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Team O.G. Hipster (VGC '13)

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by jstinftw!, Mar 18, 2013.

  1. jstinftw!

    jstinftw! hontoni


    What is up?

    Continuing my trend from my last team, I've made a team that did not revolve around Trick Room. This team is held in the VGC 2013 format, which means Double Battles, and will primarily be used in the 2013 International Challenge March. It will also be used for any other VGC event I decide to partake in. So let's get started!

    The reason this team is called Team O.G. Hipster is because, ironically, this is my first team that I'm not trying to be a hipster, and use only Pokemon not very many other trainers are using. I usually try to used underused 'mons in VGC, but this time around, I decided to swap some of that pride and put in Pokemon that actually fit, regardless of their used stature (not changing my mind about Legendaries though).

    What You Need to Know Before Rating This Team

    1. This is a Doubles Team, NOT A SINGLES TEAM. The two metagames are drastically different. I also play by VGC Rules, not Smogon Doubles. So, while I will do my best to value any criticism or suggestion, it would much more helpful if you had some sort of idea of what you were talking about.
    2. I am not very fond of Legendaries. I know, I know, the age old argument is an age old. I prefer creative, abstract, non-standard teams, and I have a bit of role playing in me. So Legendary suggestions will be politely turned down. Apologies in advance.
    3. This will be used on an actual cartridge. That said, I do not have access to Hidden Powers, as i do not RNG (more because I am incapable rather than unwilling). Also, IVs are slightly less accurate.
    4. I am not standard. I try to use more creative, outside the box strategies. So I'm not likely going to swtich to a MetaCress core, or a CressTop core. Nor will I be likely to use those Pokemon.

    Behind Team O.G. Hipster
    Spoiler tagged for your convenience

    Oddly, my team started off with Gastrodon.


    I was watching a few streams on Nugget Bridge's Twitch Channel, and there was a grassroots tournament where Gastrodon was really popular, and was really clutch in a few situations. Watching those battles really inspired me to give the little blob a chance. Great typing allowing switch ins to Electric or Water attacks (haha rain), good bulk, decent attacking stats and a usable movepool.

    Now, Gastrodon really hates physical attacks, and Grass types. I also wanted to incorporate Earthquake on my team, so I added the next two Pokemon.


    Rotom-H with Fire Gem would allows me put a huge dent in almost anything, and OHKO through most Occa Berries. Will-O-Wisp helps to cushion against Pokemon that would threaten Gastrodon's weaker defense stat, and overall just helps support the team. Levitate lets it stay in on my Garchomp's Earthquake, while Garchomp itself provides some bulk, as well as Speed and offensive presence.

    My Garchomp was originally a Hone Claws+Dragon Rush Garchomp, and redirecting attacks is always a plus. My team was at a sort of middling Speed, so I decided to add Togekiss.


    in order to let me control a bit of the battle (redirect attacks,Tailwind for Speed, flinch chance with Air Slash, burn chance with Heat Wave) and her special attack is pretty sizable, 2HKOing Hitmontop and other Steel types without Occa Berry. Togekiss's typing also allows her to stay in on Garchomp's Earthquake.

    At this point, I have most of what I need. Most teams need a Steel type, and my go-to Steel type has been Empoleon.


    Pretty good defense stats, no weakness to Fire (a common way of taking down Fire types), and has a way of actually taking out Dragon types with Blizzard without fear of stat dropping. Also Empoleon is a great tech in Trick Room.

    So now I'm left with one more spot, and looking at my team, I'm thinking, how do I take on Cresselia? And I realize I need a Fighting type. I have Togekiss for speed, so I decide on Heracross.


    Every team needs a Fighting type, if just for the sheer power Fighting types present. With Tailwind, Heracross is really fast, and Guts allows it to take Will-O-Wisps and Scald burns no problem. Bug Gem Megahorn completely obliterates Cresselia and Tyranitar.

    So for a while, my team looked like this:


    But after a while, I felt like my team lacked some offense, and Togekiss's Electric weakness was starting to be a problem, as there are so many Electric Gem Thundurus out there. Heracross couldn't really take hits well either, and Overheat started to feel a bit redundant, when Heat Wave would have been good enough had Togekiss just been able to stay in.

    That in mind, I decided to test a few things out (actually this all hit me when I was taking a shower, and I was really nervous testing it out because it could turn out really bad) and I switched out Rotom-H, Togekiss (sadly), and Heracross. To replace them I included Ragepowder Bulky Volcarona, Rotom-C, and Wide Guard Conkeldurr.


    Volcarona was bulky enough to take most of the hits that her teammates would not appreciate (that wasn't a Rock type move of course), while still being able to counter Cresselia, and have a Fire attack. Greater speed is also nice. Wide Guard Conkeldurr offered protection against Rock Slides, Muddy Waters, Blizzards, and Earthquakes, while also protecting against his own partner's Earthquake. And Rotom-C helped me counter other Gastrodon, as well as not being weak to Rock types as well and resisting Water and Electric attacks.

    End result; Team O.G. Hipster! The name is because it's my first team where I didn't try to be an O.G. Hipster, and used more commonly used Pokemon in Garchomp, Gastrodon, and Volcarona to an extent.

    Team Spotlight

    With that all said, time to move on to the actual rate!


    [​IMG]King Squee (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Storm Drain | Bold Nature
    EVs: 252 HP | 108 Def | 28 SAtk | 120 SDef
    Earth Power | Icy Wind | Recover | Scald

    King Squee; I have no clue why but my good friend xSilentOmenx named him
    King Squee. I thought it was cute, so I lived with it. That's how he got his nickname.
    There are two common spreads for Gastrodon, Offensive and Defensive Gastrodon.
    I decided to hit in between the two. While having the defensive EV spread,
    I opted to allow King Squee to be a bit more offensive with the Expert Belt.
    I originally wanted Stockpile > Scald, but Omen forgot, and I decided I could use
    an extra Water move. Gastrodon are the perfect Pokemon to have the move
    Scald anyways, so it worked well. Icy Wind allows for some Speed control, Earth
    Power to attack Steel types (die Heatran), and finally, Recover allows Gastrodon
    to stay alive.

    [​IMG]Cheshire @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Levitate | Modest Nature
    EVs: 46 HP | 252 SAtk | 212 Spd
    Thunderbolt | Leaf Storm | Thunder Wave | Protect

    Look at that grin; how do you not see the Cheshire cat?
    Almost the same spread as my Rotom-Heat. I opted for the Modest Nature to let
    Cheshire hit as hard as possible, as it's Speed is fairly decent in VGC. I chose for
    the switch because I needed a sure-fire way to deal with Rain. Rotom-H did not
    offer that comfort, whereas Rotom-C definitely does. I went with Electric Gem
    Thunderbolt because Leaf Storm on its own is already really hard hitting, and
    Thunderbolt did not have that same effect. So the boost really helps. I wanted
    Will-O-Wisp because it allows my team to take hits better, and certain Pokemon
    like Garchomp, and Excadrill are immune to Thunder Wave anyways, preventing
    it from being able to do its job. Instead of slowing them down, I could instead just
    simply cripple them. And Protect so that it can pretty much stay in an extra turn
    after Leaf Storm, thwarting my opponent's attempt at predicting me.

    [​IMG]Sol (F) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Flame Body | Modest Nature
    EVs: 220 HP | 164 SAtk | 104 SDef | 20 Spd
    Bug Buzz | Heat Wave | Rage Powder | Protect

    Sol is a Norse sun goddess, which fits with Volcarona's Pokedex description.
    The EV Spread optimizes Sol's bulk. I didn't invest much in her Speed or Defense,
    because her base Speed already has her faster than most Pokemon of the
    common Pokemon, and her Speed is unfortunately not what she needs, and
    nothing I do will save her from a Rock Slide, while other moves don't really harm
    her so bad. I opted to use Bug Gem to help her OHKO Cresselia with Bug Buzz,
    while Heat Wave is a great move for spread damage. Ragepowder allows her to let
    Garchomp either set up Swords Dance or KO a Dragon type that would be
    faster. Protect is much needed due to her weakness to Rock, allowing her to stay
    in an extra turn, while also protecting her from Garchomp's Earthquake.

    [​IMG]Radioactiv (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Sand Veil | Jolly Nature
    EVs: 36 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SDef / 156 Spd
    Dragon Claw | Earthquake | Rock Slide | Swords Dance

    Aaron Zheng, 2 time National Champion VGC Winner, has a Garchomp named
    Radioactve. Radioactive a song from Imagine Dragon's Night Vision album,
    and the chorus goes "Welcome to the new age." Seeing as Garchomp is the first
    overused Pokemon I'm using seriously, I figured Aaron's nickname was most
    The spread, however, is more akin to Ray Rizzo's (3 time Worlds VGC Champion)
    bulky Garchomp spread. Garchomp is still a really hard hitter, but now can take a
    Timid Latios's Draco Meteor, which is amazing. I can't remember if Ray Rizzo used
    Swords Dance as well, but after talking with Omen, he convinced me that Swords
    Dance+Dragon Claw was much more beneficial than Hone Claws+Dragon Rush. I
    lose the fancy finesse, but I trade consistency for it.
    I opted to use Sand Veil over Rough Skin because I won't be consistently hit by
    Physical moves, whereas I'm very likely to come up against Sand teams.
    Moves are pretty self-explanatory. Dragon Claw is great STAB plus Anti-dragon,
    Rock Slide is great against the Kamis, Zapdos, Togekiss, and VOLCARONA, and
    Earthquake is another great STAB.

    [​IMG]Edward (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Guts | Adamant Nature
    EVs: 144 HP | 204 Atk | 160 SDef
    Wide Guard | Drain Punch | Ice Punch | Rock Slide

    I watched Hansel and Gretel: Witchhunters last night with my dad, and one of
    the trolls were named Edward. This troll looked amazing similar to Conkeldurr,
    plus had the same characteristic; slow and powerful. So the name stuck.
    I feel that Fighting types are really important in VGC. The sheer power and
    possible coverage they offer is just immensely helpful, especially considering the
    common Pokemon used. I tested out Machamp a while back, but I decided in the
    end that I liked Conkeldurr more for the sheer bulk it offered, not to mention
    being slightly more powerful. Its Speed allows me to have some room to play
    against Trick Room teams, while Guts allows it to soak up status, no problem.
    With this EV spread, Edward can take a Psyshock from Cresselia, as well as live
    through powerful special hits, all while still being able to hit hack hard.
    I love using Ice Gem+Ice Punch. I feel like pretty much no one expects it, and it
    offers some really good coverage. Rock Slide was replaced with Mach Punch for a
    while, but I opted to go back to it when I ended up against a Chandelure and
    couldn't do anything. Volcarona and Thundurus can be annoying too. Drain Punch
    is just really good STAB that helps it survive longer, and KO Pokemon weak to it.
    And finally, something I really enjoy on Edward, and part of the reason I'm
    using it over Scrafty; Wide Guard. Great tech against spread moves, and allows
    him to stay in on Garchomp's Earthquake, while also protecting against Blizzards,
    Muddy Waters, Rock Slides, or Heat Waves.

    [​IMG]North (M) @ [​IMG]
    Trait: Torrent | Modest Nature
    EVs: 220 HP / 108 Def / 176 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Hydro Pump | Grass Knot | Blizzard | Protect

    The oldest member of my team. North is what they called Santa Clause in Rise of
    the Guardian
    and the name just stuck with me for Empoleon. I really like the name.​

    Squidgy (Gastrodon) (F) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 28 SAtk / 120 SDef
    Bold Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Icy Wind
    - Recover
    - Scald

    Cheshire (Rotom-Mow) @ Sitrus Berry
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 46 HP / 252 SAtk / 212 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Leaf Storm
    - Thunder Wave
    - Protect

    Sol (Volcarona) (F) @ Bug Gem
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 220 HP / 164 SAtk / 104 SDef / 20 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Bug Buzz
    - Heat Wave
    - Rage Powder
    - Protect

    Radioactiv (Garchomp) (M) @ Haban Berry
    Trait: Sand Veil
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 36 HP / 116 Atk / 4 Def / 196 SDef / 156 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Swords Dance

    Edward (Conkeldurr) (M) @ Ice Gem
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 144 HP / 204 Atk / 160 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Wide Guard
    - Drain Punch
    - Ice Punch
    - Rock Slide

    North (Empoleon) (M) @ Chople Berry
    Trait: Torrent
    EVs: 220 HP / 108 Def / 176 SAtk / 4 SDef
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Grass Knot
    - Blizzard
    - Protect


    And that is my team! I don't have access to any of the real life tournaments, but I do participate frequently on online Tournaments, and on the GBU, which uses the same ruleset as VGC. I am entering the 2013 International Challenge - March as well.

    Thanks for your help!
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  2. joej m

    joej m Club Double Trouble

    i can do a large rate a bit later. but i really think that you won't have any benefit from black belt.
    the only types it super affects are dragon, ground, fire, water, electric (barely, almost all VGC electric types have levitate or are flying type), and flying. that ontop of complete weakness means you won't do much.
    he is how much WITH black belt you do to a 4 hp latios without blackbelt
    28 SpA Gastrodon Icy Wind vs. 4 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 28-34 (17.94 - 21.79%) -- possible 5HKO
    i believe that makes a possible 4HKO. only possible.
    you will be dead by either energy ball from latios or two draco meteors without a sitrus berry. with the sitrus berry, i believe that you can tank it, then gain enough health back to take another.
    so if you want an offensive gastrodon at the slightest just go for the set they use. if you want an icy wind support mon then use that one w/ leftovers or sitrus berry.

    ACtually screw it ill do a full one now xD

    @garchomp, you will need protect on there. i can see that without one pokemon with a rock move bug gem volcarona might do some pretty bad damage to your team, but i think that conkeldurr is all you need, especially with that sp defense already. so i would go for protect on garchomp instead of that. because with the haban it can take dragon hits... but it can't take ice hits like yache. so you will need to protect.

    @conkeldurr. i find yours to be rather interesting, because you didn't use mach punch. and since your team doesnt contain a priority move, i think it would fit. but because conkeldurr will fight off important threats such as garchomp, hydreigon etc, i think that your set it the best you could do.
    hitmontop came to mind as another wide guard, but that ice punch is probably quite important to the team.

    @rotom. they are not a rain counter to the slightest. while their typing says it, the bulk does not. they can't handle the common ice beams fired off from politoeds, kingdras, and ludicolos. if your team wasn't slow already i would have thought of using ferrothorn, for they are amazing rain counters... but then it would be a very slow team... meaning trick room would help a lot.

    final problem with the team: you are running a fairly slow team. garchomp and volcarona dont even have max speed. you have such little speed control also, making it hard to outspeed them.
    you also have no real direct counter to sand. while you have ice moves, and fighting moves, they will be able to KO you before you have any time to attack at all. i would highly consider putting something like virizion on the team as a rain check. and they are faster.
    run jolly 40hp/ 212 attack/252 speed
    w/ leaf gem it can KO tyranitar and politoed with leaf blade.
  3. jstinftw!

    jstinftw! hontoni

    That's an Expert Belt, hahah. I do see your point though, I just like the extra damage I do with having weaker moves on Gastrodon. It does alright, especially since I can get off a Recover if I need to.

    But I'll test out offensive Gastro I guess. I just really like having Gastro being bulky, while still capable of dishing out some amount of damage.

    Hahaha! Fair enough!

    You know, I really wish I could. Like, I'd love to have Protect on Garchomp, trust me. But I unfortunately find many situations in which I need that Rock Slide or Swords Dance more. Thundurus is still a significant problem, and having Rock Slide on Chomp is definitely a huge help.

    In terms of taking Ice hits, that's why I have Volcarona and Rage Powder! :) Volcarona redirecting attacks really helps. Plus I've been getting better at switches, so as long as I don't make stupid plays, I should be able to pick a good 4 that can take it.

    Yeah, I really considered Mach Punch > Rock Slide, but no. It just doesn't work, and Conkeldurr ends up getting walled by the likes of Chandelure and Volcarona. I haven't really felt the need for Mach Punch anyways, so I'm not really missing anything at least.

    Hahah no Ferro. xD This is trufax, but Rotom has come in handy quite a bit. It's immunity to Earthquake makes it a really good switch in when Garchomp is on the field, not to mention it's Rock resistance really helps with Volcarona. Leaf Storm threatens Rain teams pretty badly, and base 86 really isn't too bad. I do concur about my lack of Speed control though, so I'll test out Thunder Wave for a whiles, and see what that gets me. I haven't really used Will-O-Wisp lately, so having a way of controlling Speed might be better. Rotom are fairly bulky, granted not bulk monsters like Togekiss or anything.

    Rule #2, xD

    Very true about my team's speed, but I've been able to make it work. I used to have Tailwind Togekiss, so that wasn't too big a problem originally. Sand doesn't bother me; it doesn't really DO anything to me bar Tyranitar. I traded Speed for bulk, so that's not my problem. Excadrill is pretty much curbstomped by Wide Guard then OHKOed by Earthquake, plus Gastrodon and Empoleon. Protect, Water/Ice move, I'll be pretty ok.

    Your concern about my speed is noted, however, so I'll look into various ways I can control Speed. I wish Tailwind fit in Volcarona's moveset, but I need everything it has. I'd switch Rotom-C for like, Crobat with Tailwind, but Crobat is weak to Electric, Ice, and Rock, two of which Rotom-C resists.

    Thanks so much! I'll look over everything you said. It was pretty helpful. :)
  4. Nitocrys

    Nitocrys Call of the Mountain

    A vgc team :D
    I'm a bit rusty with rating, but let's see how well i do, lol

    Full rate later, but for now i'll rate the first two pokes, then make my way to the rest, and eventually the entire team.
    Interesting synergy, and it works rather well, minus some flaws.
    Haxorus and latios both have the capability to wreck your team, psychic and energy ball and draco meteor for latios, while earth quake, rockslide, outrage, and a filler for haxorus


    with the ev's you've gave it, it reaches a 133 speed, assuming flawless, how ever, timid chandelure, dispite being 6 below rotom's base speed of 86 (chandelure is 80), outspeeds with 145 speed (max investment in speed) , and then can ko it before it can even do anything. while if you changed rotom to timid, even with the ev set you gave it it would outspeed max chandelure by 1 speed point, allowing it to take down chandelure with thunderbolt or cripple with thunder wave. Rain is very common is VGC now adays,and while it can take down politoad, it cannot take down most rain abusers, due to the fact that in rain they outspeed and can ko with ice beam.
    Sun does the same, but with fire, and sand with rock stab.
    other than that it looks pretty solid, though joey brings up very decent points about it.
    I'd recommend changing it to timid, as even though modest hits harder, it does no good if it can't even get a chance to hit.


    First of all, chandelure wrecks this poke with energy ball. (out of the past 16 wifi battles ive been in, 9 of them had a chandelure, which is why im pointing this out, as it seems to grow more popular)
    After testing this set out, it does rather well, so i'm just gonna point out the flaws.
    if the opponents arent running tr, or pokes that can wreck it, then it can get a recover in. if they do have stuff which wrecks it, then it can't get a chance to recover usually.
    scald and earth power both provide good stab, but this thing is utterly walled by rotom-wash, and most everything which resists/immune to it's moves. I'd recommend a hp grass if you can get it, as it will help it a lot, and will help with taking down other gastrodons.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  5. philzone

    philzone Ready for trumpets

    Nice team there.
    gastrodon: I have a soft spot for gastrodon. it is cool, and rain teams fear it. another option could be muddy water over scald for acc drop

    Rotom-c: Well, I live in Cheshire, and never see that many cats grinning as hard as rotom-c.=]. will-o-wisp would be the good option here, but t-wave can cripple ludicolo and kingdra, who can annoy you alot.

    Volcarona: no real ifs or buts.

    Chomp: i know you've heard it from alot of people, but i would suggest protect over sd, since icy wind cress causes problems. also, you could use the icy wind boost from gastro to handle more threats.

    Conkeldurr: nice set. nothing to worry about, but mach punch is a maybe.

    Empoleon: npthing really
  6. joej m

    joej m Club Double Trouble

    i just had an amazing idea for your team.
    empleon AND conkeldurr can be replaced by lucario. lucario is not only a creative pokemon to use in VGC, but has fairly nice power, fairly nice bulk, the best of the typing from each pokemon, and can get ice punch also. i could try and create a set for you also :)
    after that, you could have another space for another pokemon in there, which will be able to fill some of the gaps in your team.

    EDIT: OMG i just thought of something big.
    you could add a weavile. giving you access to a fake out pokemon, a super fast pokemon to solve the speed problem, AND... beat up :)
    lucario gets justified. you know the really annoying beat up terrakion? same deal here, but not expected. you could get rid of fake out. they think you have fake out, and since it is insanely fast, it will be the first fake out. they can protect because they dont want to get faked out, while you beat up lucario. for weavile i would do a focus sash jolly 252 attack / 252 speed. i can work on a lucario set if you like. it would be very bulky due to the fact that it will be getting an attack boost a lot.
    also, you could run fake out on weavile, but that wouldn't allow space for beat up, night slash, and ice punch AND PROTECT. but once you beat up you can switch out instead of protecting. fake out might help against rain teams and sand teams, making the fast mon not able to attack that turn.

    EDIT: btw... volcarona is quite overused so you kinda have 2 pokemon on there that are overused. if you mean set wise, volcarona rage powder set is not common.

    Last edited: Mar 18, 2013
  7. jstinftw!

    jstinftw! hontoni

    So I didn't explain O.G. Hipster at all, so I did that now. It's in the introduction. xD

    Thanks for the rates guys! It's really insightful, and while I won't follow all the changes suggested, it's at least gotten me to think about those situations, and figure out if I have a strategy against it. All your help was really helpful, guys! :)

    So changes I've decided on:

    1. Play around with Offensive Gastrodon. Maybe I won't miss it's bulk?
    2. I'll try out Muddy Water over Scald on Gastro as well. Not sure how that'll blow over, but we'll see.
    3. Thunder Wave stays on Rotom. I hardly used Will-O-Wisp anyways, and it's helpful against Trick Room if I can get over the parachance.
    4. Due to popular demand; Protect on Garchomp. I'll drop SD and try it out, although I may still go back to Swords Dance. SD was really clutch in some battles, so I'm not very fond of losing it.

    I've tried out Lucario before, and it's frailty really gets to me, especially when I'm counting on switch ins and such. Switch in Luke to take a Draco, maybe survive, but it's most likely not going to be able to outspeed whatever Draco'd it, and it'll get KO'd anyways. Losing Empoleon would also be really difficult as well, as it loses me a Dragon resist that can actually counter Dragons, and a Trick Room abuser. It's a really cool idea, but I don't think it'll fit in my team atm. Thank you though! Epic mess up there, Ludicolo > Lucario. XD

    As for the overused part, I was referring to the Legendary part haha. And as it is, my main goal is not to turn into a standard team person. I've accepted using more common Pokemon if I need to, but having a full standard team is my main problem.

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