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Team DeoChi! (OU RMT)
- Thread starter Triple Z
- Start date
Yeah, it was. Though Scarf Terrakion/Landorus can't really match Deo's versatility. Well, nothing can. Thanks for the ideas
Magnezone traps steel types and toxic doesn't affect steels
I kinda want a replacement that can handle Gliscor though.
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garchompmaster29
Xatu>Espeon
I too would like to sway you in the way of Chansey > Blissey. Consider the following damage calculations:
Timid specs Latios draco vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Blissey:
264-312 damage (simulating a very strong and common special attack)
Timid specs Latios draco vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Chansey w eviolite:
219-258 damage
Adamant life orb +1 Gyarados waterfall in the rain vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Blissey:
738-868 damage (simulating a very powerful physical attack)
Adamant life orb +1 Gyarados waterfall in the rain vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Chansey w eviolite:
538-634 damage
This means chansey is 19.3% more specially bulky, and a little over 29.8% more physically bulky than is Blissey (factoring in Blissey's 10 additional hp).
The only advantage your Blissey then has is leftovers. While leftovers are very nice to have, Blissey/Chansey are at many times at full health due to their more than ample opportunities to recover. This nerfs the effectivness of the leftovers and thus Chansey is superior. The only time Blissey is better is on some wish + protect varients and if you run ice beam/flamethrower (which is VERY uncommon in high level play).
Timid specs Latios draco vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Blissey:
264-312 damage (simulating a very strong and common special attack)
Timid specs Latios draco vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Chansey w eviolite:
219-258 damage
Adamant life orb +1 Gyarados waterfall in the rain vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Blissey:
738-868 damage (simulating a very powerful physical attack)
Adamant life orb +1 Gyarados waterfall in the rain vs 252 hp / 252 defense / 4 spD bold Chansey w eviolite:
538-634 damage
This means chansey is 19.3% more specially bulky, and a little over 29.8% more physically bulky than is Blissey (factoring in Blissey's 10 additional hp).
The only advantage your Blissey then has is leftovers. While leftovers are very nice to have, Blissey/Chansey are at many times at full health due to their more than ample opportunities to recover. This nerfs the effectivness of the leftovers and thus Chansey is superior. The only time Blissey is better is on some wish + protect varients and if you run ice beam/flamethrower (which is VERY uncommon in high level play).
Ninja Dewott
Ice Cold Fire
Leftovers really make a large difference though...
garchompmaster29
Xatu>Espeon
While it does make a difference, Chansey and Blissey spend much of their lives at either full health, or in against a special attacker who can do nothing to them (allowing Bliss/Chanse to softboiled on their forced switch) thus essentially putting them at full health a massive amount of the time. Thus the difference that leftovers may have made earlier no longer matters once either of them softboiled up. However when lower on health against a strong physical attacker or even special attacker, it is much better to survive the attack and softboiled, than to not live the attack becuse you didn't have enough bulk.
And I say again, if it was a pure wish Chansey without softboiled then I would go for Blissey simply because of the double leftovers, but as it is, Blisseys leftovers are making a mitigated difference in comparison to what Chanseys bulk would.
And I say again, if it was a pure wish Chansey without softboiled then I would go for Blissey simply because of the double leftovers, but as it is, Blisseys leftovers are making a mitigated difference in comparison to what Chanseys bulk would.
Ninja Dewott
Ice Cold Fire
Hmmmm, the leftovers help to counter sand and hail though, I find them very useful. I guess it's up to trip really.
garchompmaster29
Xatu>Espeon
Yeah your right, its all up to him.
That magnezone is perfect for setting up when you come in on a steel. Im mad I didnt think of that. This is a great team I dont have eneything to fix on it great job. Now you need a good lead... You might as well go with ferothorn everybody else is and you could benefit from it as well.
Nah, ferrothorn wouldn't really benefit this team. I need a strong revenge killer to replace Deoxys-S. Naive Scarf Landorus with HP Ice seems the best way to go, but I'm not sure if he can even OHKO Gliscor with HP Ice.
Oh and I do prefer Blissey over Chansey, but I'll give chansey a go
Oh and I do prefer Blissey over Chansey, but I'll give chansey a go
Nah, ferrothorn wouldn't really benefit this team. I need a strong revenge killer to replace Deoxys-S. Naive Scarf Landorus with HP Ice seems the best way to go, but I'm not sure if he can even OHKO Gliscor with HP Ice.
Oh and I do prefer Blissey over Chansey, but I'll give chansey a go
It should be able to ohko gliscor but deoxys-s is still very good and fast I dont see why that cant ohko gliscor. Chansey is good with evolite but you have to rember that it lacks one turn recovery and having to use softboiled as a replacment for recovery could be costly. Smogon wrote an artical on why chansey is lower than blissey and why lacking one turn recovery can be costly when playing stanard OU/mixed tier battling.
Deoxys-S has been banned, that's the point
I'm gonna run some calcs, and, unless I miscalculated, Landorus needs a SAtk of 324 to guarantee a OHKO on the standard Gliscor, which means 232 SAtk EVs, so that'll be little speed investment.
I'm thinking perhaps running Hydreigon. I would run Latios, but that would make my team too weak to Dark type attacks.
How about this:
Hydreigon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SAtk / 248 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
I'm gonna run some calcs, and, unless I miscalculated, Landorus needs a SAtk of 324 to guarantee a OHKO on the standard Gliscor, which means 232 SAtk EVs, so that'll be little speed investment.
I'm thinking perhaps running Hydreigon. I would run Latios, but that would make my team too weak to Dark type attacks.
How about this:
Hydreigon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SAtk / 248 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
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Zachmac
Well-Known Member
HP ice sounds good at first, but IIRC, Gliscor will be KOed by Draco Meteor. I'd swap that for Fire Blast for coverage against steel types who want to swap in to Draco Meteor.
I would suggest Infernape over Deoxys-S.
Infernape@Expert Belt or Life Orb
Naive/Blaze
252 Att/4 SpA/252 Spe
-Mach Punch/Stone Edge
-Close Combat
-Fire Blast/Overheat
-HP-Ice/HP-Grass
I find this set so good for Revenge Killing unboosted sweepers as well as breaking walls. Infernape can do pretty much what Deoxys could do, with Close Combat as a way to deal with TTars and Trans. Mach Punch really is for those critical moments where Close Combat may or may not hit (e.g. Terrakion) or just killing off faster threats (e.g. Scarfers). Stone Edge just gives it Fighting + Rock coverage, and there's really not much else to that. Fire Blast and Overheat really depends on whether you want sheer power or longevity. Overheat, due to the SpAtt drop, will most of the time will force you to switch when something such as Dragons come in, while Fire Blast allows for less switching, which is critical in a metagame based more around entry hazards in general. The Hidden Power simply addresses leftover threats. HP-Ice RKs Dnite or Drei, KOs Mence, Landorus w/out scarf, or Gliscor. HP-Grass is for the occasional Quag and Gastrodon, in which the former will be a ***** for DDNite to handle and the latter not as much, but can really be one if it burns or toxics you.
As for your Dnite, Fire Punch would be slightly better over Earthquake, simply because it isn't Garchomp or Haxorus. Fire Punch can pretty much remove a majority of the Steel types that wall you current Dnite, such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress and the rare Bronzong, as well as Steel-types already threatened by the previous Earthquake, such as Jirachi.
Thirdly, I would drop Jirachi for Skarmory and Magnezone for Scizor for the sole fact that Haxorus can potentially 6-0 this team. Simply put, your best check to it is Jirachi, in which Lum Berry Haxorus can set up a DDance while you T-Wave it to no avail, and from there, he can clean up your team quite quickly. Skarmory is the best thing that can wall Haxorus due to it being naturally immune to EQ and resisting Outrage. It also adds Spikes damage to the field, facilitating DNite's sweeps. Scizor acts as the Haxorus revenge killer/wallbreaker, but it kinda redundant due to Infernape, but if you feel like it, you can most certainly try Scizor out.
Infernape@Expert Belt or Life Orb
Naive/Blaze
252 Att/4 SpA/252 Spe
-Mach Punch/Stone Edge
-Close Combat
-Fire Blast/Overheat
-HP-Ice/HP-Grass
I find this set so good for Revenge Killing unboosted sweepers as well as breaking walls. Infernape can do pretty much what Deoxys could do, with Close Combat as a way to deal with TTars and Trans. Mach Punch really is for those critical moments where Close Combat may or may not hit (e.g. Terrakion) or just killing off faster threats (e.g. Scarfers). Stone Edge just gives it Fighting + Rock coverage, and there's really not much else to that. Fire Blast and Overheat really depends on whether you want sheer power or longevity. Overheat, due to the SpAtt drop, will most of the time will force you to switch when something such as Dragons come in, while Fire Blast allows for less switching, which is critical in a metagame based more around entry hazards in general. The Hidden Power simply addresses leftover threats. HP-Ice RKs Dnite or Drei, KOs Mence, Landorus w/out scarf, or Gliscor. HP-Grass is for the occasional Quag and Gastrodon, in which the former will be a ***** for DDNite to handle and the latter not as much, but can really be one if it burns or toxics you.
As for your Dnite, Fire Punch would be slightly better over Earthquake, simply because it isn't Garchomp or Haxorus. Fire Punch can pretty much remove a majority of the Steel types that wall you current Dnite, such as Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress and the rare Bronzong, as well as Steel-types already threatened by the previous Earthquake, such as Jirachi.
Thirdly, I would drop Jirachi for Skarmory and Magnezone for Scizor for the sole fact that Haxorus can potentially 6-0 this team. Simply put, your best check to it is Jirachi, in which Lum Berry Haxorus can set up a DDance while you T-Wave it to no avail, and from there, he can clean up your team quite quickly. Skarmory is the best thing that can wall Haxorus due to it being naturally immune to EQ and resisting Outrage. It also adds Spikes damage to the field, facilitating DNite's sweeps. Scizor acts as the Haxorus revenge killer/wallbreaker, but it kinda redundant due to Infernape, but if you feel like it, you can most certainly try Scizor out.
Deoxys-S has been banned, that's the point
I'm gonna run some calcs, and, unless I miscalculated, Landorus needs a SAtk of 324 to guarantee a OHKO on the standard Gliscor, which means 232 SAtk EVs, so that'll be little speed investment.
I'm thinking perhaps running Hydreigon. I would run Latios, but that would make my team too weak to Dark type attacks.
How about this:
Hydreigon (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP / 252 SAtk / 248 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Yes I would go with that it can come in on the switch and revenge kill and its not that much of a liability. I didnt know deoxys-s was banned until today?! Boy I feel like my name....noob
@ Zachamc: That is a fair point, why didn't I think of that. The reason I didn't go with Fire Blast is because Magnezone handles steel types nicely. I think I'll go with Focus Blast, that eliminates the one steel type magnezone can't handle: Heatran.
@ Eagle hawk: I tried Infernape before, but I found Hydreigon to be much better
@ Eagle hawk: I tried Infernape before, but I found Hydreigon to be much better
DragonXmicro
何これ？かえったね。
if needbe, to keep deoxys-s, i would make this team uber, and filling in your walls, etc with decent uber equivalents.