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Talonflame Discussion Thread

Discussion in '6th Gen' started by McDanger, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Hmm, no, I didn't even know that. I'll redo them later with the 1.3x power, but that still shows the ridiculous power of this thing.
     
  2. Is there solid evidence of the Flying Gem yet? If not, all of those calcs are moot (even not counting the fact that gems were nerfed). The next best bet is Sharp Beak Brave Bird (I guess there's Life Orb, but you have to ask if that extra recoil is worth ~8% more power), so here's that list with that instead of Flying Gem Acrobatics:

    +2 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Charizard Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 255-300 (64.72 - 76.14%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Charizard Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 499-588 (70.88 - 83.52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Charizard Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Donphan: 238-282 (61.97 - 73.43%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (I'm kinda wondering why Donphan is still relevant)

    +2 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Charizard Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 261-307 (74.14 - 87.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Charizard Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 241-285 (57.38 - 67.85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 252+ Atk Sharp Beak Charizard Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 232-274 (65.9 - 77.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    It's still a lot of damage, but you're missing out on a lot of potential KOs after hazards that you would have had otherwise. The fact that the Flying Gem (if it's ever discovered) might follow in the footsteps of the Normal Gem and only provide a 1.3x boost doesn't help much either.
     
  3. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    It's not really, I just calc'd it against every physical wall I could think of in 5 seconds.
     
  4. LizardonX

    LizardonX Banned

    Talonflame is pretty amazing. Priority brave bird means blaziken will never be an issue.
     
  5. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    The same could be said for most fighting types, in addition to Volcarona, who Talonflame can easily check even after a Quiver Dance.
     
  6. Minedreigon

    Minedreigon A monument to all your sins

    Hello best acrobatics spammer (probably). It gets priority flying moves. That's pretty darn good. Not much stops it after SD. It's (I think) the 3rd most commonly used pokemon in gen6OU. Maybe that's just hype, but I gotta admit it's great.

    I think physically defensive Rotom W is a solid counter
     
  7. Eaglehawk

    Eaglehawk Banned

    I still think Hawlucha will be the best AcroSpammer lol.

    I just want to cause some contrversy here and say that Talonflame is OU material.
     
  8. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    I don't think that's so controversial. It's got some flaws in its underwhelming stats (barring speed), a nasty stealth rock weakness, and some things that hard counter it (Rotom-W, Normal/Mega Tyranitar, Heatran), but priority Brave Bird, Roost, and Acrobatics are unprecedented. It's not unreasonable to think it could make it in OU, and if it's not, it'll be BL for sure.
     
  9. I don't think anyone here will disagree with ya there.
     
  10. Eaglehawk

    Eaglehawk Banned

    Man everyone was having a screamfest over whether Talonflame is OU material or BL material like Staraptor.

    Didn't realize there would be a general consensus here.
     
  11. Amagidyne

    Amagidyne Sunny Dreams

    Talony is more hit and run yah know? It has a myriad of checks and counters, so if you want to use it for sweeping,go late game. :/ I don't think Talonflame is strong enough imo, his usage will, as always depend on the other meta. Is he OU? Possibly. He is more effective at his niche than Staraptor. But... remember dem stealth rocks.
     
  12. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Defog Buff though. Also means Ghost types aren't the be-all, end-all means of keeping Stealth Rocks on the field. Stealth Rock is a major thorn in its side but it's not an insurmountable one.
     
  13. Amagidyne

    Amagidyne Sunny Dreams

    Haha, at least Gen 5 comes with the means to remove Stealth Rocks. Though honestly, it feels more like a patch-up then a reconciliation.
     
  14. ghost_dog97

    ghost_dog97 the sweeper

    hello? pair up with a rapid spin starmie?
     
  15. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Using that logic Articuno and Charizard (the sucky old Charizard) should be at least UU.
     
  16. ghost_dog97

    ghost_dog97 the sweeper

    lmao, rapid spin is the only move to get rid of entry hazards though
     
  17. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Calc'd Life Orb Brave Bird suicide Talonflame, some interesting results here.

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 192-226 (79.33 - 93.38%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    (192, 195, 196, 199, 201, 203, 207, 208, 211, 213, 214, 217, 220, 222, 224, 226) <--- Scarf set

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 232 Def Rotom-W: 156-183 (51.48 - 60.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    (156, 157, 160, 161, 164, 165, 166, 168, 170, 172, 174, 175, 178, 179, 182, 183) <--- Bulky Rotom

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 263-309 (62.61 - 73.57%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    (263, 265, 269, 270, 274, 278, 281, 285, 286, 290, 294, 296, 300, 302, 305, 309)

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 194-229 (60.06 - 70.89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    (194, 196, 199, 200, 203, 205, 207, 211, 212, 214, 217, 218, 221, 224, 226, 229)

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 253-298 (71.87 - 84.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    (253, 255, 259, 261, 265, 266, 270, 273, 277, 278, 282, 285, 289, 290, 294, 298)

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 539-637 (76.56 - 90.48%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    (539, 547, 554, 559, 567, 573, 578, 585, 593, 598, 604, 610, 617, 624, 629, 637)

    +2 252+ Atk Life Orb (custom) Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 274-325 (69.54 - 82.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    (274, 278, 282, 285, 289, 292, 294, 298, 302, 304, 308, 312, 313, 317, 321, 325)

    There just aren't any safe switch-ins to this thing. Pair it with a bulky Water type like Jello and some Screen/hazard support from the likes of Azelf or Klefki, and you've got a monster on your hands.

    EDIT: Carbink's calc was incorrect, used the wrong typing in the calculator. I think Carbink might be one of the few things that can switch into a +2 Talonflame, but there's not a hell of a lot he can do in return.
     
  18. Dark Revenger

    Dark Revenger New Member

    Speaking of counters... I really found Golem to be the perfect one, and it fits in my team just right. While this generation he lost Sucker Punch and Fire Punch, he is still more than an anoyance to many teams.

    Golem w/ Custap Berry
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Hammer Arm
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge

    Sturdy is always a great ability, and a Custap Berry is the surprise which usually makes your opponent rage. The attack boost of Gen 6 is much welcomed (110->120).

    Talonflame really can't scratch Golem, meaning that if you switch in you get free rocks or a powerful physical move in the face of someone.

    Anyway, any rock Pokemon can resist Talonflame. Golem is one of the few who can really retailiate and be useful for the team.
     
  19. Ummm.... if you want a TFlame counter just use Tyranitar. It also gets Stealth Rock, sets up irritating sandstorms, and doesn't die to a Bubble. If you're using Custap Berry (which I am 99% sure is not released yet) then you have to use it as a lead, or else these things called hazards and status destroy its Sturdy and make it die even faster to an Absorb. When you have to lead with it to be effective and you use it as an anti-meta Pokemon.... can't the opponent just lead with something that beats Golem, forcing it to switch out and become effectively useless if they can keep Rocks up?

    On topic, Talonflame is very potent currently. It wasn't as metagame-defining as Exca was during early BW, but it comes close. Every team needs a Talonflame counter on it so that it doesn't come late-game and Brave Bird everything. With the strongest priority outside of Ubers and the second strongest in Ubers, this regional bird is not to be taken lightly.
     
  20. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Golem's kind of a liability on the rest of the team though, due to low speed, low special defense, and poor defensive typing. Tyranitar would be a better Rock type if you're looking at usefulness to the team, despite lacking Sturdy and having lower defense (though higher HP).

    Edit: Ninja'd.
     

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