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Team for rating

Skyknight

Active Member
I'm trying for a kind of minelayer team, in the form of Spikes, Stealth Rock, and (in a sense) Sandstorm. This is what came of someone's advice to try to focus on my favorite pokemon and work from there (in this case, Cradily, with Gliscor and Lanturn close seconds). Now, whether I *did* that well at crafting a good team...I'm still not entirely certain it's properly gelled.

Note, by the way, that this is WiFi-oriented; PC programs are not being considered. The EV formations are assuming that all IV's are 15—it'll be easiest to adjust for the actual IV's from there. (And I'll not be surprised if I was aiming at the wrong levels for ideal stats...Min/maxer I am not, since I don't like to get outflanked, as it were) Also, I'm going by the no-item-duplication rule.

GLISCOR; equip Smooth Rock
Jolly
EV formation: 124 Att, 208 Def, 176 Spd
All 15 IV stat result: 275 HP, 241 Att, 322 Def, (99 SAtt), 170 SDef, 279 Spd
Sand Veil
*Earthquake
*Sandstorm
*Any two of Aerial Ace, Thunder Fang, U-Turn

Between Sand Veil and the high defense rating, this should make a very effective physical barricade. Unfortunately, Earthquake is the only particularly potent weapon it has; the next best is Aerial Ace (rating 90, taking type bonus into effect). As if that weren't enough, I've got two very appealing alternatives in Thunder Fang (excellent damage against water threats and Earthquake-avoiding fliers) and U-Turn (can sting the enemy while switching). ({grumble} Aesthetically it's interesting—it's a scorpion, and it has fewer vulnerabilities than either component type—but coming up with a good moveset for this one is a nuisance...)

CRADILY; equip Lum Berry
Calm
EV formation: 96 Def, 160 SAtt, 252 SDef
All 15 IV stat result: 297 HP, (163 Att), 238 Def, 222 SAtt, 326 SDef, 106 Spd
Suction Cups
*Energy Ball
*Ancient Power
*Stealth Rock
*Recover

Suction Cups lets it stay enjoying Sandstorm's SDef bonus (making it all but impervious to most special attacks; hopefully, it can still endure things like Ice Beam and Flash Cannon moderately well) and/or passed bonuses from Mr. Mime. Recover just prolongs its capacity for sticking around. Energy Ball and Ancient Power are the turrets (Stone Edge's suboptimal accuracy worries me...). Basically, a special tank. This resilience means that it can merrily restore the Stealth Rock if it's spinned away.

SKARMORY; equip Salac Berry or Shed Shell
Impish
EV formation: 130 Att, 240 Def, 140 Spd
All 15 IV stat result: 255 HP, 212 Att, 396 Def, (90 SAtt), 160 SDef, 195 Spd
Keen Eye
*Drill Peck
*Steel Wing
*Spikes
*Roar

You could argue that it serves the same role as Gliscor, but this is really more of a minelayer (no Sand Veil, so not QUITE as good a physical barrier). Set the mines with Spikes, then send enemies skittering into them with Roar. Drill Peck and Steel Wing are the turrets. May equip Shed Shell to elude Magnet Pull and Mean Look.

LANTURN; equip Leftovers
Timid
EV formation: 124 HP, 40 Def, 120 SAtt, 104 SDef, 120 Spd
All 15 IV stat result: 406 HP, (122 Att), 146 Def, 202 SAtt, 198 SDef, 202 Spd
Volt Absorb
*Surf
*Thunder
*Rain Dance
*Confuse Ray

Typical parafusion, minted in GSC. Rain Dance gets both powered-up Surf and homing Thunder. Rain Dance is also a boon in case you need to shut off Sandstorm early (say, they sent out their own rock-type to benefit from the sand). Leftovers translates to indirect Sandstorm resilience. Main concern: being able to properly predict when they'll switch in ground-types (i.e. when to use Surf instead of Thunder).

DRAPION; equip Scope Lens
Adamant
EV formation: 252 Att, 72 Def, 64 SDef, 120 Spd
All 15 IV stat result: 265 HP, 289 Att, 258 Def, (126 SAtt), 186 SDef, 240 Spd
Sniper
*Night Slash
*Cross Poison
*Fire Fang
*Whirlwind

Standard physical cannon. Night Slash and Cross Poison benefit from both type bonus and Sniper, and Fire Fang is an unpleasant surprise for steel-types. Whirlwind supplies another way to force enemies into the minefield, in case you can't bring Skarmory in safely.

MR. MIME; equip Bright Powder
Filter
Modest
EV formation: 60 HP, 204 SAtt, 128 SDef, 116 Spd
All 15 IV stat result: 220 HP, (99 Att), 150 Def, 298 SAtt, 292 SDef, 229 Spd
Filter
*Psychic
*Charge Beam
*Barrier
*Baton Pass

I can't bring myself to believe that passing on just one kind of bonus is an efficient use of Baton Pass (except Vaporeon with Aqua Ring, but Lanturn's already taking the water slot); Ninjask loses on account of its two usual passes (physical attack and speed) being of no use for Cradily. Thus began my search for something that could learn both Baton Pass and Charge Beam. This was the best candidate I could find (I think most of the other candidates passed Agility...). Cradily and Lanturn benefit from both Charge Beam and Barrier (and everything benefits from Barrier). Charge Beam also makes a nice sidearm in case Mr. Mime ends up alone against a dark-type. You could even argue that Mr. Mime makes for a special glass cannon.

Other notes and concerns:

—If there's a good way to do it, I'd like to give Gliscor Stealth Rock and have Cradily equip Confuse Ray instead. The problem (besides whether Gliscor is the better minelayer to begin with) is that Gliscor's sidearms will become a bit compromised; only one of Aerial Ace, Thunder Fang, and U-Turn, rather than two.
—I'm wondering if, beyond Mr. Mime, I've neglected stat-ups overmuch...
—Then there's the matter of the lack of a truly reliable special cannon. Lanturn's special attack isn't that high, same for Cradily, and Mr. Mime readily crumples before physical attacks.
—Also, am I fretting too much about the Lanturn Rain Dance emergency shutoff for enemy rock? If possible, I'm considering Surf/Discharge/Confuse Ray/Signal Beam|Ice Beam for Lanturn...
 
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Cerulean21

Time Traveller
Don't give Gliscor Sandstorm. if you want a Sandstorm, replace the flying Scorpion with Hippo. He's better in Physical Defence anyway, makes a better Starter and can give you a permanent Sandstorm
 

phantom1113

Not a random nub
Don't give Gliscor Sandstorm. if you want a Sandstorm, replace the flying Scorpion with Hippo. He's better in Physical Defence anyway, makes a better Starter and can give you a permanent Sandstorm
or he want to activate sandveil

on to the team: to hard to read try:
pokemon@item
Nature
EV's:
Trait:

-move
-move
-move
-move

Comments/reasoning
 

aipomkong

prophecy fulfilled
The EV formations are assuming that all IV's are 15

This is pointless. You end up with awful EVs, like you have in the first post.

Pretty funny how you've used the most HP evs on the Pokemon that needs it least.

Skarm/Gliscor/Cradily and Drapion should all have 252 HP then you start caring about the other stats.

Sandstorm is a stupid move too. Just get a Tyranitar or Hippowdon. It doesn't waste a moveslot for a pointless move.
 

Skyknight

Active Member
...At least tell me which stat levels I should be aiming for (well, you mentioned HP, but what of the others?). Not "highest possible"; rather the specific numbers. 250? 275? 300? That sort of situation. (Never mind I'm not sure what IV's you do assume for EV charting when not using PC programs. All >24 or so doesn't sound like the sort of thing you can consistently get in-game, even excluding the not-used attack IV...) {scowl} At least, I *think* you're aiming for specific, pre-planned numbers...

In any case, I'm trying to make sure that nothing relevant gets ignored, stat-wise. That's why I'm trying to make sure that everyone gets at least an appreciable amount of HP EV's, along with any defense that can be brought to appreciable levels; I'd like everyone to be able to take several non-vulnerablity hits (five or six would be ideal). I do not plan for this to be a war of attrition...(Granted, part of this is that I want to utterly and completely destroy the 4/252/252 custom, and restore the concept of balance. I don't feel like anything's worth it if you can't invoke a paradigm shift...If you can't, then have you contributed anything of lasting worth?)

I would consider Hippowdon...except I'm determined to keep both Cradily and Gliscor. I'm not interested in having a third ice-vulnerable...I want this to be both effective AND aesthetically pleasing to me. Hippowdon (or rather, its ice vulnerability) misses on the first, Tyranitar on the second (really, the brute just isn't that interesting to me; uninteresting type mix—SIX vulnerabilities?!—and I'm trying to figure out how it's supposed to involve anything like cunning...). {grumble} What does it take to make everything perfect in all ways, not merely in terms of gameplay?

I'll do the format adjustments (well, not the @; the item will be on the same line at least, but how does "at" signify "equip"? Could jargon at least be completely rational?) in the main post. Although I did still have to insert the stats that result from the EV formation (why does everyone leave THOSE out, anyway?)...At least I still have them right after the EV's.
 
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Cerulean21

Time Traveller
As hard as it may sound, IVs for Competitive Pokemon should always be as high as possible, so 29 or more in the relevant Stats and the EVs are not just random numbers, they are there for a reason: to boost the important Stats. Randomly giving Lanturn Speed EVs (exemple based on your first post) is completely and utterly pointless. The point of Competitive play is using pokemon to fulfill a specific Role. Skarmory without Roost as you have it doesn't make a good physical Wall, as it is unable to recover, which is important to a Wall. Skarm does neither need 140 Speed EVs, it's slow, but that doesn't matter, because Speed is not important for what Skarm has to do.

And btw, a Pokemon taking 6 Hits is utopic unless this said Pokemon is named Blissey and is attacked by a Goldeen using Water Gun (loose exemple). You also do not have Roost on Gliscor, which severely hurts it's Staying Power as he can easily be worn down and can't do anything agaist it. There are some useful Guides here on this forum as well as on other Pokemon Forums *cough*Smogon*cough* or on Serebii about EVs, IVs and such, I would highly recommend to read them.

You might think it's irrational to write "@" for the item, but it's standard and makes it a lot easier to read for the poeple who rate your team. This is what people have agreed upon, it's like you write "m" for "metre" or kg for "kilogramme", etc. It's just the way it is.

Sorry, if I sound a little bit harsh, I'm just trieing to help
 

Skyknight

Active Member
I understand the role point well enough. But I don't want my party members to be left doing nothing else in case of an emergency. That's why I always try to have at least two attacks on everyone--especially important if one of those attacks is Normal, Fighting, Ghost, or Psychic (q.v. the Mr. Mime; granted, it's still in a quandary if it's left alone against a Cacturne or Shiftry, but at least it has a chance). Suffice to say I find the occasional pokemon with no attacks, only support abilities (I think I saw a Miltank chart like that once, but I can't remember the particulars...{scowl}), very confusing. One should never have to have even the slightest risk of being in a situation where loss is inevitable no matter what one does. I'm trying to be prepared for every imaginable contingency here.

Besides, is it even POSSIBLE to get a party of all >=29 IV in less than a month (if that), even excluding whichever of physical or special attack won't be used? (Come to think of it, where DO you find all that time?) Most players aren't going to be able to put aside the time and effort to do that. Are such ones somehow unworthy?! I thought we were looking for an environment to encompass ALL players! The weak should not be forced to keep apart from the strong, or vice versa (Really, where is it written that the weak cannot defeat the strong?)...Never mind that I thought the point of competition was comparison of cunning, not strength.

That's why I tried to chart out stats from IV's of 15--assuming a perfectly average (read: acceptable) hatchling. Since that's what the majority of players will be working with, isn't that what we should be taking into account for planning (since they'll be the majority of who we run into on WiFi)?

{sigh} It's just so frustrating...I can't bear to saddle the team with any kind of imperfection--cooperative imperfection, individual imperfection (leaving speed--that is, flinch vulnerability--and either defense unattended counts), aesthetic imperfection, contingency preparation imperfection, ANY. It feels like I'm betraying SOMEONE if I do, whether it be other players (wasting time playing against something suboptimal, or arbitrary exclusion of them), myself (not remaining true to aesthetics--not to mention the risk of wasting the Stealth Rock and Charge Beam TM's), Nintendo (going counter to THEIR aesthetic intent; this is a big part of the reason why I try to never have more than two moves on a pokemon that it can only get by TM...and I didn't exactly do well there for Lanturn or Gliscor...), etc. {cries} What does it take to do nothing wrong at all?!

My apologies for the no-changes-to-formation post...I just need help in figuring out how to get this team worked out (or even A team) without breaching any oaths...{grumbles something about depression}
 

starterlover1

Emperor Coordinator
The "average" pokemon is generally considered 29+ IVs in the needed stats. Considering how you can breed 3 IVs onto a pokemon, it isn't as difficult as it seems.
 
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