behemoth. We all know Sawsbuck, I think. Its job is more or less the same as Lilligant's: Murder things. Sawsbuck is, however, much more reliant on the Sun than Lilligant is. That means that while he can certainly maul Politoed and Tyranitar, he has trouble against several faster threats when the Sun isn't shining. Nonetheless, he is a monster after one SD. I'm using Nature Power over Jump Kick because it hits everything I was Jump Kicking besides Skarmory anyway, Skarmory is not a problem, and it gets me around Fire-types quite nicely. They like to come in to try and scare me off. Horn Leech is my first STAB and recovery move, offsetting LO recoil as well, also my go-to Politoed killer. And Water-killer in general. Return is my strongest move after STAB and seriously hurts things.


    Donphan @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Shard
    - Stone Edge

    Sun hates two things above almost all else: Stealth Rock and Dragons. Stealth Rock cripples a lot of powerful Sun sweepers and Sunmons in general, and does a sizable chunk to Ninetales as well. So Rapid Spin support is almost essential. Dragons can tank both of Sun's favorite STABs, Fire and Grass. So I needed something to reliably get rid of them (Sorry Ninetales, you don't cut it). To these ends, I added an offensive Donphan to my team. It carries Rapid Spin to blow their hazards away and it carries Ice Shard to do a serious number to those Dragons. It also revenge-kills very nicely. Earthquake is STAB and extremely strong coming from Donphan. Stone Edge completes the infamous EdgeQuake combo for great coverage.


    Salamence @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
    Naive Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Wish

    Let the strangeness commence... This particular Salamence is something I stumbled upon quite by accident. My two main sweepers, although they both carry draining moves for recovery, do also carry Life Orb. That can be taxing on the HP. I also wanted some more offensive presence (this team is rather offensive, as Sun tends to be). I also had no real Physical defense. This Salamence actually solves, to a degree, every one of these problems. It's similar to MixMence, but with Wish over Dragon Dance. I've found Salamence actually gets a lot of opportunities to fire off a Wish and though they're only for a little under 167 that's still pretty helpful. I can come in on something I scare off and Wish on the switch. I can Intimidate something it cripples and Wish on the switch. Then I still have the offenses to do some real damage to the opponent as well, with max Spd and max Atk. It may seem gimmicky, but it's really fun and it actually works with decent prediction. Dragon Claw is here for reliable STAB (I don't wanna lock myself into Outrage, however powerful it may be). Fire Blast gets pseudo-STAB and roasts the Steels. Earthquake rounds out the set by hitting for 4x damage the only thing that actually resists the other 2 moves - Heatran. Even though it isn't completely meant for offense, I can usually KO at least something with it too, if I don't need to Wish. That Wish has helped Sawsbuck or Lilligant come in a lot easier enough times to justify itself to me though. Great for giving Lilligant some room to breathe in case the first Sleep Powder misses.


    Heatran @ Grass Gem
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Magma Storm
    - SolarBeam
    - Sunny Day
    - Substitute

    And the other very strange set is run on my Heatran. The general idea here is to predict the switch to their auto-inducer, Magma Storm it and then Solarbeam for kills. This particular set has no trouble with Politoeds, as I get the Sub up, Sunny Day and basically force it to come back in and get trapped. Then Sunny Day again and finally Solarbeam. SpecsToed has no chance, as it's outsped and OHKOed after 2 turns of Storm damage puts it down to around 75%. Defensive Toed have literally one thing they can do, and it results in them dying anyway - Perish Song. And if I happen to KO before the song does, I get to keep my Heatran for all the good it can (potentially) do against the rest of a Rain team in the sun. The whole idea behind this Heatran is winning the weather war, and I've only lost said war once in about 20 fights (of which I have lost about 7 now), and the one time I lost the weather war Lilligant swept anyway. Against Rain, no less.

    I greatly appreciate your taking the time to read this, I've only briefly used this team but I have had a blast with it so far. All comments welcome!​
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
  2. Rosez66

    Rosez66 Ace trainer

    Seems alright. However if salamenace is more of a defensive pitot then why not invest more in HP? The more HP the better the wish surly? Otherwise you may aswell use Eviolite Chansey for one of th ever wishes in the game?

    Your team also seems very SS weak, I suggest the nature power over high jump kick. Alot more reliable.

    Also on lillgiant. I really dislike sleep powder. It is inaccurate and for a sweeper I recommend another coverage move. I don't know it movepool but coverage may come in handy over sleep powder which may end up missing.
  3. loco1234


    Salamence is meant to be an offensive Wish passer. The logic there is that given the number of switches it forces, it has a very easy time getting a Wish off to give to a teammate. I think its Wishes clock in at 167, which isn't huge, but it's extremely useful for Lilligant and Sawsbuck, gives them a cushion to switch in easier. Salamence is EVd offensively to clean up if I need it to, it still rocks for that. Defensively, Chansey or Blissey would be a lot better, but they're also setup fodder, which is a problem.

    By SS, do you mean Sandstorm? I've faced a few Sand teams, and they haven't been too tough. Lilligant's swept them all. Every single one has thought it carried HP Ice.

    As for Sleep Powder, it's there to give Lilligant a free turn to set up. It's much harder for Lilli to get that boost without it. And Lilligant's coverage is literally nonexistent outside Grass and Hidden Power besides, so I haven't got much else to use that slot for. Trust me, Sleep Powder is pretty necessary. The accuracy is annoying but it's pretty staple on both Lilligant and Venusaur. And even if I come in on something I force out and pick up a QD there, I can sleep the next Pokemon for +2, at which point Lilligant's really hard to stop. It's also saved my life way too many times (DDLumDragonite decided it was good for 2 DDs... It was wrong...)

    I do agree that Nature Power would do a lot more for Sawsbuck than Jump Kick does though, all I'd really miss is the Skarmory neutrality and 4x to T-Tar, but Horn Leech OHKOs Tar anyway and Lilligant destroys Skarmory.

    And in testing I found Sub far better than Rocks on Heatran. Will make these changes now.
  4. Ðew™

    Ðew™ Definition of insanity

    Damage Calc that's from pokemon showdown

    First of all, you are stomped by rain. Keldeo in the rain is in no way threatened and will eat all of this team alive. The honey badger that's known as terrakion 1-2hkoes everything other than donphan, having a greater chance with rocks and doing even more with a choice band. Infernape, though not as common as it used to be, proves also to be a threat and is a major problem for most of the team.

    For changes, you've really gotta add checks for other weathers. I'd suggest dugtrio over one of your sweepers to trap weather inducers. I do agree with nature power over jump kick on saws so you have something to hurt ferrothorn and infernape.
  5. loco1234


    Thank you for the calc, that's exactly what I needed. Bookmarking ^.^

    Infernape is a problem, yeah. I don't imagine it being as huge a deal with Nature Power though, as Nature Power off Sawsbuck OHKOs quite comfortably, 117.06 - 138.56% and I will outspeed under the sun.

    For trapping opposing inducers, Heatran wrecks Politoed just fine once I know what kind of Toed it is, the only tricky bit being getting it trapped. I outspeed all but Scarfed, which I haven't seen yet. I do know Solarbeam will OHKO after Magma Storm and 1 round of trap damage even if Magma Storm hit in the rain though. Tyranitar is much less of a problem, mainly because Sand in general has been far easier to deal with than Rain.

    What would you suggest for dealing with Keldeo and Terrakion?
  6. Ðew™

    Ðew™ Definition of insanity


    I kinda like venusaur because of its natural bulk. You also get access to sleep talk so you have it as an option over lilligant as a sleep inducing boosting sweeper if you do so choose to go with the growth set. Nonetheless, this is more for keldeo.

    Banded terrakion pretty much kills anything that switches in, so you're probably gonna have to get rid of salamence in favor of a defensive gliscor or landorus t just to have a check for it.
  7. loco1234


    I'll look into Gliscor and Lando then, thanks!

Share This Page