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Takeshi Shudo's blogs [no shipping debates]

Discussion in 'Pokémon Animé Discussion' started by CyberCubed, Oct 21, 2011.

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  1. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Shudo was still the head anime director, and decided the tone of the series and most likely the major events. The other writers write the individual fillers or Gym battles but the anime director dictates all the important parts of the saga and how it'll play out.

    Shudo stepping down sometime in Johto is exactly why Johto turned into endless fillers, because nobody had any clue what the hell to do with the show at the time.

    As for how long Misty lasted, what does that mean exactly? If she left after Orange, she would have only been in the anime for 2 years. You really thought Misty was going to be done away with in 2 years? The only reason she got a slightly higher episode count is Johto was dragged on with fillers, its not like they were going to drop her in the middle of an arc, they waited till the end.

    Likewise, since Marina didn't exist till Crystal version which came out while the show was in the middle of Johto, there was nobody to replace Misty with. What would you expect, Whitney or Jasmine on the main cast instead? They're too old...

    ...the reason why Iris was likely chosen is the same reason. She's around Ash's age and not older like Elesa or Skyla...
  2. And most likely why the female protagonist from the Black and White games wasn't adapted into anime, too, since she appeared older than Ash.

    Though I think behind the scenes insights are always fascinating, I wasn't really that surprised with what I read in Shudo's blogs. Pokemon is a concept that can be taken much further than it has been, and the idea of having the characters grow older and develop is certainly one that appeals to me. I wonder that if the anime was intended to last longer than one and a half years from the very beginning, would they have aged the characters and focus more on their growth than they did?

    In saying that, as a young kid I probably wouldn't even notice or care that the characters looked older, or acted slightly differently. I watched the show more for the battling, and didn't even bat an eyelid when Misty left the cast; I was more concerned with if there was going to be a new series or not.
  3. HatersGonnaHate

    HatersGonnaHate Throwing Shade

    Tracy says hi! He was not part of the games but yet his character was introduced to replace Brock. They could've done the same with Misty and replaced her with ease. The point is that Misty had supporters on the writing team. Not all of them viewed Misty the same way Shudo did.

    Shudo was probably oblivious to Misty's character altogether and doesn't even know what she did half the time. Like you said, he only focused on major events and what Ash was doing most of the time.

    Just like all of us have our opinions on the characters, the writing team had their opinions on the characters as well. Shudo was not a Misty supporter, though others were and that's why she lasted as long as she did.

    Misty leaving was probably more to do with wanting to introduce contests and to move on, but that doesn't mean they felt her character was useless. But that's definitely how Shudo saw it.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  4. Demonsead

    Demonsead Hoenn Challenger

    Only Misty fans so far feel she was mishandled.
  5. ~Upsidedown 403~

    ~Upsidedown 403~ Well-Known Member

    Only Misty fans? I disagree...Even people who don't like her would agree that she was mishandled...Why else would people constantly make the complaint saying "Misty never did anything..." while she was on the show?

    I'm not trying to spark a flamewar or heated debate with what I'm about to say but, would you consider Misty to be a mishandled character? And before you answer that question, compare Misty's role on the show to that of May, Dawn, and Iris. Don't forget to take them into consideration!
  6. deathseer

    deathseer Oh, u mad bro?

    For a goal to be mishandled it had to have promise in the first place. Considering her goal, I feel that a mono type Trainer really had nowhere to go in the first place.

    She didn't want to be a Champion, a member of the Elite 4, or anything like that. She essentially just wanted to be a person who trains water types. No sort of title or position, just "I just want to be the World's Best Water Pokemon Trainer". Again. . .Adventure, ho?

    Dumping her off at Cerulean Gym seems like the only thing that made sense. If she had an intended endgame that had actual promise, then I would say she was mishandled.
  7. Demonsead

    Demonsead Hoenn Challenger

    Fair enough. I don't like her personality, but I would consider her goal to be one of the most mishandled things about her. May started out becoming a Pokemon Trainer as an excuse to travel the world, but eventually decided she wanted to be a Pokemon Coordinator. Dawn wanted to become as great a Coordinator as her mother, so she had a goal from the start. Iris needs to evolve her Axew in a Haxorus in order to become a Dragon Master. Misty wants to be a Water Pokemon Master, but there was never any given definition about what that was or how to become one, despite the several Water Pokemon contests she entered. If, for example, it was stated that winning the Whirl Island Cup, becoming a Sea Hero in the process, and then going on to find your own Great Sea Spirit Sapphire so you could communicate with Water-type Pokemon was what you needed to do in order to become a Water Pokemon Master, that would have given Misty a set of steps she needed to work towards reaching her goal.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  8. ~Upsidedown 403~

    ~Upsidedown 403~ Well-Known Member

    I'm not exactly understanding what you're saying..."If she had an intended endgame that had actual promise, then I would say she was mishandled" what do you mean by that??

    And I can't really say that a trainer who specializes in one type wouldn't go much of anywhere...Misty's goal was to become a Water Pokemon Master. One of the best water trainers, if not THE best water pokemon trainer in the world. Good, there's potential with that goal, and you've got something to work with, I see promise. Thing is, the writers fell flat giving a proper definition of what a Water Pokemon Master is, or how she'd be able to reach that level. An unclear path leading to an uncertain plateau marks a mishandled situation on Misty's behalf IMO.

    The anime has given us some good examples of great expert water pokemon trainers like Prima (although Ice is really her niche) and Wallace. Both incredibly skilled, but the anime never hinted that Misty would have to reach their status to become a Water Pokemon Master. Misty wasn't around when we saw Wallace, and when Misty asked Prima about water pokemon or how to improve her battling skills, she was paid dust.

    So what else does that leave us with? The winner of the Whirl Cup Competition is given the title "Water Pokemon Alpha Omega", a real standout among water trainers...So perhaps that's the level she'd have to reach, but we'll never know...I DO know for a fact that she won't get any closer to that goal if she's left to rot in her gym...These unexplored and unexplained plot holes and unused potential with Misty spells nothing but horrible writing and terrible mishandling of her character without a doubt.
  9. deathseer

    deathseer Oh, u mad bro?

    I mean, you can't mishandle something that really didn't have a handle in the first place. Her goal is way too vague and and it didn't help that the writers really didn't have a plan for it either. All she simply wanted to be is just a Great Water Pokemon Trainer, simple as that. Not much spark or bite to that.

    It's just a goal that really didn't seem to have much to go on other than catching and training water types. I honestly don't see the appeal in being able to Train only one type of Pokemon other than being part of the Elite 4. But that's not what her aim was. Misty never once aiming to be a Water type Trainer of the Elite 4. At least that would have some sense to it.
  10. ShinyCharyZard

    ShinyCharyZard Honesty=Infractions

    Iris is just Misty in disguise. Their characters are extremely similar, with similar personalities and a similar goal. The only difference, other than looks of course, is that Iris is actually doing something unlike Misty who was just.. there.
  11. Champion Jared 14

    Champion Jared 14 Well-Known Member

    If she wasn't mishandled, then how come people accuse her of being a "faux action girl"?? People always complain that she didn't do anything, or that she didn't have a subplot side quest to go along with Ash's...So are you saying she was handled just as good as the other female leads?
  12. ~Upsidedown 403~

    ~Upsidedown 403~ Well-Known Member

    Iris and Misty are SIMILAR. They are not identical. Different personalities, different backgrounds, different build up and teams...As far as their goals, Iris is actually being given some somewhat decent development...And your statement concerning Misty is further proof of her being mishandled by the writers...I don't know how much clearer it can get...
  13. deathseer

    deathseer Oh, u mad bro?

    As a character, she did pretty well, but that's when I was 10. For right now, I can't stand her.

    As for her goal, not so much.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2011
  14. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    I think its fairly obvious judging by demand on various petitions,pokemon sites etc how notable demand for Misty return there is with thousands of people judging by their complaints and claims being willing to go back to anime in case Misty ever returns.Even out of those who continued watching anime good portion would welcome reuse of older characters like her becoming tired of constant character cycling.

    Im not speaking about whole fandom obviously,but from what i noticed during past 9 years number of people advocating for character return is not small at all.

    Reason why many people want her back is from what i noticed because they miss her being to them great and fun character missing humor and way she interacted with others having specific and unique dynamic which was provided to main group.Not saying other girls didnt though,but they simply prefer chemistry which Misty character created more.
    They are also displeased with fact of her character never receiving closure with many things being left unfinished in story having lot of unused potential to get developed more wanting that Misty character gets some justice along with being disappointed with way first girl and part of original trio is being treated now days.

    Its not so much about those people not being fans of show from what i noticed,but more fact of becoming disappointed with how are some characters treated in anime deciding to stop watching anim in protest when Misty left finding it started to lose its purpose and identity to them.

    I assume your joking,because it was generally agreed upon fandom how Misty was never fleshed out enough with several things ending up poorly treated and unexplored with story never getting closure.

    It definitely had promise.We can see through examples like Lorelai or Wallace how it is perfectly possible to achieve this dream with Misty goal being established to become best water trainer in world,which is basically becoming one of E4 since they are best one type trainers.That and with Whirl Cup it was showed how there exist some tasks someone needs to enter to achieve this expanding on whole term.

    It was established in pokemon anime how there exist different meanings for one type masters.Water pokemon master was explained to be strongest water pokemon trainer in world with prestigious title being given to those who proven themselves worldwide among other water trainers with water type events serving as way to measure someone growth and prove his skill to others.

    As i and several other people said there were several directions through which Misty goal could have been taken.For start her pokemon team could be developed more(like Psyduck with Misty learning how to teach him battle and swim,Golden,Starmie learning to utilize variety of its techniques etc).She could have been given rivals which would add clash to story bringing tension.They could have expand on whole thing more than just staying on Whirl Cup introducing water competitions through which Misty could do steps forward(like coordinators do with contests)coming closer toward title of water master.
    Competitions which utilize water pokemon to full potential,events which take place outside of water(like on ground,grass or any other field) or underwater to show trainer and their pokemon capability to adapt to different environment etc are various ways which could have been used as structure of required tasks for Misty to advance dream and show how quickly she can adapt and learn.

    They could have Misty try training to become E4 member in future,showing her being developed by entering possible tasks and battling evaluators to determine if she has required potential.

    Water master goal had prospect and freshness to it due to being barely touched upon which could have serve as alternate way of battling giving us break from only watching gyms,but since ex had writer mr.Shudo never intended to do much with Misty story or develop her goal and dreams for that matter its not surprising why whole concept wasnt exploited much at all.

    You should check what her game version says in Gold and Silver.When you beat her she states how she plans to leave gym and travel one day to meet stronger trainers and improve herself.Meaning how even in game canon it was implied how she plans to become something higher than gym leader.

    But it did,rewatch Whirl Cup.Whole point of that competition was to touch on concept of water master defining it little more.In "Around the Whirlpool"when Misty stated how she wants to become water pokemon master prof.Elm later explained how winner of Whirl tournament gets title "Alpha Omega of water types"with water master used to be called by that name in past.Later on during Whirl competition sea priest Maya explained how sea heroes in past managed to understand hearts of water pokemon communicating with them.

    Whirl Cup showed how there exist tasks in form of water based competitions someone needs to enter in order to become water master drawing direct connection with Misty goal.
    Interesting thing is that writers didnt started to define whole thing more until mr.Shudo left position of head writer considering how during his time he never intended to do anything with it in first place.Granted others put some effort but it was too little happening too late with Misty already leaving.

    Goal of water master had potential and material to do something out of it being unique to have trainer in main cast who used mostly one type striving to become best with them(which is challenging and hard task to accomplish),but due to lack of Takeshi Shudo care concept was never given chance to flourish and be developed.

    Yet other writers actually expanded on whole thing after mr,Shudo stopped doing series construction doing something about it it.Reason why until Master Quest there was never done much with Misty story or goal was because of ex head writer not caring never intending to do anything with Misty story.It wasnt until he left when other members of writing staff tried to redeem at least partially for his mistakes.Which equates caring more.

    Not really,it also showed to involve entering prestige water tournaments serving as benchmarks through which someone can advance whole thing(referring to Whirl Cup).

    Also as a matter of fact Misty goal was to become best water trainer in world(aka water master)showing interest in Lorelei in Orange Islands.She was fascinated with her skills and knowledge when using water and ice types fangirling and stating how she is her idol.Considering how best one type trainers out there are in fact E4 members with several being labeled as masters(like Lance being called legendary dragon master or Lorelei ice master)its not hard to see connection between Misty dream and E4 position(especially when taking in account fact how Lorelei is her idol).
  15. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Or as said, the concept of replacing female characters hadn't occured to the writers when Johto started back in 2000 in Japan. Remember Johto went on for 3 years, obviously by mid-Johto it was when the writers were realizing Misty was losing her purpose on the show.

    I doubt the writers favor characters themselves. By that logic you would say they all loved Brock given how he lasted for 13 years, yet he was given such shoddy treatment and tossed into the background that it didn't matter.
  16. pokemon fan 132

    pokemon fan 132 Well-Known Member

    Only flaw with that theory is fact that mr.Shudo wanted to replace Misty long before Johto but didnt had much choice but to keep hr.Showing how not all members of writing staff shared same view about Misty character as he did.Proof to this can be best noticed in increase of character focus with something being done about water master goal in Johto after Shudo left being followed with hosos and cameos.Other writers werent obligated to give any of this to Misty but they still put effort showing to care more than ex head writer did wanting to fix at least some of his mistakes.
    Unfortunately they couldnt do much to provide closure and develop character enough due to not having time being obligated to execute decision which was brought before replacing her.

    If Takeshi Shudo cared about Misty character he could have easily solved problem by increasing her role strengthening purpose in anime with more focus being put on development of story,but as he stated that wasnt his intention not viewing character as "charming enough" to stay.
    Since he was head writer and director agreed with his decision,its not like other members of writing staff could have done much about it even if they didnt agreed with some of mr.Shudo views.

    Takeshi Shudo blogs prove otherwise.He clearly expressed to hold preference toward Jessie,James and Meowth advocating for their stay when they were put in consideration of getting replaced instead of Misty in Johto.
  17. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    Shudo favored TR, but it didn't seem like he favored the main
    cast over one another.

    Brock had just come back for Johto. It was obvious that Misty was the choice to leave at the time.
  18. matt0044

    matt0044 Well-Known Member

    That really bugs me. I know it's all opinion but Pokemon is more than just the Anime and the Anime itself is more than just Misty. Much more. But I guess I'm saying this because I started watching the Anime properly with Advanced Generation AFTER Misty left.
  19. HatersGonnaHate

    HatersGonnaHate Throwing Shade

    Misty did a lot more in Johto than she ever did in Kanto. If they thought so little of Misty, they wouldn't have given her so many moments in Johto. They would've kept her in the background and dumped her in the end.

    Favoring characters is clearly there for the writers. Why else would certain characters have more focused episodes than others, and get more captures?

    Brock staying so long might have been more to do with him being a necessity for Ash and taking care of him with things such as a food and clothing. There was no need for a new character in that department.

    Letting go of Misty at the end of Johto probably had more to do with them wanting to introduce contests, and Misty had already established her goal wanting to be the best water pokemon trainer. For them, it made sense to introduce a new girl, but doesn't mean they hated Misty and wanted her gone just like Shudo did.

    If May was exactly the girl they were looking for, then why was her run shorter than Misty's? You'd think the girl they've always wanted would last a lot longer than the one they didn't like don't ya think?

    It's pretty clear they just have to move on from certain characters, like they did with May, and like they did with Dawn. But that doesn't mean the whole writing team hated them. Shudo was just not a misty supporter, but does that mean Misty has no supporters at all on the writing team? of course not.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2011
  20. CyberCubed

    CyberCubed Banned

    They gave her episodes here and there, why wouldn't they? They had to do something with her from time to time. We had enough episodes of Misty just standing there with Togepi in her arms to begin with.

    Or rather Shudo was the head writer who made the decision, the other writers either agreed with him or just thought a new female protagonist would be just as good. The writers are not the same type of fanboys that you see on these forums. They're adult men working on a children's cartoon.

    Well that's exactly what happened, didn't it? Virtually everything Shudo said about the way Misty was handled is what led to the creation of anime!May. After that they probably just decided to bring in a new girl for each generation, and May paved the way for Dawn, Iris, etc.

    True, but again, the writers aren't fanboys. They probably don't care either way.
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