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Team Rocket Discussion

  • Thread starter Deleted member 11515
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Chaos Shadow

Well-Known Member
Yes, the Lake as well. I remembered that they were involved there, but I haven't played GSC in... a very long time. I'd forgotten the other circumstances surrounding the Lake.
 

Maetch

Well-Known Member
Yes, the Lake as well. I remembered that they were involved there, but I haven't played GSC in... a very long time. I'd forgotten the other circumstances surrounding the Lake.

Basically, they were using a radio device hidden in Ecruteak to induce evolution in the Lake's Magikarp (the Rocket Warehouse in FR/LG makes a reference to it on a PC). One Rocket states that people will pay good money for a Gyarados, so they've got monetary motivation behind the experiment as well. Plus, with all the people rushing to the Lake to see the action, the Rockets took over the gatehouse and turned it into a pay-toll so that they could extort more money from everyone.

This is where the player comes in. The activity causes the fabled Red Gyarados to appear, and you catch/KO it. Having watched the antics, Lance talks you into infiltrating the Rocket's base and shutting down the signal. They get run out of town, and the player moves on.
 

zlxq3000

Master Collector
Because it feels like it cheapens them, really. Team Rocket is my favorite of the teams in part because Giovanni was running things based entirely on the power of his group and himself, not relying on legendary Pokemon to get the job done. The Evil-Team-Goes-After-Legendary-Can-You-Stop-Them? trope is getting rather old, and I'd rather not see Team Rocket retconned into pursuing a legendary in hopes of gaining power.

And, like I said, they don't seem organized enough. Their entire purpose in Johto was to snag a radio tower and make desperate called to Giovanni to bring him back and re-organize their group. They were doing little schemes on the side, like the stuff at Slowpoke Well, following the old adage of how Team Rocket functioned to use Pokemon to the sole benefit of the Team Rocket members. Going after a legendary would require more organization, and would require a stable, absolute leader to give those orders. Nothing from my memory of GSC suggests that the executives were in any position to do so (after all, it was their idea to try and call Giovanni, which suggests that they needed him for something, be it organization or stability or just having a true tactical leader at their head again).

Well the difference is that the other teams' overall goal was to summon some kind of insanely powerful pokemon. That was their sole purpose. Team Rocket, in obtaining Mewtwo or the Hoenn legendaries, would only be using them as a means to obtain power. They wouldn't see them as a purpose, but as tools to be used to further their own agenda, and that is where they'd differ from the boring old plot device that's been rehashed over the past two generations.

And their goal wasn't taking the radio tower; their goal in Johto was the human-induced evolution of pokemon. They only went to the Radio Tower after you defeated them at the Lake of Rage, and I'm almost positive that the head executive was the only one who knew that the true reason was to call out to Giovanni; I'm pretty sure that the other Rockets believed that they were going to use the Tower's radio waves to cause sporadic human-induced evolutions throughout Johto and Kanto. And if that wasn't how the takeover of the tower was perceived, they could easily alter that in the remakes.
 

Maetch

Well-Known Member
Well the difference is that the other teams' overall goal was to summon some kind of insanely powerful pokemon. That was their sole purpose. Team Rocket, in obtaining Mewtwo or the Hoenn legendaries, would only be using them as a means to obtain power. They wouldn't see them as a purpose, but as tools to be used to further their own agenda, and that is where they'd differ from the boring old plot device that's been rehashed over the past two generations.

Team Rocket only wants MONEY! That's it, nothing else! They don't need to resort to capturing Legends when they can get WAY more money from lots of lesser Pokemon.

Why go through all the trouble to capture a Legend, anyway? It takes time, money, and effort, three things that the current Team Rocket has none of. I mean, look how much Cyrus went through in Platinum to arrange for the capture of Dialga and Palkia. He had to convince his Galactic Grunts to believe he was doing it for them (though it was really only for himself), establish front companies to build funds, research the Lake Trio and their legends to ensure he was doing things right, etc. In Johto, given the obvious expenses of their hideout and the evolution machine (plus lesser things like Grunt pay and Pokemon rentals), I'll bet Team Rocket's barely breaking even with the money made from all those Slowpoketails and Gyarados.

And their goal wasn't taking the radio tower; their goal in Johto was the human-induced evolution of pokemon. They only went to the Radio Tower after you defeated them at the Lake of Rage, and I'm almost positive that the head executive was the only one who knew that the true reason was to call out to Giovanni; I'm pretty sure that the other Rockets believed that they were going to use the Tower's radio waves to cause sporadic human-induced evolutions throughout Johto and Kanto. And if that wasn't how the takeover of the tower was perceived, they could easily alter that in the remakes.

The Giovanni message was broadcasting all throughout Johto. No way that the rest of the team wouldn't be aware of it. The evolution project was a major reason, but it still came down solely to gain Gio's favor and get him to come back.
 
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natopotato22

Cellar Door
They're probably gonna tick us all of when we're about to get somewhere and our pokes are dieing and then they wanna fight us and they think it's fair even though I just fought off everyone up to there.
 

zlxq3000

Master Collector
Team Rocket only wants MONEY! That's it, nothing else! They don't need to resort to capturing Legends when they can get WAY more money from lots of lesser Pokemon.

Yes, and money=power, correct? So having a powerful pokemon would help them gain lots of money, either through fear of them using it or through its sale. While your claim of selling lots of lesser pokemon does make sense, the pokemon that they do sell do seem to be very rare pokemon (the exception being the Slowpoke Tails stuff, which is when they're kind of struggling; I believe that is only because they're not native to the Johto region, and so they don't have as much influence there as they did in Kanto, where they'd been for years before Red defeated them), so finding and capturing a Rayquaza for the sole intent of selling it to the highest bidder so that they can obtain the funds to rebuild their criminal empire isn't exactly a stupid idea.

Why go through all the trouble to capture a Legend, anyway? It takes time, money, and effort, three things that the current Team Rocket has none of. I mean, look how much Cyrus went through in Platinum to arrange for the capture of Dialga and Palkia. He had to convince his Galactic Grunts to believe he was doing it for them (though it was really only for himself), establish front companies to build funds, research the Lake Trio and their legends to ensure he was doing things right, etc. In Johto, given the obvious expenses of their hideout and the evolution machine (plus lesser things like Grunt pay and Pokemon rentals), I'll bet Team Rocket's barely breaking even with the money made from all those Slowpoketails and Gyarados.

Well I assume that the Johto Team Rocket is lacking in effort because they don't believe in their leader. I mean, here's a guy who, after one failure, runs off to call to a guy who abandoned them years ago. Doesn't seem like a very great leader to me. The Team Rocket I'm talking about is post-Radio Tower, led by a new executive who isn't as weak as the one who gave up the Team after being beaten. A strong leader would be greatly respected by Rocket grunts, especially after a weak leader with garbage plans to make petty cash. And who's to say that they didn't already have the equipment needed to perform all the tasks I mentioned before they were shut down, and no one ever knew about them? The Cerulean Rocket Base could've been there three years ago, as could have the sub-basements of the Celadon Game Corner. They wouldn't have needed funding for any of those things, and even if they did, does it matter? It's a kid's video game; villains can do pretty much anything as long as it moves the story along. They wouldn't have to explain how they managed to fund things; if that was the case, then the villains of the Gamecube games would make a LOT more sense to me.

The Giovanni message was broadcasting all throughout Johto. No way that the rest of the team wouldn't be aware of it. The evolution project was a major reason, but it still came down solely to gain Gio's favor and get him to come back.

...I guess, but I still believe that they thought that it was majorly for the evolution project...

Comments in bold.
 

Maetch

Well-Known Member
Basically, the main game should stick with the weak, disorganized Team Rocket, because that's what they are without Giovanni. End of argument.

Your idea could work in a spin-off game, though, something along the lines of Colosseum or XD (possibly without the Shadow Pokemon, but still on a console Pokemon RPG). Besides, knowing Nintendo, they'll probably do something like that so they can milk more cash off those who want to get Mewtwo. Why do you think they made Ho-Oh and Lugia catchable in the Gamecube games?
 
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zlxq3000

Master Collector
Basically, the main game should stick with the weak, disorganized Team Rocket, because that's what they are without Giovanni. End of argument.

Your idea could work in a spin-off game, though, something along the lines of Colosseum or XD (possibly without the Shadow Pokemon, but still on a console Pokemon RPG). Besides, knowing Nintendo, they'll probably do something like that so they can milk more cash off those who want to get Mewtwo. Why do you think they made Ho-Oh and Lugia catchable in the Gamecube games?

Because they realized that not everyone can make it to Nintendo events, and those were the only way to make them accessible in the third generation besides cheating?

They're not gonna do a spin-off game. Their spin-offs aren't incredibly high sellers, and they wouldn't make a game to get a pokemon that's already accessible by other means.

And why couldn't Team Rocket be organized under a leader other than Giovanni? In my mind, the guy who leads them up to the Radio Tower only has the evolution plan as his way of doing anything, since it was what he was instructed by Giovanni, who he is loyal to, and when that fails, he realizes that he has no idea what he's doing, and calls out to Giovanni to ask for his help because he's weak. The rest of Team Rocket doesn't really respect him, but lets him be the leader because he's got the strongest pokemon or seniority or whatever, and so they're a bit more disorganized and stupid, but when he gives up on the organization, another executive tells everyone to shut up and pay attention, because now Team Rocket will not only make money, but they will be greater and more powerful than ever before. That'd get the rest of the team's attention and make them want to follow him. It'd also be a reason for them to get harder; this time, they're not effing around. They're on a damned mission to infect the world with devastation, yadda yadda, and nothing, not even a peppy twelve-year-old champion with a dream, will stop them.
 

Maetch

Well-Known Member
They're not gonna do a spin-off game. Their spin-offs aren't incredibly high sellers, and they wouldn't make a game to get a pokemon that's already accessible by other means.

What other means? So far in Gen IV, Pal Park is the only way to get Mewtwo, and it's obvious with the DSi that Nintendo's trying to end the GBA era. And given the abysmally high amount of Legends that's gonna be in HG/SS already, I don't want to see Mewtwo get overshadowed by everybody else, 'cause that's what's gonna happen if he appears. To me, given his unique backstory, Mewtwo deserves a central role in a game (like Lugia did in XD), away from the competition of the other Legends. Besides, poor sales never stopped Nintendo before. If they want another XD, they'll make it, regardless of the fan response.
 
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zlxq3000

Master Collector
What other means? So far in Gen IV, Pal Park is the only way to get Mewtwo, and it's obvious with the DSi that Nintendo's trying to end the GBA era. And given the abysmally high amount of Legends that's gonna be in HG/SS already, I don't want to see Mewtwo get overshadowed by everybody else, 'cause that's what's gonna happen if he appears. To me, given his unique backstory, Mewtwo deserves a central role in a game (like Lugia did in XD), away from the competition of the other Legends. Besides, poor sales never stopped Nintendo before. If they want another XD, they'll make it, regardless of the fan response.

I'm pretty sure I saw somewhere on this forum that someone said that Genius Sonority hasn't mentioned anything about making anything Pokemon-related (they're the ones who made Colo/XD), plus there's the whole thing of them saying that they aren't working on any main core titles for the Wii after PBR (this new Wiiware thing doesn't count; it's just a way for them to make those who want an action-based Pokemon game happy). Besides, I don't think that people would be as happy with a Mewtwo-based side game; I actually did suggest a number of times that, if they were to make a sequel to XD, it should revolve around Cipher creating Mewtwo, and EVERYONE in the thread said that it was a terrible idea (although they wanted the game to feature Cipher capturing one of the Hoenn legendaries, all of the Hoenn legendaries, Darkrai, and even Celebi, so...).

Regardless, considering that, as you said, Nintendo's trying to slowly pull us away from the DS and make us all buy the DSi, why would they make a whole new game just for one pokemon? They did it with Ranger for something that wasn't available without it (something that they could amend by making Manaphy('s Egg) available somewhere in HGSS (which it very well could be, given Elm's obsession with eggs and all), and since Mewtwo is so important to the core games, why not have it in one of them? I mean, in DPPt, there are only 18 pokemon or so that are unavailable without the Pal Park; how hard could it be for them to put them into these two games?
 

Competitive5910

Codename:ArseusEater
That's exactly what I thought. You could team up with Silver just as you teamed up with Barry on Mt. Coronet. Then there could be a dramatic scene afterwards where Giovanni says something like "blah blah blah, my son..." and then he goes back to Plotholetopia after you defeat him.

I also think that it would be cool if they tied Team Rocket into Lugia and Ho-Oh. Even if they're just trying to earn money, they could still try to sell the two legends, couldn't they? The three beasts could somehow be tied into the storyline as well.

What if giovanni/silver caught ho-oh AND lugia somehow and you battled him with them on his team. But then he releases them for some reason and then you can catch them.... but no hopes. TR is going to stay the same... Perhaps the battle where you meet Lance's Dragonite is going to be a double battle, but nothing more except small subplots in new areas
 

Krake

Flabebe's Kids
I think that there should be a double battle in Mahogany where you try to enter the power room but the admins stop you. It would be you and Lance vs. the Admins.
 
What if giovanni/silver caught ho-oh AND lugia somehow and you battled him with them on his team. But then he releases them for some reason and then you can catch them.... but no hopes. TR is going to stay the same... Perhaps the battle where you meet Lance's Dragonite is going to be a double battle, but nothing more except small subplots in new areas

Somehow, I don't think that would happen...
Zapmolcuno has more a chance of appearing than Game freak using your story ideas.
 
YEah, i agree. I think Galactic have done a better job than Rocket.

I think that Team Rocket are really going to have to step up their game, Team Galactic are so far the evilest Pokemon Team up to date:

Team Rocket:
Cut off Slowpoke Tails
Forced Magikarp to evolve, at Lake of Rage
Controlled Goldenrod Radio Tower.
Stole Power Plant equipement.

Team Galactic:
Attacked Lucas/Dawn and Prof. Rowan at Jubilife City
Tried to steal honey from the honey man in Floroama Meadow
Stole energy from the Valley Windworks
Stole a Clefairy from Cycle Shop Owner, and stole a Buneary from a boy.
Stole Dawn/Lucas's Pokedex
Blew up the Great Marsh (Platinum)
Blew up Lake Valor
Kidnapped Uxie, Azelf and Mesprit
Emitted a signal that disturbed Pokemon on Iron Island.
Attack Rowan and Lucas/Dawn at Lake Verity
Attacked Barry at Lake Acuity
Summoned Dialga (Diamond) and Palkia (Pearl), and disturbed Giratina (Platinum)
Tried to make Stark Mountain erupt, (Platinum)

So in comparisson, they were a bit naughtier compared to Team Rocket.
 

Tyranitar trainer

Back for a bit
I think that Team Rocket are really going to have to step up their game, Team Galactic are so far the evilest Pokemon Team up to date:

Team Rocket:
Cut off Slowpoke Tails
Forced Magikarp to evolve, at Lake of Rage
Controlled Goldenrod Radio Tower.
Stole Power Plant equipement.

Team Galactic:
Attacked Lucas/Dawn and Prof. Rowan at Jubilife City
Tried to steal honey from the honey man in Floroama Meadow
Stole energy from the Valley Windworks
Stole a Clefairy from Cycle Shop Owner, and stole a Buneary from a boy.
Stole Dawn/Lucas's Pokedex
Blew up the Great Marsh (Platinum)
Blew up Lake Valor
Kidnapped Uxie, Azelf and Mesprit
Emitted a signal that disturbed Pokemon on Iron Island.
Attack Rowan and Lucas/Dawn at Lake Verity
Attacked Barry at Lake Acuity
Summoned Dialga (Diamond) and Palkia (Pearl), and disturbed Giratina (Platinum)
Tried to make Stark Mountain erupt, (Platinum)

So in comparisson, they were a bit naughtier compared to Team Rocket.

I agree totally
There needs to be some ind of story to the legends involving TR
 

Alloute

Not Banned
Team Rocket will most likely remain the same; weak but stylish.

I do not think we can expect too many changes from the main storyline. Team Rocket will probably have a bigger role AFTER the Elite Four, as they did in Leaf Green and Fire Red.
 
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