T/S/S Remake

[White Lotus]

The first team i ever built was a T/S/S team on FR because i thought Tyranitar was the coolest poke ever. My main problem was i didn't have Jirachi and was always lacking that really good Special Sweeper that was immune to Sandstorm. With D/P around the corner <still haven't played it so these builds are on spec only> and Lucario being able to fill that role i thought i'd throw this at the wall and see what sticks...

*I'm adding in an IV line to show what 3 Stats have 31 in IV* - I'm omitting the EV line as i've yet to even play D/P so i'll get a better feel for the magic #'s then. For now just assume i'm using a CB build for offensive pokes <252 Att - Satt / Spd and 4 HP> and a standard Max HP / Split Def - Sdef for the Defensive ones <252 HP and 126 Def / Sdef>.

Tyranitar w/ Leftovers
'Sandstream' : Sandstorm upon entering battle.
IV's: HP 31 / Att 31 / Spd 31
<Adament : +Att / -Sat>
* Dragon Dance
* Crunch
* Thunder Fang / Rock Slide / Stone Edge
* Ice Fang / Thunder Fang

Main focus of team. Sandstorm sets up other pokes. It sounds wierd saying this but this guys actually better then he used to be when he was 1 of the most feared pokes around. This thing hits crazy hard with the best Stat-Up <Dragon Dance> in the game and now a STAB <Crunch> that lowers Def - Still the old Rock/Ground combo - And the ultra cool 3 Fangs which just gives him crazy flexability. This guy is basically BROKEN.

Gaburaisu / Kaburaisu w/ ChoiceBand
'Sand Veil' : Increase Evasion in Sandstorm.
IV's : HP 31 / Att 31 / Spd 31
<Adament : +Att / -Sat>
* Earthquake
* Dragon Claw
* Fire Fang
* Shadow Claw / Roar / Aerial Ace / Rock Slide

Heavy Artillery. Lead-Off <Replaces Aerodactyl> Gets good synergy from 'Sand Veil'.

Lucario w/ Leftovers
'Inner Focus' : Immune to Flinching.
IV's : HP 31 / Sat 31 / Spd 31
<Modest : +Sat / -Att>
* Pulse Bomb
* Water Pulse
* Shadow Ball / Dark Pulse
* Calm Mind <wish it was Scheme>

Special Sweep. Calm Mind up and Bomb Away. Regretably not original but there are so few Pokes capable of Special Sweeping while being immune to Sandstorm. <Wishes for a Jirachi>

Skarmory w/ Leftovers
'Keen Eye' : Immune to Accuracy Reduction.
IV's : HP 31 / Att 31 / Def 31
<Adament : +Att / -Sat> or <Impish : +Def / -Sat>
* Drill Peck
* Spikes
* Whirlwind
* Rest / Feather Rest <can't decide if i need status recover>

Physical Wall. Obviously Spike / Whirlwind fits really well with Sandstorm. (I'd like to give the geniuses that make these games a Standing Ovation for giving Fearow Whirlwind as an egg move allowing the Mack Daddy of all birds to have it's cake and eat it too. It's more aestetics then anything else considering <Roar = Whirlwind - Soundproofers> but it just fits a bird better.) Can't decide between Instant Healing or Status Recovery. It's a shame it doesn't have Early Bird as an ability making this decision a lot easier.

Dotaitos w/ Leftovers
'Overgrow' : When HP is low - Grass moves x1.5
IV's : 31 HP / 31 Def / 31 Sdf
<Careful : +Sdf / -Sat>
* Dig
* Sand Tomb
* Toxic
* Leech Seed

Special Wall <although not great> This is my first pretty unorthodox poke. The idea is to take full advantage of Sandstorm. Ideally i could land a Sand Tomb <Psuedo Block> on a poke that can't break him and then Leech Seed / Toxic up and if he still won't drop use Dig as attack / stall tactic. Only Leech Seeder immune to Sandstorm.

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Last slot is still open but for now i'm thinking Cursepert. Although Magneton / Nosepass / Enperato / Metagross / etc. Of course the rest of the team will determine which attacking moves i use for Tyranitar but for now i'll be using <Ice / Electric> Fang for type coverage for the rest of my team. Please don't give me standard Earthquake / Rock Slide on Tyranitar 'always' because i obviously know that and i'm trying to go a different route. If i had Jirachi or something else capable of <Bolt/Beam>ing I would go that route. What do you guys think?

 

[SapphireL]

Dragon Pulse/Substitute > Water Pulse for Lucario. :/ Water Pulse is weak.

Dig should never be used. In two turns, you're doing 60 damage (while in 2 turns with EQ, you're doing 200)... and it's a free switch-in for the opponent. Consider a Curse Dotaitos... with something like Seed Bomb/EQ/Curse/Leech Seed... (Stone Edge/Rock Slide could go in there too...)

 

[White Lotus]

SapphireL wrote:
Dig should never be used. In two turns, you're doing 60 damage (while in 2 turns with EQ, you're doing 200)... and it's a free switch-in for the opponent.

Ah. You're missing the point. First off the damage is irrelevant. The prize is: he is underground for 1 turn - making any poke that doesn't have Earthquake unable to damage him. I would basically be using it as a Protect / Detect that does damage at the end. All the while Sand Tomb / Toxic / Leech Seed / Sandstorm will be wittling away at thier HP. As for the free switch-in you are also missing the point on Sand-Tomb. The damage is just the cherry on top - the prize there is <TRAPPING> the opponent to get 'Nickel & Dimed' by my slow burners.

People hate annoyers but i have a soft spot for them. I get strange enjoyment out of Slowly Killing the other poke. I know that this set is very unorthodox but i also hate when peeps just use the standard movesets as i think it gets boring. You are right that for an attacker Dig is garbage but i'm after the secondary effect more.

You should look at the moveset like this.
* Protect <+60 Damage>
* Block <+15 Damage per turn>
* Toxic
* Leech Seed

But the Moveset you suggested for Dotaitos is probably the one i'm gonna use through the first run before i can really breed a killer team. I'll have to check his page to see the moves he learns naturally.

<EDIT> Oh yeah. You are absolutely right about Dragon Pulse > Water Pulse. I went the Water Pulse route because i needed a Water attack. If i use Swampert as my last poke i'd definitely use Dragon Pulse.

 

[ludicolo_kid]

Dotaitos is not a Special Wall by any means. 95 Hp and 85 Sp Def is average, added to the fact that it has lots of weaks, notably the 4x Ice one which many Special sweepers have. Your team is eaten alive by any bulky water whatsoever.

 

[White Lotus]

Special Wall <although not great>

I think is exactly what i wrote. You are right about the fact that he's not a typical Special Wall. What that really meant was i would EV train him like a Special Wall.

Water's in general always pose a large threat to any T/S/S team because most of the pokes immune to sandstorm are Rock / Ground leaving them vulnerable to Water / Ice. Add into the fact not many of them have Electric / Grass moves and yeah i'm quite aware of the problem. Do you have any suggestions of a poke that can wall Water / Ice moves and special attacks in general that still have immunity to Sandstorm?

 

[ludicolo_kid]

You do know that it is not necessary to have every Pokemon on your team Immune to Sandstorm don't you? Swampert is best suited ot your team and is bog standard on TSS teams.

However, Enperuto resists Water and Ice and so could make a handy addition i suppose.

 

[Frost Nova]

I was about to suggest Swampert when that forum lag kicked in. Damn.

Speaking about Enperuto, Grass Rope ReSTalker works extremely well against other bulky waters.

Enperuto@lefties
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Grass Rope
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

 

[White Lotus]

ludicolo_kid wrote:
You do know that it is not necessary to have every Pokemon on your team Immune to Sandstorm don't you?

Yeah - I know. It just feels like if all the pokes don't fit the theme then what's the point of the theme. It's like a snowball. If i use Kureseria as a Special Wall the next thing i know i'm looking at Lucario thinking he's a pretty good Special Sweep but you know whos really good... you see where this is going. I have considered Porygon Z Modest - <ThunderBolt / IceBeam / Scheme / Rest> and using <Quake / Slide> on Tyranitar but i need a <Bolt / Beam> option on a team otherwise i'd feel naked.

Frost Nova wrote:
Speaking about Enperuto, Grass Rope ReSTalker works extremely well against other bulky waters.

Enperuto@lefties
Bold Nature
- Surf
- Grass Rope
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

W-O-W - 'Now that is a spicy meatball.'

I love that suggestion out loud. It covers a walling of problem moves <Ice / Water>. Attack types i'm missing <Water / Grass>. And a Stallish Nature <Rest / Sleep Talk>. Not to mention the cool factor of Sleep Talk.

If i was a dog - someone would need to get the hose because i'd be humping that suggestion's leg.

Huge Props to Frost Nova. Consistently one of the posters around here. In my opinion the best.

White Lotus <Bows Before Knowledge>

 

[Raito]

CM Dootakun/Claydol make decent Special Walls that have a Storm resist.

 

[White Lotus]

I actually did consider Claydol.

He's got the cool 'backwards' special <Rock / Ground> combo going with Ancient Power / Land Power. He also has Cosmic Power which is a huge plus. Ice Beam / Psychic / Rapid Spin <to a lesser extent>. He definitely has cool options. If he had Thunderbolt i'd feel a lot more comfy with him although Charge Beam has given me a thought of 'yeah that could work'. I could even see a <Cosmic Power / Toxic / Stealth Rock / Rest> thing kind of working. After writing this all down he definitely has more options then i had previously noticed. Unfortunately he has a lot of <2x> weaknesses and more importantly the wrong ones like Water / Grass / Ice which is already this teams soft spot.

I'll play around with it.

Haven't even looked at Dootakun although he'd definitely be using a psuedo-haze like Hypnosis to take advantage of Spike Coverage. His ability i'm not so crazy about. <not enough Steel>

 

[Raito]

His ability is easily one of the best in the game

 

[White Lotus]

Didn't realize he had 'Levitate' as well as the <1/2 Fire Damage> one.

I was talking about the Fire one.

 

[Frost Nova]

Didn't realize he had 'Levitate' as well as the <1/2 Fire Damage> one.

I was talking about the Fire one.

Levitate > Heatproof IMO. Ground attacks are staples in non-Fighting physical sweepers, as opposed to Fire moves on special sweepers. With Levitate at least Dootakun can switch into physical sweepers.

Dootakun@lefties
Impish / Careful Nature
- Hypnosis
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock / Rest
- Rest / Earthquake

 

[White Lotus]

Don't worry. I definitely know how good 'Levitate' is. I have a (2v2) team built around Skill Swap Gengar giving it to Metagross / Slaking.

'Fireproof' is like a watered down 'Thick Fat' and the best thing about 'Thick Fat' is the Ice Beam protection. I just didn't go to his page and look at his abilities. Total Brain Cramp on my part.

As for Dootakun - It's a shame he doesn't have Nightmare to insure the switch because with <3 layers> of Spikes + Stealth Rock the opponent might say i'm taking the chance with your Gyro Balls.

Anymore suggestions...Please keep em coming because this is giving me lots of options i didn't think of. Thanks guys.