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Takeshi Shudo's blogs [no shipping debates]

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by CyberCubed, Oct 21, 2011.

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  1. deathseer

    deathseer Oh, u mad bro?

    Yeah, Misty is downright intolerable for me now. Back when I was 10 I didn't mind her at all. But now, whenever I see her on screen I just wish she would stop talking and just fade out of the screen. The arguing, better than you, slapstick attitude just makes me sick of her, and even when she is mature she still comes off as snobbish.

    To this day I still wonder why some people presume her as some deep character that was the pinnacle of Pokemon writing.
     
  2. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    Some of you are speaking as if she's still on the show....
    Maybe I should repeat this to some of you all, cause some of you seem to have forgotten...
    She's been absent from the anime for YEARS now...Why are you speaking as if she's still there causing you pain, or hurting you somehow? Did you intentionally dig up old wounds to cut yourselves with?

    And maybe this is just me, but I think when you actually invest strong negative feelings such as hatred for an ink on paper, animated cartoon character...well, then...I think that you should just detach yourself from the anime altogether...Some of the same complaints and whining is the same things that we're hearing about Iris...If people want to express their liking of said character, let them! Don't try to agrue down someone saying, "Hey, this character was annoying when they were angry, and annoying when they were mature! They were boring, did NOTHING and contributed nothing to the plot! Because of that, you should NOT and will NOT like them! They didn't have a secondary side quest along side Ash's, so that character is irrelevant!!"

    No one's trying to shove anything down anyone's throat. No one is forcing you to like something that you don't have to like! People, we are all different and we like different things about this anime for different reasons! So if your opinion on what you like about the show differs from someone else's, don't have a heart attack! If you cannot peacefully convince someone to think otherwise of something on the show, move on! The sooner we realize this, the better off this unpleasable fandom will be.

    *stands down from soap box*
     
  3. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    I still like pre-Johto Misty when she was a fun character, its just that she was on the show at the wrong time.

    The original series was all about Ash, even moreso than Best Wishes is, and it was when the franchise just started. So the writers focused on Ash and the Pokemon, and as it would progress it would focus on the other characters more.

    And if you look at Brock, if Misty stayed that doesn't mean her character would get any more focus. Brock stayed after Johto and the writers barely did anything with him.
     
  4. munchlaxboy

    munchlaxboy Catching up on XY

    Brock was practically pointless being on the show for Advanced and Sinnoh. All he was there for (most of the time) was doing the motherly/caretaking work. As shown in OI, Brock wasn't needed! As we've all been saying, his goal as well as Misty's should have been more firmly established. If they were, I don't see any reason as to why either should have been cut.
     
  5. ~Upsidedown 403~

    ~Upsidedown 403~ Well-Known Member

    I have a question for you...Do you like Iris by any chance? So do you honestly think Misty would've been better off lashing out at Ash all the time? People can't STAND Iris' catchphrase "You're such a kid." People feel like Iris uses that against Ash to make herself look superior by comparison...Would you rather have that for Misty, and people would just think of her as being far too bitter or angry?? Or, to have Misty constantly bring up the bike over and over? Iris is being given a back story and somewhat of a side-quest along side Ash's, and that would've benefited Misty, but people can't stand Iris because they don't like her personality. They don't like how she's being developed...People HATE Iris, I mean they cannot stand her...You say Misty was on the wrong show? Heck, I couldn't DISAGREE more...It would probably be better if Misty and Iris switched places, but there can't be anything done about that now...

    And you've been watching this show for years, haven't you? You're a long time fan, you're supposed to know how this anime works. The writers expect us to abandon the anime and then a new generation of younger viewers takes our place. This show has ALWAYS been about Ash, that's never changed. It doesn't matter what saga you watch...Ash always gets the best storyline, best development, most screen time, etc...The ash-related things always come first, and last...Because with this show, you put your best foot forward, and you save the best for last...and that's ALWAYS been Ash.
     
  6. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    For start i disagree with those who claim how "Misty personality sucked after OI":Now i can understand that some may have liked only Misty going on rampage 24/7 slapping people and having zero tolerance which fits her description in early Kanto days but there was much more to her personality than just that and she definitely stayed funny and interesting character in Johto and Hoenn.She was still active and quirky being full of personality with taking care of baby pokemon allowing that different sides of personality come out on surface more being full of sarcasm and competitive streak,stubborn and witty,being passionate and adamant about things she likes, along with more of her girly side being showed which was nice contrast to her temper.We also get to see nurture side being explored more which was evidenced to exist when she first started taking care of Horsea back in the day.

    She went from short tempered girl which didnt had tolerance toward anything trying to cover her insecurity with temper in more mature and levelheaded character over time opening herself toward others with various sides of personality coming out on surface more aside from only temper.
    Because of starting to grow this also allowed for some great character development later on with Misty gaining sisters respect,getting over Gyarados fear,improving battling skills etc growing in tough character becoming more self confident while still having charm,humor and quirky side being passionate about battling,water pokemon,hobbies etc.

    I liked Misty equally both before and now having nice blend of spunky and playful yet more mature personality keeping enjoyable older traits while also being enriched with some new ones having nice mix of tomboyish and girly side.
    Dont know about others but i prefer characters which doesnt stay flat and one dimensional having more to them.

    Also while im not expecting anyone to agree i think Misty definitely deserves second chance in this show,being great character who was not given justice and definitely has potential to be done more with it.

    Just because you think your right,doesnt mean your opinion is the only right answer.Im still waiting to hear what is wrong in having different opinion about some things not agreeing with them?

    Its not to expect that people have same preference and agreement over everything.

    Not really,they just argued less compared to Kanto days.Which is understandable because both Ash and Misty started to mature becoming more tolerant toward their differences.Loud arguing in Johto changed more in mocking and playful teasing with Ash usually answering back to provocations being enjoyable because you had two way interacting.However that not to say they never argued in Johto as well because there still existed tension and competitive fire between two which can be noticed in several episodes("Like when battling for Totodile,in episode about Zapdos,when entering Whirl Cup,in Fortune Hunters etc).

    Depends for who,because Misty was still fun character to me.Temper was used in smaller amount,but that was hardly only aspect of Misty which made her interesting.There is also her cynical,passionate,humorous and girly side having various quirks to her which allowed for compelling character.

    Togepi didnt leched anything contrary to some belief,and im surprised that some people still dont know what is character development.Misty was equally interesting character both before and after getting togepi,with lack of screen time being main problem which supressed character.
    Most fans enjoyed in character in Hoenn and original series with big demand for return and fact that her cameos were among highest rated speaking for itself.

    Speaking of her goal writers started to establish it better with Whirl Cup,but not much could you have expect when main writer didnt cared.

    Not really because Misty started to mature slowly already by end of Kanto and in OI.
    During start and middle of Johto when Takeshi did series construction Misty fall in background(though Brock fell even more),and it did seemed like they didnt cared.
    However other members of writing staff clearly proved how they cared more for Misty character than mr.Shudo did which can be evidenced by increase of focus in Master Quest doing something about her story(goal) being followed with focus in chronicles and cameos in AG with people finding character enjoyable again.

    I dont think it sucked.Misty was still fiery after maturity,but she was also enriched with some new aspects with her other interesting persona traits being explored more.Development provided Misty with more substance (as i explained above).Character development is never a bad thing because it gives more depth to someone enriching his personality making someone more deep and realistic adding to his appeal.Misty as we get to see in hosos and Hoenn was still quirky,flamboyant and vivid character which got some solid development growing in more mature and level headed character over time.
    Just like Ash matured in Hoenn or May at end of BF.

    She had personality in Johto as well still being fun when given focus,but often being in second plan didnt allowed her to interact or display personality properly,with same thing happening with Brock and even Ash.Too many fillers which didnt advanced plot didnt allowed said characters to flourish and develop properly.

    Also im not sure what do you mean by rescued because Misty was already saved as character with writers starting to get her back on right track by time Johto came to end,but given how decision to remove her has already been set there was no going back.?As mr,.Shudo stated they were opting between replacing TR or Misty at that time in end replacing Misty because ex head writer was in favor of their stay.Writers could have fix mistakes thy did with Misty character keeping her in show having potential,prominent personality and popularity being possible to increase her involvement within anime increasing role but since mr,Shudo never cared much for said character advocating for leaving it happened what happened.

    Except Misty was fun character in Johto and AG as well.

    Logical fallacy.Problem is that Brock his goal of breeder was very passive and you cant do much with something which isnt about battling and entering competitions.Initial issues with breeding aspect is that you cant measure much progress of someone whose carer is about taking care of pokemon and raising them to be in good shape.With Misty she always received more than Brock did(even in era where writers were inexperienced the most).With her goal it was showed how it involves battling,training,exploring as well entering tournaments being more active than Brock was warranting more screen time and exposure.
    Misty cant be compared with Brock because we all know there is huge difference between their careers and personally.Using Brock as indicator to determine how would other characters be treated dosnt hold any water.Otherwise Cilan who is intended to be his replacement wouldnt receive as much focus like its case in BW.Sam gos for Iris.

    If Misty stayed she would probably be treated same like its case with Iris or Cilan with her goal being better defined,more focus and emphasize being out on development of her pokemon along with possibly receiving some rivals(like current sidekicks did).Since writing improved compared to Johto days,writers realized what they were doing wrong with Misty being required to increase character role to justify further stay if TR was gone instead,and since her goal and story was more active compared to Brock she would more than likely received better treatment in AG compared to Johto days.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2011
  7. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    Wow after reading through this page all I can see are people going against each other on their opinions of Misty.

    It's quite clear that some people obviously liked her throughout her time on the show whilst some only liked her before Johto.

    All I can see is people trying to justify their reasons on why she was a good or bad character but at the end of the day everybody has a different opinion on a specific aspect of a certain character examples on this page being that Misty was 'fun', 'boring' and 'mature'.

    Your all entitled to an opinion, but all I see is everyone disagreeing and trying to prove each other wrong with why Misty was 'good/bad'.
     
  8. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    I could care less about what the haters think about "said character" I only take issue with Takeshi Shudo's opinions and handling of Misty's character overall...Here's some things on her, quoted from his blog:

    This statement right here from him proves how little regard he had for her character...If her existence was so weak, then why wouldn't he try to give her a plot that would strengthen her prescence in the show? He was against the idea of Pokeshipping generally, so he really shouldn't have been trying to justify her prescence on the show through Ash. She really would've benefited from a side quest that isn't directly tied to Ash so that she could stand on her own. If her prescence was weak, then they could've just added another boy in the her place. But he said an all male anime would be "tasteless" for male viewers, basically confirming that he thought of Misty as nothing more than a female placeholder.

    But if he didn't want to substitute her, then he would've came up with ideas so that her character wouldn't have to be taken out. Justifying her prescence through Ash is not the way to make her prescence significant, it just didn't work out like that. We can't remember Misty for having a memorable quest to be a Water Pokemon Master...Vast majority of people remember her for her personality, the unique charm that she brought to the show as a girl.

    That's pretty self explanatory. Not a very positive comment coming from someone who wrote for this character. If she didn't have enough "charm" as a girl, again they could've done many things differently to spice up her role, without making it completely dependent on Ash.

    Oh, and I see that you misquoted this in the initial post Cyber...Did you do that on purpose, or was that a typo??
     
  9. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    What is so hard to understand what Shudo means? When he means least justified, this is what he meant:

    Ash = Main protagonist
    Team Rocket = Main villains
    Brock = Guy who explains battles, cooks, acts as voice of reason
    Misty = Essentially just the female character of the group


    Once Ash improved as a trainer and stopped being a rookie, Misty stopped arguing with him mostly and her role in the series diminished. They gave her some episodes about water pokemon here and there so it looked like she was doing something, but all in all it was never too important.
     
  10. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    Yet her role was to act like Ash coach and mentor,she provided moral support and encouragement to group pushing them forward.She balanced out Ash impulsive side and Brock obsession with her charming and unique personality giving identity and recognition in main cast.
    She also battled,contributed to character dynamic and interactions and contributed toward resolution of episode plots far more often than Brock did feeling to have stronger presence within show.Even in Johto she still did more having worthwhile interactions with sveral characters and memorable moments .She also played classical role of heroine on many occasions playing importance in several episodes out there.

    Imo Misty didnt seemed like someone who had lowest justification feeling more important back than.

    And i completely agree with Champion Jared.She had great personality and unique traits during all 5 seasons of her run gaining some quality development,but lack of role and screen time being neglected in Johto was main problem which lead toward being written out.Which was solely mr.Shudo fault considering how if he actually cared he could have strengthen Misty purpose in show,do something with goal of water master,expand more on past and define better plots of her story becoming more involved within anime and relevant.She had potential and still has,but thanks to wrongly set priorities and ex had writer indifference favoring TR she was unfairly booted of too early with there being left sore taste in mouth and much more to be desired.

    Which doesnt surprise why people feel she should return after witnessing how other writers cared more with character recapturing their interest more in late Johto,hosos and AG missing her multisided personality,spark and attitude finding her story was left unresolved with many things ending up unanswered wanting to see her developed more.
     
  11. ~Upsidedown 403~

    ~Upsidedown 403~ Well-Known Member

    ^^^But Cyber, you said Misty never did anything in Johto while she was there...You also said that any of the episodes that were focused on her and I quote were "a few water related fillers"

    So, even in the episodes where she received development and focus, you'd still consider those "filler" episodes because they weren't about Ash, a gym battle, or capturing a pokemon? I guess you can say the same rule applies for episodes centered around Brock, am I right?
     
  12. HatersGonnaHate

    HatersGonnaHate Throwing Shade

    Most of the Misty hate comes from the fact that she was so popular with fans, and whether or not you feel she had a purpose on the show, the fans loved her and still want her back to this day.

    It's clear Shudo didn't think much of Misty, he had nothing positive to say about her character at all and pretty much ripped her apart in this blog.

    Shudo was not the only writer on the show, and he did not single handedly create every episode of the franchise if that's what you're thinking. So I'm sure the other writers cared more about Misty because Shudo obviously didn't.
     
  13. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    True, but I remember back when I first ever watched her departure episode my childhood get ripped in half.

    Back then when I only ever watched the show for entertainment (I still do now but no denying after being on this forum analysing nearly everything) I was so disappointed she left and thought it would ruin the show.

    Ever since AG and watching how May's role worked so well, I've never really wanted Misty back, I liked the fact we got references every so often of her (Misty Return in AG and BF, Misty Lure DP) just to signify that she's still around and not completely inexistant.
     
  14. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    She had the episodes the writers gave her during Johto but they were still few and far inbetween. Even eps that DID focus on her, they were shared with Ash, (like the Totodile ep focuses on them evenly, or even the Whirl Cup).

    I don't consider them filler episodes, depending if they have some character development in them. For example I don't consider, "Hook line and Stinker," a filler because it provides some nice growth for Poliwhirl.

    Those people you see clamoring are the same people who only like the original 151 or 251 pokemon. They stopped watching the show somewhere in their childhood and never kept up with it, saw the series was different than before and never bothered to get back into it.

    This is why when you go on pokemon forums with active fans who follow the anime, like here or Bulbagarden, you see plenty of people who don't seem to care for Misty.

    I never understood where people got the idea that Misty is any more popular than the 10 other main characters the show has had. Almost every character has the same amount of fans, aside from Tracey and Max I suppose.

    Shudo was the head writer, he was the most important writer for the original series. I doubt the other writers at the time really saw much differently. As you can see after he left in late Johto, Misty only ever got a few appearances in AG and then stopped appearing entirely. I see nothing about any of the writers showing an interest in Misty over the last 9 years she's been gone. They gave her a few follow-up eps and then they were done and moved on.
     
  15. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    Im not one for debating over Misty and stuff, but it's not like the writers have treated her as non-existant, we've had references from time to time.

    As already explained she had a few follow up episodes:

    AG - 44, 45, 132 and 134, if you want to count The Mastermind of Mirage Pokemon Special too (it was terrible).

    And im actually pleased we had a few more references (I swear we've spoke about this before)

    DP - 34 showed the Misty Lure, and in SS25 a photo on the side.

    So be it they were minor, but it doesn't get rid of the fact that with things like these it still shows to a very very very small extent that the writers are willing to keep her presence.
     
  16. HatersGonnaHate

    HatersGonnaHate Throwing Shade

    Cyber theres more than one-head writer. Shudo was one of them, but their were other head-writers as well. If all of them felt the same way about Misty, she wouldn't have lasted as long as she did. Shudo did not make every episode by himself, it was a team effort from all the head writers, and they were willing to give Misty her moments, even if Shudo didn't agree.

    As for her not appearing, well it's more of a moving on thing than them not caring about her anymore. The same way they moved on from May, and the same way they moved on from Dawn.
     
  17. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    Just like many of May or Dawn focus based episodes were shared with Ash as well.Point is?

    Ash is main star always being determined to get the most.

    Not at all being rather gross exaggeration to make.Many fans who continued watching show past original series still want Misty back finding she wasnt given justice as character with pokemon tending to have more humor and identity with her around.

    Out of all replaced characters Misty departure caused biggest backlash which resulted in several people quitting with show with thousands of fans out there even to this day demanding her return.This can be noticed on several sites like pokecommunity,pokelite 2000,youtube,facebook,my space etc,etc.

    There is a reason why so many people want first female lead back on show, leaving bigger impact on anime than writers expected and showing how many out there dont agree with their reasoning viewing Misty departure as mistake.

    Fact that mr.Shudo himself stated how if he could he would replace Misty before Johto even began implies how not all members of writing staff shared same view as he did.Further more after Shudo stopped doing series construction it can be noticed increase of Misty focus in Master Quest,catching new pokemon,getting her own arc like Whirl Cup with something being done about goal,screen time getting increased with Misty having several memorable interactions with characters like Dorian,Sakura,Egan etc starting to feel getting back on right track.This was followed up with 4 episodes in chronicles and 4 cameos receiving several references.

    Other members of writing staff showed more care for Misty than mr.Shudo did making it seem like they tried to redeem for some of ex head writer mistakes.Reason why we didnt see some further notable progress of Misty story being made is unfortunately because of plots not being developed enough to allow for such thing with there not being left enough time to do more.Since it was already decided that Misty leaves cast and stop being major character they couldnt do much not having time to do character justice and flesh her out more.Later on she wasnt major character anymore to warrant more exposure.

    Which resulted in Misty never receiving closure to story and goal with several plots being left unresolved.
     
  18. randomspot555

    randomspot555 Well-Known Member

    And how do you tell these "thousands of fans" that left due to one character leaving the series, compared to the people who left because they went from 6 years old when it started to 12 when it ended, a huge age difference in majority and all types of jazz.

    And really, ratings only went down internationally. In Japan, the anime 10+ years later still regularly finishes in the top 10 or 20 naimes in the country. It is a vocal Internet minority that are "Boycotting" due to Misty.

    and honestly if you stop watching a show due to 1/3rd of a lesser main cast member no longer appearing, then how much of a fan of the actual, overall show were you anyway?
     
  19. Nekaku

    Nekaku Well-Known Member

    Why am I not shocked this somehow turned into another Misty debate?
     
  20. ~Upsidedown 403~

    ~Upsidedown 403~ Well-Known Member

    If this were about May or Dawn, no one would be complaining like this because they weren't mishandled by the writers like Misty was. And it looks like Iris is...somewhat...getting similar treatment.
     
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