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Team Building Help Thread

QuestionClaw

Prince of Doom
You've been very helpful so far, Gothorita. Thank you.

I already posted a request for a Scizor in the Eggmove requests thread. I'll also post the request in the thread you provided.
I have Braviary as a BP receiver, Scizor as a BPasser, and I can't decide between a hitmontop and a Claydol as a defensive Spinner.
 

White_Roar~

Mother Monster
You've been very helpful so far, Gothorita. Thank you.

I already posted a request for a Scizor in the Eggmove requests thread. I'll also post the request in the thread you provided.
I have Braviary as a BP receiver, Scizor as a BPasser, and I can't decide between a hitmontop and a Claydol as a defensive Spinner.

You're Welcome! :D I used to think Competitive Battling, Tiers, The Metagame, EV Training, IVs, Team Building etc. was way too much to learn but over time, I learned and now I like to teach people that are like how I was. I'm a Competitve Pokemon Mentor.

Anyway, I'll show you a set for both Pokemon and we'll see which one you like.

Now, before I get a set together, will this Hitmontop or Claydol be Specially Defensive or Physically Defensive? (I think you mean Physically Defensive by "defensive" but I just want to be sure.)

I can make a set for both Defenses if you'd like as well...
 

azeem40

Pokemon is fun!
Claydol has more defensive stats while Hitmontop can be defensive and offensive with the same set.
 

Embodiment

New Member
Hello.
I am a huge noob at Pokemon.
I was wondering... What Poke's would complete this team?

;257;
Adamant
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6? HP.
Moves;
Blaze Kick (STAB),
Aerial Ace (Coverage),
Sky Upper Cut (STAB),
????

;398;
Jolly
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6? HP.
Moves;
Close Combat (Coverage),
Brave Bird (STAB(Maybe different move; as it hurts Star too))
Roost (Gets HP back after Brave Bird)
U-Turn (Too get out).

:530:
Jolly
252 Attack, 252 Speed, 6? HP (Not too sure with Exadrill).
Moves;
Earthquake (STAB),
Swords Dance (Power Up),
Rock Slide (Coverage),
????

;131;
Modest
252 HP, 252 Special Attack, 6 Speed?
Moves;
Ice Beam (STAB),
T-Bolt (Coverage),
????
????

Then a Wall, but I don't know many.
And I just got a Eevee with Anticipation. Any clue which Eevee evolution would work in this team?

Thanks for reading!

*Open to all suggestions. Thanks again!
 
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Embodiment

New Member
Oh wow didn't know that.

How about Infernape?
Adamant
252 Attack, 252 Speed.
Moves;
Close Combat (STAB),
Mach Punch (STAB and get-in first),
Fire Punch (STAB),
Grass Knot/Other Coverage Move.

And what's a good pokemon to replace Exadrill?

Thanks.
 

xAnbu

Member
I used to play a little competitive pokemon but mainly in early diamond/pearl none in Black/White but I was building a team (why so long!? IDK!!!) but I love Zoroark and I even more so Love my Vaporeon so I am currently in the process of Obtaining a Drizzle toad. but Would Choice Spec Drizzle Toad conflict with my Life Orb Zoroark? bringing it up cause I run Flamethrower on him rather than substitute.

I also need a few suggestions since currently I would LIKE to run:
Hydration Wall Leftovers Vaporeon
248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
rest
scald
roar
(Ice Beam/Toxic not sure yet)

Choice Spec Politoad
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam/
Focus Blast
Surf

Nasty Plot Life Orb Zoroark
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nasty Plot
dark pulse
Focus Blast
Flamethrower

Im trying to think of physical sweepers that work WITH zoroarks illusion and the one of the only ones I can think of is Infernape (since he can learn Nasty Plot) and let them think SpA Infernape but real run the physical mach punch and close combat form. but team building has never been my strong suit and I am ready to bash my face into a wall. Some suggestions would be much appreciated and some feedback.
all 4 of these are OU except for Zoroark which is UU but I have such great love for this guy and he is one of my favorite 5th gens (with that wonderful chandelure) I wish I would tell you exactly what I was going for with this team but my complete lack of knowledge makes it difficult to communicate it to you.
 

White_Roar~

Mother Monster
I used to play a little competitive pokemon but mainly in early diamond/pearl none in Black/White but I was building a team (why so long!? IDK!!!) but I love Zoroark and I even more so Love my Vaporeon so I am currently in the process of Obtaining a Drizzle toad. but Would Choice Spec Drizzle Toad conflict with my Life Orb Zoroark? bringing it up cause I run Flamethrower on him rather than substitute.

I also need a few suggestions since currently I would LIKE to run:
Hydration Wall Leftovers Vaporeon
248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe
rest
scald
roar
(Ice Beam/Toxic not sure yet)

Choice Spec Politoad
252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Hydro Pump
Ice Beam/
Focus Blast
Surf

Nasty Plot Life Orb Zoroark
252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nasty Plot
dark pulse
Focus Blast
Flamethrower

Im trying to think of physical sweepers that work WITH zoroarks illusion and the one of the only ones I can think of is Infernape (since he can learn Nasty Plot) and let them think SpA Infernape but real run the physical mach punch and close combat form. but team building has never been my strong suit and I am ready to bash my face into a wall. Some suggestions would be much appreciated and some feedback.
all 4 of these are OU except for Zoroark which is UU but I have such great love for this guy and he is one of my favorite 5th gens (with that wonderful chandelure) I wish I would tell you exactly what I was going for with this team but my complete lack of knowledge makes it difficult to communicate it to you.

Don't worry, we were all new to Competitive Pokemon once, I'm sure you'll get better. :)

Anyway, to answer your question: Yes. Since Zoroark's Flamethrower would be subjected to rain, it's power would decrease greatly by 50%: 95(Normal Flamethrower base power) - 50%(In the Rain) = 47.5

Since you don't exactly know what to do with this team, I've been looking through it and noticed, this could possibly be a Rain Team if you take away Flamethrower from Zoroark of course as it does not have enough Defenses to have time to set up with Nasty Plot and once you use Nasty Plot, you could get hit on that turn and faint... If you'd like to have Nasty Plot then I would suggest to have this set:

Zoroark

Moves:
~ Substitute
~ Nasty Plot
~ Night Daze
~ Focus Blast

EVs: 252 Sp. Atk / 252 Speed / 4 HP

Nature: Modest

Held Item: Life Orb / Quick Claw

Ability: Illusion

You see, this is how this set works:

Begin with Substitute which will allow you to set up with Nasty Plot. Then you can begin sweeping with Dark Pulse/Night Daze or Focus Blast. Just don't get predictable. The EVs help Zoroark becoem a sweeper as well as the Nature. Life Orb will make your attacks strong and possibly One-Hit-KO's. The Quick Claw has a 20% chance of allowing you to go 1st in the Priority bracket which will be very useful at times...

Now onto the Move Descriptions:

Substitute, It is wise to begin with this in battle if you want to set up with Nasty Plot. But you must use it at the right time so your opponent doesn't trick you and destroy your substitute.

Nasty Plot, Since Zoroark is a special sweeper, it is common for one to have Nasty Plot. Nasty Plot increases Special Attack by 2 stages each time used. It is imperative to use this after using Substitute due to Zoroark's low defenses.

Night Daze, This will be a great move for Zoroark and provide good coverage along with STAB damage! It will also do massive damage due to Nasty Plot! Here's the base power math: 85(Normal Night Daze base power) + 50%(STAB) = 127.5

Focus Blast, This will also provide good coverage and massive damage due to Nasty Plot. There is no base power math Focus Blast's base power is 120.

If you use the Life Orb, be warned that after each turn, you will lose 10% of your HP in exchange for 30% boost in power for your moves...

There's one thing I can think of so far that you'd have to watch out for with this Zoroark:

Trick Room Teams - This could mess up your entire strategy with Zoroark and forcing you to go last in the priority bracket.

This is a description of the Priority Bracket in case you're wondering:

Priority refers to the order in which players' commands are followed during a battle. Under normal circumstances, the priority of a move used in a battle is determined by the Speed stat of the Pokémon using the move. However, a move may have a different priority value, which can cause that move to always go before or after ordinary moves. Using items and switching Pokémon will almost always go first before a Pokémon's move.

Each move and certain actions have a hidden priority value in the game data, ranging from +8 to -8. Most moves are ordinary, and have 0 priority. Moves that always go before ordinary priority moves have increased priority and priority values greater than zero. Example: ,oves such as Quick Attack and ExtremeSpeed. Moves that always go after ordinary priority moves have decreased priority and priority values less than zero. Examples of decreased priority moves are Counter and Roar. Moves with effects that last an entire turn, such as Protect or Magic Coat, have much higher priority to ensure that the move is used at the start of the turn.

Moves that have the same priority are said to be in the same priority bracket. When two moves of equal priority, such as when both Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch are used in the same turn, the Pokémon with the higher Speed will move first.

Move priority is not changed by the effects of Trick Room, which only reverses the order of moves within a priority bracket. Increased priority moves still go first, and decreased priority moves still go last.

When a Pokémon uses a move, some held items and Abilities cause it to go last within its priority bracket, ignoring even Trick Room. The items Full Incense and Lagging Tail and the Ability Stall have this effect, but do not change the priority of any moves.


Now onto Vaporeon, here's a set I suggest for it:

Vaporeon

Moves:
~ Scald
~ Wish
~ Toxic
~ Ice Beam / Protect

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp. Def / 4 Sp. Atk

Nature: Calm

Held Item: Leftovers

Ability: Hydration or Water Absorb

Now, this is known as a "Special Wall". Meaning it has very High Special Defense and HP nearly able to survive almost any Special Attack. Vaporeon also supports the team with: Wish, you could withdraw occasionally from Vaporeon to a Pokemon with low or half HP in order to be greatly healed from Wish. (Just don't get predictable with this.) Toxic, will help the team by inflicting a bad status problem on your non-Poison-Type opponent. Which will be of great support at times considering the "Badly Poisoned" ailment worsens each turn and deals more HP. Protect will "stall" your opponent in order for them to waste time and PP. It can also have your opponent "waste time" trying to attack you while they're getting badly hurt by Toxic which can porve to be very useful in close battles. Scald will provide: Coverage against types and STAB damage. It will also be of support if you're battling a Poison-Type Pokemon which cannot be inflicted by Toxic so they'll be burned from Scald which will definitely be useful against Physical attacking Poison-Type Pokemon like Muk. Ice Beam will also provide coverage too. It can also do great super-effective damage as well to Pokemon like Garchomp.

Here's the base power math and moveset description:

Scald, as aforementioned, is provides coverage and STAB damage. I advise you to use this when needed. Here's the base power math: 80(Normal Scald base power) + 50%(STAB) = 120

Wish, Use this when it's needed, also use it unexpectedly like when you think you're about to get hit by a strong move, use WIsh, then Protect on the next turn, and on the end of that turn, you'll be healed. This will also help for your fellow team members if you switch to them before Wish takes effect so they can get healed.

Toxic, this move can be devastating and tormenting due to the huge loss in HP after each turn. Use this on non-Poison and Steel-type Pokemon as it will have no effect on them. When Toxic is in effect, it is sometimes good to stall with Protect in order for your opponent to waste time losing health and trying to hit you.

Protect, This helps guard against unexpected, Special Attacks, and Physical Attacks, as well as help stall with Toxic or a burn caused by Scald.Use this wisely as it loses it's success rate after being used repeatedly.

Ice Beam, This will be similar to Scald although no STAB and provides good coverage against the common Grass, Ground, Flying, and Dragon Type Pokemon. There is no base power math for this, as it does not cause STAB damage or increase anything in the latter. However, it does have a 10% chance of freezing your opponent which is not very often... Ice Beam's base power is 95.

Held Item Description:

Leftovers, this helps with the "Wall" structure of Vaporeon's stats and to keep Vaporeon's HP up and near maxmium. It heals 1/16 of your maximum HP. (rounded down) (It's actually a lot by the way...)

Water Absorb will absorb Water-Type attacks and restore HP. (Very useful in double battles...) Hydration will prevent status ailments from being inflicted on you which can be helpful against stalling Pokemon. Choose whichever ability works for you. They're both great. That's why I suggested both (Lol!)

When using Vaporeon, just watch out for those Pokemon that have extremely High Attack, like Haxorus or Rampardos.

I don't want to start with Politoed as I'd like to hear your thoughts on this so far, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I believe Drizzle Politoed is Banned from certain tournaments...?

I'm indecisive between those two because they have both Def. and Sp. Def

Hmm... I suggest Claydol as it can also provide support as a Spinner... Here's a set I suggest: (I may suggest another one or a few more later...)

Claydol

Moves:
~ Rapid Spin
~ Reflect
~ Light Screen
~ Psyshock / Earth Power

EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp. Def / 4 Def OR 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp. Def

Nature: Calm

Held Item: Light Clay

Ability: Levitate

So, I'll explain the moveset and EVs, and what it does here. as you know, Rapid Spin is to remove the effects of partially trapping moves or entry hazards which can be very useful in Competitive Battling. Reflect and Light Screen will be really helpful due to it doubling the teams' defenses and it will be in effect for 8 turns other then the normal 5 due Light Clay! Psyshock/Earth Power will provide coverage and STAB damage. but just use it wisely... Claydol's EV distribution helps in HP and Sp. Def with a tiny increase in defense, so Claydol is really bulky.... You may want to switch in and out with Claydol at times too. So you can remove those entry hazards and trapping moves, and so you can do some good damage with Psyshock/Earth Power. I would suggest to have Psyshock because it does Physical damage instead of Special damage. Meaning, even though it's a Special Attack, it's damage hits the Defense stat! This is really useful for Psychic-Type Pokemon to have. Though, Earth Power would be good too, because it will allow you to hit non-flying type Dark Pokemon and is super-effective on 5 Common Types. It's really your choice, choose what you think is best and what works for you! :)

Here's the base power math for Psyshock/Earth Power:

Psyshock: 90(Normal Psyshock base power) + 50%(STAB) = 135

Earth Power: 90(Normal Earth Power base power) + 50%(STAB) = 135

Whoo! Another wall of text! This took an hour to type! Lol!

I hope this helped for the both of you! ^_^
 
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azeem40

Pokemon is fun!
Hitmontop can also use Rapid Spin.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Chuc mot ngay moi vui ve hanh phuc
Hay cung nhau dong gop nhung bai viet that hay cho dien dan nay.
Cam on tat ca.

English, please...

Focus Blast, This will also provide good coverage and massive damage due to Nasty Plot. Here's the base power math: 120(Normal Focus Blast base power) + 400%(After using Nasty Plot 3 times) = 600 (If using the Life Orb: 600 + 30%(Life Orb support) = 780)

If you use the Life Orb, be warned that after each turn, you will lose 10% of your HP in exchange for 30% boost in power for your moves...

This is false, Nasty Plot boosts the Special Attack stat, not the base power of his moves. Since Zoroark has a base 120 Sp. Atk, with a positive nature he'd have 372 Sp. Atk. Nasty Plot increases his Attack by 100% (or 372) each use, up to 3 uses. However, nobody would ever let you get 3 Nasty Plot's off. Zoroark isn't that fast without a positive nature (only 309 with a full investment), and has terrible 60/60/60 bulk, meaning even a strong neutral attack will KO him easily before he can even set up a substitute.

If you (for some reason) really want a boost to the base power of his moves, a Life Orb offers a 33% boost to the actual damage dealt by all direct damage moves (barring things like Night Shade, Counter, Metal Burst, etc) at the cost of 1/10 of your maximum HP per attack.
 
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White_Roar~

Mother Monster
English, please...



This is false, Nasty Plot boosts the Special Attack stat, not the base power of his moves. Since Zoroark has a base 120 Sp. Atk, with a positive nature he'd have 372 Sp. Atk. Nasty Plot increases his Attack by 100% (or 372) each use, up to 3 uses. However, nobody would ever let you get 3 Nasty Plot's off. Zoroark isn't that fast without a positive nature (only 309 with a full investment), and has terrible 60/60/60 bulk, meaning even a strong neutral attack will KO him easily before he can even set up a substitute.

If you (for some reason) really want a boost to the base power of his moves, a Life Orb offers a 33% boost to the actual damage dealt by all direct damage moves (barring things like Night Shade, Counter, Metal Burst, etc) at the cost of 1/10 of your maximum HP per attack.

Hmm... yes, what a miscalculation... I shall fix that... Thank You for noticing...
 
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xAnbu

Member
this is being really informative thank you. I thought Drizzle was only banned when used in combination with Swift Swim? Sadly I really love the hydration-rain synergy to give it up for water absorb and my Hydration Vaporeon is a male so I can't chain breed Wish onto it hence why I had roar and toxic/ice beam on there. Roar to prevent any sort of set ups from nasty plot//calm mind users. Is Special Wall better than Defensive wall? I know that the SpD stat is higher than its Def stat naturally.
 

White_Roar~

Mother Monster
this is being really informative thank you. I thought Drizzle was only banned when used in combination with Swift Swim? Sadly I really love the hydration-rain synergy to give it up for water absorb and my Hydration Vaporeon is a male so I can't chain breed Wish onto it hence why I had roar and toxic/ice beam on there. Roar to prevent any sort of set ups from nasty plot//calm mind users. Is Special Wall better than Defensive wall? I know that the SpD stat is higher than its Def stat naturally.

You're Welcome! Hmm... I'm not sure if it's Banned or not under those circumstances, I have to check...

Oh! I see... That's no big deal. It's Competitive Pokemon! :D There are many ways to get around it! ;)

Here's the set I suggest for Vaporeon:

Scald
Toxic
Roar / Protect
Ice Beam

There's only one thing I have to say for this:

I put Protect due to Roar, having a low priority of -6 because a really dangerous Pokemon could switch in after using Roar. But then again, is really helpful on Sweepers and Pokemon that set up.

Protect as aforementioned in my post above, will help stall your opponent with Toxic in effect and guard against Physical moves. Which can prove to be really helpful. Especially for a Special Wall like Vaporeon.

Good Question! I only suggested a Special Wall set because Vaporeon's base Special Defense is 95, It's base HP is 130, and it's base Defense is 60. Now, HP will help sponge in Physical Attacks along with Protect shielding you from them! The Special Wall strategy it's good for Vaporeon but if you'd like to get creative (like I do) then I believe it's possible to create a Physical Wall Vaporeon even if it seems doubtful. ^_^ (For other Pokemon, it depends on their defensive stats to define which wall is better.)

I hope this helped! ^_^
 
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xAnbu

Member
What about physical sweepers? cause the rain I dont think infernape would be a very good with the rest of it so who else would I be able to run in?
 

QuestionClaw

Prince of Doom
Okay, I have three slots filled. I still need a Sweeper and a Wall, the last slot is free. Please give recommendations.




212.gif

Scizor

Item: White Herb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Defense, 4 Defense.
Moveset:
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Agility​

Scizor's function in the team is resist hits so he can boost Braviary's Speed twice with Agility. If he's faster than the opponent and hasn't been hit too hard, he also boosts once with Swords Dance, to finally Baton Pass the boosts to Braviary. Bullet Punch is there because I didn't want to leave him without means of making some damage if needed. Thanks to Technician and the STAB, it makes decent damage. His White Herb prevents the boosts from being canceled.
He's trained to resist as much as possible in battle, and thanks to his awesome typing his only fear is fire.


Braviary_NB.gif

Braviary

Item: Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 HP.
Moveset:
Return
Superpower
Shadow Claw
Brave Bird​

Braviary is specifically designed for 1HKO'ing practically anything that isn't a wall. His moveset covers most types with SE hits, and those that aren't covered get an agressive amount of neutral damage. The Choice Band in combination with the boosts Scizor passed him assure maximum damage, and thanks to his decent Speed stat he can outrun most Pokémon that aren't particullary fast.
Return is his main attack backed up by the STAB, with Superpower as a desperate measure if he needs to break a Steel, Rock or Ice type. Brave Bird also gets a STAB and deals a humungous amount of damage that only very defensive Electric, Rock and Steel Pokémon have a chance of surviving. Shadow Claw is there in case of Ghost or Psychic types.


344.gif

Claydol
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 Defense, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Defense.
Moveset:
Light Screen
Reflect
Rapid Spin
Earth Power/Stealth Rock​

Claydol is a Spinner that is powerful in both defenses. Thanks to this he can last many turns without getting in real trouble. Other than that, he can use Light Screen and Reflect to back up Braviary's weak defenses (as well as making a possible Offensive Tank out of a Sweeper, still to be defined)
His Earth Power is there for the same reason Scizor has Bullet Punch. I still can't decide if I should change it for Stealth Rock, so advice is appreciated.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Okay, I have three slots filled. I still need a Sweeper and a Wall, the last slot is free. Please give recommendations.




212.gif

Scizor

Item: White Herb
Ability: Technician
Nature: Careful
EVs: 252 HP, 252 Sp. Defense, 4 Defense.
Moveset:
Baton Pass
Swords Dance
Bullet Punch
Agility​

Scizor's function in the team is resist hits so he can boost Braviary's Speed twice with Agility. If he's faster than the opponent and hasn't been hit too hard, he also boosts once with Swords Dance, to finally Baton Pass the boosts to Braviary. Bullet Punch is there because I didn't want to leave him without means of making some damage if needed. Thanks to Technician and the STAB, it makes decent damage. His White Herb prevents the boosts from being canceled.
He's trained to resist as much as possible in battle, and thanks to his awesome typing his only fear is fire.


Braviary_NB.gif

Braviary

Item: Choice Band
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 4 HP.
Moveset:
Return
Superpower
Shadow Claw
Brave Bird​

Braviary is specifically designed for 1HKO'ing practically anything that isn't a wall. His moveset covers most types with SE hits, and those that aren't covered get an agressive amount of neutral damage. The Choice Band in combination with the boosts Scizor passed him assure maximum damage, and thanks to his decent Speed stat he can outrun most Pokémon that aren't particullary fast.
Return is his main attack backed up by the STAB, with Superpower as a desperate measure if he needs to break a Steel, Rock or Ice type. Brave Bird also gets a STAB and deals a humungous amount of damage that only very defensive Electric, Rock and Steel Pokémon have a chance of surviving. Shadow Claw is there in case of Ghost or Psychic types.


344.gif

Claydol
Item: Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Calm
EVs: 252 Defense, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Defense.
Moveset:
Light Screen
Reflect
Rapid Spin
Earth Power/Stealth Rock​

Claydol is a Spinner that is powerful in both defenses. Thanks to this he can last many turns without getting in real trouble. Other than that, he can use Light Screen and Reflect to back up Braviary's weak defenses (as well as making a possible Offensive Tank out of a Sweeper, still to be defined)
His Earth Power is there for the same reason Scizor has Bullet Punch. I still can't decide if I should change it for Stealth Rock, so advice is appreciated.

I think you meant Mental Herb on Scizor.

If this is a Baton Pass chain, I'd recommend an Espeon to bounce back Taunts, as well as a Ninjask to lead and free up moveslots thanks to Speed Boost.
 

azeem40

Pokemon is fun!
Mental Herb allows you to negate the effects of Taunt, so you can pull off a BP.
 
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