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Team Building Help Thread

genwinner

HM 06: Blast
Hello^^. I'm new here *waves* and I have two questions.

One! Is there a site where there's a lot of activity/ posting about 3rd gen games? Serebii doesn't seem to have much.

Two! Since I'm not going to get an answer in any other subforum, this seemed like the best place to ask. I'm making a 3-poke team for the battle tower in GBA Sapphire, level 50.

I've picked out Heracross, Salamence, and Skarmory. I don't know where my copy of Emerald is, otherwise I would have gone with Gengar over Salamence for the Ice Punch. Do you think this team is okay? It lacks an Ice Beam, but it seems like the only significant type that this matters for is pure ground.

If this isn't a good setup, what is? Could replacing Skarmory with Regice work?

salamence + intimidate + soft sand/dragon fang
EVs: SpAtk, Spd; Rash/ Mild

fire blast
thunder/ thunderbolt
earthquake
dragon claw

heracross + guts + silverpowder
EVs: Atk, Spd; Adamant

megahorn
swordsdance
brick break
rock slide

skarmory + keen eye + leftovers
EVs: HP, SpDef; Careful

rest/ sky attack
toxic
spikes
whirlwind
 

Yknot

Дми́трий Дми́триевич
Hello^^. I'm new here *waves* and I have two questions.

One! Is there a site where there's a lot of activity/ posting about 3rd gen games? Serebii doesn't seem to have much.

Two! Since I'm not going to get an answer in any other subforum, this seemed like the best place to ask. I'm making a 3-poke team for the battle tower in GBA Sapphire, level 50.

I've picked out Heracross, Salamence, and Skarmory. I don't know where my copy of Emerald is, otherwise I would have gone with Gengar over Salamence for the Ice Punch. Do you think this team is okay? It lacks an Ice Beam, but it seems like the only significant type that this matters for is pure ground.

If this isn't a good setup, what is? Could replacing Skarmory with Regice work?

salamence + intimidate + soft sand/dragon fang
EVs: SpAtk, Spd; Rash/ Mild

fire blast
thunder/ thunderbolt
earthquake
dragon claw

heracross + guts + silverpowder
EVs: Atk, Spd; Adamant

megahorn
swordsdance
brick break
rock slide

skarmory + keen eye + leftovers
EVs: HP, SpDef; Careful

rest/ sky attack
toxic
spikes
whirlwind

Hi, I think you want this thread instead http://www.serebiiforums.com/forumdisplay.php?119-Older-Gen-RMT

but I will VM you a suggestion that helped me beat the battle tower.
 

NitroLightningFlash

Well-Known Member
Xerneas should generally just be 4HP/252SpAtk/252Spd or 44Def/212SpAtk/252Spd. The 44Def can ensure that you live a variety of strong moves (like from M-Kangaskhan, M-Rayquaza, and an Intimidated M-Mawile) if you don't have support or redirection for it, and 212SpAtk still picks up ALL the relevant OHKOs that 252SpAtk does too. Modest is ok, but Timid is preferred. You'll want to get a Geomancy off and get to +2 SpDef before potentially taking an Eruption, Water Spout, or Origin Pulse from opposing fast Groudons and Kyogres. For example, against a Timid Kyogre's full power Water Spout, you have a chance to be OHKO'd (252 SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Xerneas in Heavy Rain: 186-220 (92 - 108.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO). You really need Dazzling Gleam on a VGC Xerneas, and Protect is a MUST on almost everything in VGC (unless you are Choiced, Assault Vested, are a fully support Pokemon like Crobat or your Meowstic, or at least have Fake Out). Unless your team has a massive need for other moves, Xerneas's 4th move is usually Moonblast. The power from it is just insane (HP Ground is nice for Groudon, but both it and Moonblast are 2HKOs anyway at +2), and without it you can't OHKO things like M-Kang or other (unboosted) Xerneas. There was actually a Pokemon of the Week feature Serebii did on Xerneas a couple weeks ago, and the discussion thread (#124) has some decent talk on Xerneas in VGC if you want to check that out.

Groudon's moves look ok, though since you currently don't have any Flying-types or Pokemon with Levitate, consider Precipice Blades over EQ. The drop in accuracy hurts (you can make up for this by running Gravity, which Meowstic learns), but not hitting your teammate without Protecting is worth it. You have way too much defensive investment though. If you want a bulky Groudon that can take hits, definitely invest in SpDef over Def and a Sassy nature (or Brave, if you want more attack). Ideally you want a 0spd IV as well. Your weather will override any Modest or Timid Kyogres, but any Quiet ones built for Trick Room will likely have a 0spd IV, so you want to speed tie them at the very least.

Lopunny looks good, but since you do have Fake Out to help you safely mega evolve (just watch out for any Inner Focus Kangs!), you can choose to run another move like Encore or an elemental punch, but Protect is still great. One very small thing to consider is running Frustration over Return for the rare Ditto you run into or if an opposing Smeargle uses Transform, but that's a very minor detail.

I think screens are good and really underrated in this format, but I rarely see them. Light Clay is good, but if you feel like your battles are ending relatively quickly (I've found that happening at times in this format with all the power around) and you don't need the extra turns of screens, you could give Meowstic Mental Herb (especially since you don't have an attacking move) or something to help its longevity like Sitrus Berry. Quick Guard is nice, but Yawn is really pretty useless compared to other sleep-inducing moves. Fake Out (to help you set up Xerneas up), Helping Hand, Role Play (to get the sun back if a Kyogre comes out later in the battle, though you do lose Prankster until you switch out or copy another ability), Safeguard (no more issues with Dark Void!), Thunder Wave, Trick (not that good but could be a fun way to deal with opposing Xerneas), Magic Coat (again, mainly for Dark Void), and, like I said before to give you perfect accuracy P-blades, Gravity, are all much better options to consider.

Overall I think your first four Pokemon are fine choices. Smeargle could be an issue currently depending on the matchup, but you have some options to give Meowstic or add other Pokemon to handle it. Speed control for your Groudon could be nice, and Trick Room would be ideal since yours is so slow. Cresselia (who can Skill Swap to reset the sun and also set up Gravity), Bronzong (also gets Skill Swap and Gravity I think, and handles Xerneas well), Gengar (not a common one but it's been used effectively in the past, and the opponent doesn't see it coming), Gothitelle, Whimsicott, and Meowstic are some of the most common users. You have a nice fast mode with Geo Xerneas, M-Lopunny, and a Prankster user, so a slow mode could be a nice option to have as well.

Hi there sorry about the really slow reply but i just wanted to say thank you very much for your advice! Unfortunately due to unforseen circumstances and things the past couple months, i wasn't able to compete in the competition in the end, but now things are looking better, so now i'll get to work getting a better Xerneas and Groudon with the proper natures and proper EV's, i'm so bad at this lol ^^;

Yeah truthfully i wasn't sure about Yawn/a fourth move for Meowstic, now i will probably replace it with Fake Out/Safeguard/Thunder Wave as you say (Meowstic has so many good moves...wish we could have more than four moves on Pokemon right now...xD). Will probably use Cresselia for Gravity since it seems quite defensive, also may use Whimsicott (not sure what to give Whimsicott yet though ^^; ). When i've sorted out the EV's, attacks IV's and things i'll come back and report on how it looks. Thank you so much again!! ^^
 

Ryohei

Shiny Hunter
Hello, I'm a n00b to competitive battling. Is there a basic rule in team building on the composition of the team? (For example there should be 2 physical sweepers, 2 special sweepers, 1 wall, 1 tank or something.)
If there isn't such thing, whats the most commonly used strategy in team building in terms of the composition?
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Hello, I'm a n00b to competitive battling. Is there a basic rule in team building on the composition of the team? (For example there should be 2 physical sweepers, 2 special sweepers, 1 wall, 1 tank or something.)
If there isn't such thing, whats the most commonly used strategy in team building in terms of the composition?

There is no universal rule, rather there's a number of archetypes usually used when building a team. The most common archetypes are Hyper/Heavy Offense (HO), Bulky Offence, Balanced, Weather Offense, and Stall.

While more experienced players will usually use one of these archetypes, for your first team I'd recommend simply choosing a viable Pokemon and building a team around that, letting the archetype go where it will. Remember that the point of building your first team is to learn, not to immediately build the best team ever. So choose a Pokemon you like that has some competitive use, think about its strengths and weaknesses, and begin choosing teammates based on those strengths and weaknesses.

While there is no strict format, most teams will want a Pokemon to remove the ubiquitous Stealth Rock and other entry hazards with either the move Rapid Spin or Defog. You'll also want to avoid stacking too many physical or special attackers in most cases but this can be worked around fairly easily. Lastly, most teams will want a Pokemon with Stealth Rock of their own to help maintain offensive pressure on the opponent, or rack up passive damage on stall teams. Various spinners/defoggers include Starmie, Excadrill, Latios, Scizor, Zapdos, and many others, while Stealth Rockers are equally diverse. Some special mentions include Landorus-T, Heatran, Azelf, Skarmory, and again Excadrill, but there's many other options too if those don't fit on your team.
 
Hi all,

I am new/awful competitive battling so please be nice. I have been trying to develop a unique team that would be different but effective in battling. Once I battled some other people I started to add a few more stereotypical options. I am not entirely happy with these though.

Typhlosion @ Charcoal
Flash Fire Modest
EVs 252 Sp/SpA 6 Def
Eruption
Extrasensory
Flamethrower
Rock Slide

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite/ Assault Vest
Timid, Synchronize (my current Gardevoir has this ability and I am using at as it has 6IV, however I would like to get a Trace or Telepathy Gardevoir).
EVs 252 Sp 252 SpAttack 6 HP
Hyper voice
Psychic
Dazzling Gleam
Focus Blast

Clefable @ Leftovers/ Sitrus Berry
Magic Guard Bold
EVs 252 HP 110 Def 136 Sp Def
Follow Me
Minimize
Dazzling Gleam
Flamethrower

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Timid Prankster
EVs 252 Speed 252 Sp Attack
Grass Knot
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
Taunt

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Jolly Scrappy
EVs 252 Speed 252 Attack 6 Def
Earthquake
Fake Out
Drain Punch
Return

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Modest Stance Change (I know people like Quiet for this but I don't understand why.. I am only using special attacks and would like Aegislash while its speed is bad to not be completely awful)
EV's 252 HP 252 SP Attack 4 Speed
Kings Shield
Wide Guard
Shadow Ball
Flash Cannon

At the moment, I really like my Clefable and Gardevoir. I feel they contribute a lot to my team and have been strong in battles. Kangaskhan has been disappointing. It is 5IV in all but Sp Attack. Yet despite being EV trained as well, does not outspeed other Kangaskhans making fake out useless. I also find it is KO'd in about one hit.

Thundurus is the same. I am disappointed as I find it is KO'd easily. I SR'd for a Thundurus that was timid and had a 31 IV in speed and special attack. However I feel this has come at the cost of defense and special defense. About 1 rock slide will KO Thundurus so it doesn't seem worth it to have it in my team for one hit only to be KO'd. It is also hard to get a Thundurus with betters IVs as it is not breedable.

I am also very aware that this team leaves a lot of weaknesses and is not very strategic, meaning that I rely a lot on attacks rather than stat boosts/ changes.

Anyway, I am open to suggestions of what I can do. Even new pokemon as replacements.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Hi all,

I am new/awful competitive battling so please be nice. I have been trying to develop a unique team that would be different but effective in battling. Once I battled some other people I started to add a few more stereotypical options. I am not entirely happy with these though.

Typhlosion @ Charcoal
Flash Fire Modest
EVs 252 Sp/SpA 6 Def
Eruption
Extrasensory
Flamethrower
Rock Slide

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite/ Assault Vest
Timid, Synchronize (my current Gardevoir has this ability and I am using at as it has 6IV, however I would like to get a Trace or Telepathy Gardevoir).
EVs 252 Sp 252 SpAttack 6 HP
Hyper voice
Psychic
Dazzling Gleam
Focus Blast

Clefable @ Leftovers/ Sitrus Berry
Magic Guard Bold
EVs 252 HP 110 Def 136 Sp Def
Follow Me
Minimize
Dazzling Gleam
Flamethrower

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Timid Prankster
EVs 252 Speed 252 Sp Attack
Grass Knot
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
Taunt

Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Jolly Scrappy
EVs 252 Speed 252 Attack 6 Def
Earthquake
Fake Out
Drain Punch
Return

Aegislash @ Weakness Policy
Modest Stance Change (I know people like Quiet for this but I don't understand why.. I am only using special attacks and would like Aegislash while its speed is bad to not be completely awful)
EV's 252 HP 252 SP Attack 4 Speed
Kings Shield
Wide Guard
Shadow Ball
Flash Cannon

At the moment, I really like my Clefable and Gardevoir. I feel they contribute a lot to my team and have been strong in battles. Kangaskhan has been disappointing. It is 5IV in all but Sp Attack. Yet despite being EV trained as well, does not outspeed other Kangaskhans making fake out useless. I also find it is KO'd in about one hit.

Thundurus is the same. I am disappointed as I find it is KO'd easily. I SR'd for a Thundurus that was timid and had a 31 IV in speed and special attack. However I feel this has come at the cost of defense and special defense. About 1 rock slide will KO Thundurus so it doesn't seem worth it to have it in my team for one hit only to be KO'd. It is also hard to get a Thundurus with betters IVs as it is not breedable.

I am also very aware that this team leaves a lot of weaknesses and is not very strategic, meaning that I rely a lot on attacks rather than stat boosts/ changes.

Anyway, I am open to suggestions of what I can do. Even new pokemon as replacements.

Hmm. You've got moves like Follow Me and Wide Guard here so is this for doubles? I'm definitely not the person to go to for doubles so I'll refrain from commenting, but the one thing I will say is that Aegislash wants to be Quiet with 0 Speed IVs because it's one of the only Pokemon that wants to be outsped. It wants to be outsped by as much as possible so it can take hits in its much bulkier Shield forme before switching to its frail-as-glass Sword form to attack. Quiet would also allow you to more effectively run the Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak combo which is famous for being able to dispatch a large portion of the metagame, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in doubles.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Hmm. You've got moves like Follow Me and Wide Guard here so is this for doubles? I'm definitely not the person to go to for doubles so I'll refrain from commenting, but the one thing I will say is that Aegislash wants to be Quiet with 0 Speed IVs because it's one of the only Pokemon that wants to be outsped. It wants to be outsped by as much as possible so it can take hits in its much bulkier Shield forme before switching to its frail-as-glass Sword form to attack. Quiet would also allow you to more effectively run the Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak combo which is famous for being able to dispatch a large portion of the metagame, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in doubles.
Doubles OU Aegislash sometimes Speed creep each other with Modest (or even run investment so they can beat Thundurus while under the effects of Tailwind), and I don't think they run physical attacks at all due to the prevalence of Intimidate.

I can't speak for the official Doubles format, but I think it's the same thing.
 

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I am new/awful competitive battling so please be nice. I have been trying to develop a unique team that would be different but effective in battling. Once I battled some other people I started to add a few more stereotypical options. I am not entirely happy with these though.

Which format is this for?

Doubles OU Aegislash sometimes Speed creep each other with Modest (or even run investment so they can beat Thundurus while under the effects of Tailwind), and I don't think they run physical attacks at all due to the prevalence of Intimidate.

I can't speak for the official Doubles format, but I think it's the same thing.

Agree with this completely. Life Orb Shadow Ball has a chance to OHKO other Aegislash in shield form, and Helping Hand Shadow Ball is a guaranteed OHKO on most common sets, so they were built to speed creep each other later in the season. Shadow Sneak was a common 4th move, especially on Weakness Policy sets (at +2 it OHKOs M-Gardy), but yeah you don't see any physical moves other than Iron Head or Gyro Ball for Xerneas this year (which this team here isn't for hopefully).
 
Which format is this for?



Agree with this completely. Life Orb Shadow Ball has a chance to OHKO other Aegislash in shield form, and Helping Hand Shadow Ball is a guaranteed OHKO on most common sets, so they were built to speed creep each other later in the season. Shadow Sneak was a common 4th move, especially on Weakness Policy sets (at +2 it OHKOs M-Gardy), but yeah you don't see any physical moves other than Iron Head or Gyro Ball for Xerneas this year (which this team here isn't for hopefully).

Yes, my team is for double battling.

Also, are you suggesting changes to the moveset of my Aegislash? Thank you for explaining the importance of a quiet nature.

Any other feedback on my other pokemon?

My Cousin said Typhlosion was a bad addition. However it is my favourite pokemon so I would like to include it. Also if a Pachirisu can be used competitively, I feel Typhlosion can too.
 

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
Yes, my team is for double battling.

Also, are you suggesting changes to the moveset of my Aegislash? Thank you for explaining the importance of a quiet nature.

Any other feedback on my other pokemon?

My Cousin said Typhlosion was a bad addition. However it is my favourite pokemon so I would like to include it. Also if a Pachirisu can be used competitively, I feel Typhlosion can too.

Sorry just to clarify (so I know exactly which threats to talk about for your team), which doubles format? Battle spot doubles (aka VGC 2015), smogon doubles, or VGC 2016 (which I assume this isn't since you don't have 2 "restricted" legends on the team, but I have run into some people who try to battle without them lol)? Right away I will say though that most Pokemon in doubles NEED Protect (unless they are choiced, holding an Assault Vest, or are at least running Fake Out or a fully support moveset), so your Typhlosion and Gardevoir at least need that. EQ on Kang in doubles is also bad, since you don't get the Parental Bond effects on a double target. Sucker Punch is much better, and honestly Low Kick or PuP are generally better than Drain Punch.

Typhlosion isn't terrible, but it also isn't great. I think you should definitely try it out though and see how it works for you. Pachirisu was a completely different scenario, as its used solely as a support Pokemon with moves like Follow Me (which combined with Pachirisu's Volt Absorb, paired perfectly with the Mega Gyarados on the team that initially made it famous), Nuzzle, and Super Fang, while Typhlosion isn't much of a support Pokemon. While it doesn't have a deep movepool to choose from, it's still mainly an attacker, but its problem is that it is generally outclassed by other options :/
 
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Sorry just to clarify (so I know exactly which threats to talk about for your team), which doubles format? Battle spot doubles (aka VGC 2015), smogon doubles, or VGC 2016 (which I assume this isn't since you don't have 2 "restricted" legends on the team, but I have run into some people who try to battle without them lol)? Right away I will say though that most Pokemon in doubles NEED Protect (unless they are choiced, holding an Assault Vest, or are at least running Fake Out or a fully support moveset), so your Typhlosion and Gardevoir at least need that. EQ on Kang in doubles is also bad, since you don't get the Parental Bond effects on a double target. Sucker Punch is much better, and honestly Low Kick or PuP are generally better than Drain Punch.

Typhlosion isn't terrible, but it also isn't great. I think you should definitely try it out though and see how it works for you. Pachirisu was a completely different scenario, as its used solely as a support Pokemon with moves like Follow Me (which combined with Pachirisu's Volt Absorb, paired perfectly with the Mega Gyarados on the team that initially made it famous), Nuzzle, and Super Fang, while Typhlosion isn't much of a support Pokemon. While it doesn't have a deep movepool to choose from, it's still mainly an attacker, but its problem is that it is generally outclassed by other options :/

I currently participate in battlespot doubles, however if I started winning a lot I would try to go to VGC. I missed regionals for this year (I was not able to go) and I have never been so, unlikely. I have recently changed Kanga for Kyogre. I don't like using legendaries but it has really enhanced my team.

I have Kyogre @ blue orb
84 Speed 252 Sp Attack and 168 HP
It does have a quiet nature though which obviously isn't ideal but when I was playing through the game I didn't use a synch.
Calm mind
Ice beam
Thunder
Origin pulse

Typhlosion is on my team as it is my favourite Pokemon.

I find it sad that out of over 700 Pokemon everyone picks the same ones. I try to be a little bit different :)

'Strong Pokemon. Weak Pokemon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truely skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites' - Elite four Karen.
 

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
I currently participate in battlespot doubles, however if I started winning a lot I would try to go to VGC. I missed regionals for this year (I was not able to go) and I have never been so, unlikely. I have recently changed Kanga for Kyogre. I don't like using legendaries but it has really enhanced my team.

I have Kyogre @ blue orb
84 Speed 252 Sp Attack and 168 HP
It does have a quiet nature though which obviously isn't ideal but when I was playing through the game I didn't use a synch.
Calm mind
Ice beam
Thunder
Origin pulse

Typhlosion is on my team as it is my favourite Pokemon.

I find it sad that out of over 700 Pokemon everyone picks the same ones. I try to be a little bit different :)

'Strong Pokemon. Weak Pokemon. That is only the selfish perception of people. Truely skilled trainers should try to win with their favourites' - Elite four Karen.

I'm very sorry, but I'm very confused now lol If you're adding Primal Kyogre you won't be on Battle Spot Doubles anymore, instead that'll be the Special format they have for VGC16. I can give advice for either format, but my recommendation for either will be very different for Typhlosion. Let's just say that if you want to keep Typhlosion on the team, you really should stick to Battle Spot Doubles. With the Primals presence in VGC16/Battle Spot Special, Typhlosion completely loses any usefulness it had :/
 
I'm very sorry, but I'm very confused now lol If you're adding Primal Kyogre you won't be on Battle Spot Doubles anymore, instead that'll be the Special format they have for VGC16. I can give advice for either format, but my recommendation for either will be very different for Typhlosion. Let's just say that if you want to keep Typhlosion on the team, you really should stick to Battle Spot Doubles. With the Primals presence in VGC16/Battle Spot Special, Typhlosion completely loses any usefulness it had :/

Okay lets see if I can explain this and also understand where you are coming from haha.

I added Kyogre to my team as I wanted to see the difference having a legendary made. Also, if I were to get good at battling I would have an idea of which two I would want on my team - if that makes sense?

Right now... I do not have the understanding/ team built to deal with skill swap, taunt, fake out, follow me, trick room etc. However if I were to able to get good at battlespot, I would use some if not all of these pokemon in VGC16, if that makes sense?

My main issue with this is that with VGC.. I don't like a lot of the pokemon that are known successes, so this makes it difficult for me to make a team purely for VGC. I would like to be a bit different.

From what I can understand is that you are almost suggesting having 2 teams. 1 for battlespot and 1 for VGC16.

If this is correct, your opinion for both would be nice :)

Also, how does adding Kyogre mean I am not on battlespot doubles? I thought you could just use any pokemon as there arent really a whole lot of rules.

I understand what you mean by Kyogre and Typhlosion do not match as with the torrential rainfall all fire attacks are useless.
 
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EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
Alright I think I see...you're on Free Battles on Battle Spot Doubles, right? I made the mistake of assuming Rating Battles on Battle Spot Doubles/Special. It's a little tougher to give advice for Free Battles, since it's not really much of a format since ANYTHING can be brought there, including a team of 6 ubers that would likely crush the 6 Pokemon you currently have (including Kyogre) no matter what, or Lati@s with Soul Dew, an item that is normally banned.

As for my recommendations for Battle Spot Doubles Rating Battles (aka VGC15 back in the day, and Kyogre is banned in this format)...Typhlosion should really be 1 of 3 things...Timid with a boosting item (Charcoal is fine, but Life Orb (which is taken up by Thundy right now) or Choice Specs really help him a lot more), Modest with a Choice Scarf to fire off at least one full health Eruption, or Modest with speed control support. T-Wave on Thundy is good, but you could really use a second form. Minimize is not something I like on Clefable. While it can be annoying to your opponent, it relies completely on luck. I would replace that with Icy Wind. Most (unboosted) Pokemon at -1 speed will be outsped by your Typhlosion then. Coming back to Typhlosion, unless you are going to be Scarfed, I would replace Rock Slide with Protect. His attack stat is mediocre, and is even worse with a Modest nature and no investment. If you end up going Scarf, replace RS with Focus Blast (not normally a move I suggest in doubles due to the accuracy, but he doesn't really have any other options, unless you rebreed for a Hidden Power).

AV Gardevoir is not very good. Since you can have 2 megas on the team and only need to bring 1 then, definitely stick with the mega. Having both Hyper Voice and Dazzling Gleam doesn't really make sense either, so drop D-Gleam for Protect. Again, I don't think Focus Miss is very good, so you should consider something like Shadow Ball (or HP Ground for Heatran) instead. Definitely use an Ability Capsule to get Trace. Telepathy doesn't help you since you don't have moves like Surf or EQ, and Tracing things like Intimidate or Swift Swim can really benefit you before you mega evolve.

Is there anything in particular your Clefable spread does? I'm more of a fan of Sitrus for a Pokemon like Clefable, but Leftovers can be ok too. Really comes down to personal preference. Magic Guard isn't bad, but I've always found Unaware to generally be more useful since you can ignore stat boosts from things like PuP M-Kang or BD Azumarill with Follow Me if Unaware is your ability, which can buy your team some more turns to take out those threats instead of being steamrolled once they boost. I would replace D-Gleam with Moonblast, and Flamethrower probably isn't necessary since you have fire coverage elsewhere and Clefable should really only be out there for speed control and to use Follow Me. Protect, Helping Hand, or Thunder Wave are all solid options.

Thundurus looks pretty good, though Grass Knot is sort of redundant in this format. HP Ice is a much better option.

Again with Kang, EQ is a wasted move in doubles with no Parental Bond effect, and PuP or Low Kick are generally better than Drain Punch. You can consider Double Edge for the extra firepower as well, unless you do go with PuP, in which case I would say stick with Return.

Aegislash looks solid too, tho definitely consider the nature change like others have already suggested. If you want to be min speed, move those 4 speed EVs into SpDef as well.


Now as for Battle Spot Special Rating Battles (which is also currently the same as VGC16)... P-Kyogre is a great restricted legend. Your current spread doesn't really make sense though. A Quiet nature with some speed investment is counter-productive. If you stick with Quiet nature, you'll probably want to run Trick Room, which would change a lot of things on your team. Without TR, ideally you'll want a Modest or Timid nature. There isn't really any time to use Calm Mind in this format, and Kyogre has massive special stats already. Protect is definitely needed there, and since you already have Thundurus with an electric move, I don't think Thunder is a requirement. Water Spout generally goes fairly well with a fast Kyogre, and then you can keep O-Pulse or try Scald for a 100% accuracy move you can use at lower health or to avoid Wide Guard.

If you want to keep Typhlosion, you'll probably have to do 1 of 2 things. Either never bring it to a battle against an opposing P-Kyogre (and really you can't attack with it with your own Kyogre on the field either), or have an Air Lock (Rayquaza) or Cloud Nine (Golduck is the "best" one, which isn't saying a whole lot unfortunately lol) Pokemon. Typhlosion still can't really touch P-Kyogre even with this support though unfortunately :/ I'm all for using unique or your favorite Pokemon and strategies (I've ranked very high with a Parasect and M-Scizor this year, and done fairly well with things like M-Gallade and Lapras in VGC15), but some things will just struggle, which is why I suggested sticking to Battle Spot Doubles if you want to use Typhlosion.

For a 2nd restricted legendary, P-Groudon is king right now and dual Primal teams are very good (this would greatly help your Typhlosion too), Rayquaza is very good (even as a non-mega if you bring another mega to the battle, and the "Ray-Ogre" core is very strong), and Geomancy Xerneas is essentially a better M-Gardevoir this year. There's other restricted legends that can work or have had success, but those are the "big" ones. M-Kang is very good in this format, so you may want to keep that as your mega instead. Thundy and Aegislash are still solid options here. Aegislash may want Iron Head or Gyro Ball to deal with opposing Geomancy Xerneas better, but Thundy should be ok (Protect, HP Ice, or HP Water are likely better alternatives over Grass Knot though).

One final thing I'll add for both team suggestions is that you seem a little Trick Room weak IF it goes up. One potential solution to to use Clefairy over Clefable. While you're unfortunately stuck with Eviolite, they are otherwise pretty similar and Clefairy has a better ability in Friend Guard to support your team. Most importantly, Clefairy is slower and can use After You to help your other Pokemon attack sooner while under TR.
 
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Skyknight

Active Member
I decided it was time to really get around to developing an OU-friendly team (poor Galvantula...It's still my favorite, but...)--actually, make that developing a PvP team, period--and this is what I've cobbled together for my first chart. OU-friendly because I want to be able to use this on-cartridge, and I can guess at what type of threats I'll likely run into. (Now I just have to hope I won't get out-gunned by the likes of Kangaskhan and Gengar...)

BERATIEL
Amoonguss@Black Sludge
Calm, Regenerator (I do wonder why Smogon suggested Bold and not Calm, when Amoonguss has better SDef to multiply...shoring up weaknesses?)
--Giga Drain
--Clear Smog
--Spore
--Sludge Bomb/Foul Play

VEQUANIEL
Rotom-Wash@Leftovers
Bold, Levitate
--Hydro Pump
--Will-o-Wisp
--Volt Switch
--Pain Split

NARCORIEL
Gallade@Galladite
Jolly, Justified->Inner Focus
--Swords Dance/Bulk Up
--Psycho Cut (I think this is long-term actually slightly more potent than Zen Headbutt. It's going to depend on how much more often it criticals, though. For reference, I consider ZH's "true" power to be 72--80*.9)
--Drain Punch
--Ice Punch

BARIEL
Bisharp@Lum Berry
Adamant, Defiant
--Sucker Punch
--Iron Head
--Swords Dance
--Knock Off

OSMADIEL
Talonflame@Sky Plate
Adamant, Gale Wings
--Flare Blitz
--Brave Bird
--U-Turn
--Defog

ZAAZENACH
Clefable@Sitrus Berry
Bold, Unaware
--Wish
--Moonblast
--Flamethrower
--Heal Bell

(I know the standard is Protect on the third slot, but I'm not about to trap a critter with just one attack. I just hope I'm not hamstringing it...)

Truth be told, I was originally going to use Mamoswine instead of Clefable, but I realized that would give me four physical/two special, rather than three of each. At least I can still stab everything that isn't pure Electric.

I will admit that I'm feeling a bit leery about this, possibly in part because I relied on Smogon to find out the usual movelists quite a bit, and probably in part because I don't seem to have a dedicated special striker in here. I would like to keep at least Amoonguss, Rotom, and Gallade; it's the latter three I'm feeling most ambivalent about. (I suppose it might also be a matter of whether I really need a cleric, and thus can make an attempt at turning Clefable into a striker.) In other words, if you think it justified, you can jettison Bisharp, Talonflame, and/or Clefable to make room for critters that you think support the other three better.
 

EKZ1505

Well-Known Member
OSMADIEL
Talonflame@Sky Plate
Adamant, Gale Wings
--Flare Blitz
--Brave Bird
--U-Turn
--Defog

Talonflame doesn't get Defog, and you're missing EV spreads on everything
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Running Defog on Talonflame if it got it would be highly questionable, anyway.
 

Skyknight

Active Member
{grumble} Knew I should have double-checked about Defog (the original had Tailwind; I panicked when I realized I had no way to dispel entry hazards, and mistakenly thought Defog was a tutor move)...In any case, I was saving the EV formations for after the movesets got hammered out.
 

Divine Retribution

Conquistador de pan
Running Defog on Talonflame if it got it would be highly questionable, anyway.

Honestly priority Defog would have some merit (the only other Pokemon to get this is Murkrow...). I mean, it would be hard pressed to find room on most of its sets, but a utility set with Brave Bird / Defog / Roost / Will-O-Wisp wouldn't be an awful set.

Either way it is currently illegal, so replace Defog with Roost IMO.
 
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